hi all
i work for a small home based business that id just starting out. in the mobile electronic industry.
well we pretty much do installs of car alarms, remote starts, amps, subs, all the bling bling. and custome fiberglass enclosures.
i use to read on basic electronics and audio amplifiers but they where A/b class amplifiers never class d.
well sometime customers leave theyr burnt out amps when they purchase a new one from us. but since i have a small interest in electronics, i want to see if i can fix them maybe use all the parts and make a supper amplifier, lol, well, right now im stuck at the point that the amps are class d, and the pc boards are double sided wich makes it very dificult to see where the tracs are going to when you have big caps and coils covering them and every thing is so tight toghether.
im sure i can fix them if i can find the shematics for them,
so i need schematics, i have serched the net and forums with no luck on these amps.
this is what i have.
first one is a tsunamy DB1100D, i figured out that the power supply side works fine and its just the amplifier side of the amp thats inop. but since is a class d and double sided pcboard, i cant figure out whats wrong with the amp.
so if any one has a schematic for that amp so i can compleatly fix it. i woul a apreatiate it.
i also have an mtx thunder 6500D. that has a surface mount some thing that seems like it getting ready to fail and two mosfets that are damaged on the power supply i think,
a schematic for that one as well please.
one more i have a planet audio VX2200D
that has some thing wired going on, it had some power supply mosfets burnt out. so i order them and replaced them, so i hock the amp up to my power supply 13v 2amp max.. and the amp shuts down the power supply. with out appling power to the remote. and slowly but surelly it burnt the mosfets that i had replaced.
if any one could provide me with schematics, i would be greatly appritiated.
ps: i have search the internet for the schematics, and have also contacte some of the manufacturer and the say the dont give out their schematics.
thanks in advance for any help.
laters
i work for a small home based business that id just starting out. in the mobile electronic industry.
well we pretty much do installs of car alarms, remote starts, amps, subs, all the bling bling. and custome fiberglass enclosures.
i use to read on basic electronics and audio amplifiers but they where A/b class amplifiers never class d.
well sometime customers leave theyr burnt out amps when they purchase a new one from us. but since i have a small interest in electronics, i want to see if i can fix them maybe use all the parts and make a supper amplifier, lol, well, right now im stuck at the point that the amps are class d, and the pc boards are double sided wich makes it very dificult to see where the tracs are going to when you have big caps and coils covering them and every thing is so tight toghether.
im sure i can fix them if i can find the shematics for them,
so i need schematics, i have serched the net and forums with no luck on these amps.
this is what i have.
first one is a tsunamy DB1100D, i figured out that the power supply side works fine and its just the amplifier side of the amp thats inop. but since is a class d and double sided pcboard, i cant figure out whats wrong with the amp.
so if any one has a schematic for that amp so i can compleatly fix it. i woul a apreatiate it.
i also have an mtx thunder 6500D. that has a surface mount some thing that seems like it getting ready to fail and two mosfets that are damaged on the power supply i think,
a schematic for that one as well please.
one more i have a planet audio VX2200D
that has some thing wired going on, it had some power supply mosfets burnt out. so i order them and replaced them, so i hock the amp up to my power supply 13v 2amp max.. and the amp shuts down the power supply. with out appling power to the remote. and slowly but surelly it burnt the mosfets that i had replaced.
if any one could provide me with schematics, i would be greatly appritiated.
ps: i have search the internet for the schematics, and have also contacte some of the manufacturer and the say the dont give out their schematics.
thanks in advance for any help.
laters
Best thing I could reccomend, is buy the amplifier repair guide, which will show you how to test any/all amplifiers once you know how they function. You probably are not going to find schematics for the amps, if you already went to the manufacturers, only thing I could say is learn how they work, they're not all that different. get some tools, and have at it. www.bcae1.com is the site where you can get the amp repair guide.
It's almost impossible to get schematics for car amplifiers except for the Japanese amplifiers (Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony...). Rockford is the only non-Japanese manufacturer that I know that provides schematics and they only provide schematics for obsolete models.
The class D amplifiers can be tough. Luckily, it seems like there are only a handful of manufacturers producing amps. You will see similar designs in many different amplifiers. After you learn the basics and get a little experience, it gets easier. The faults are typically in the output or driver stages. You'll also see a lot of broken and shorted inductors.
Some of the class D amps use proprietary modules that are potted in epoxy or covered in epoxy which makes troubleshooting difficult. If the module is defective, there's no way to repair the amp because replacements are simply are not available. For those amps, you have to send them back to the manufacturer.
Of the MTX class Ds I've seen (not many), they've been relatively easy to repair. The power supply and output sections have been simple repairs. Bad op-amps have been a problem as well as bad solder connections on the small transformer in the audio section.
The class D amplifiers can be tough. Luckily, it seems like there are only a handful of manufacturers producing amps. You will see similar designs in many different amplifiers. After you learn the basics and get a little experience, it gets easier. The faults are typically in the output or driver stages. You'll also see a lot of broken and shorted inductors.
Some of the class D amps use proprietary modules that are potted in epoxy or covered in epoxy which makes troubleshooting difficult. If the module is defective, there's no way to repair the amp because replacements are simply are not available. For those amps, you have to send them back to the manufacturer.
Of the MTX class Ds I've seen (not many), they've been relatively easy to repair. The power supply and output sections have been simple repairs. Bad op-amps have been a problem as well as bad solder connections on the small transformer in the audio section.
thanks for the replies. i have been doing allot of reading on the class d amps and im getting a better understanding of them.
thanks for the link!.
Perry Babin your right about the modules covered in epoxy. that's how the tsunami is.
im still waiting for the mosfets for the mtx to get here. what gets me on that amp is that there's one surface mount resistor the size of a flee and i cant read the value of it, any trick on that?, i don't think ill be even able to desolder it from where its at, but its most definitely fried and in need of replacement.
im a keep at it.
laters
thanks for the link!.
Perry Babin your right about the modules covered in epoxy. that's how the tsunami is.
im still waiting for the mosfets for the mtx to get here. what gets me on that amp is that there's one surface mount resistor the size of a flee and i cant read the value of it, any trick on that?, i don't think ill be even able to desolder it from where its at, but its most definitely fried and in need of replacement.
im a keep at it.
laters
If the resistor is burned, there may be no way to read it. Resistors that are not burned are usually easy to read with a lighted magnifier. If they're covered in soot (from FETs burning), try cleaning it with acetone and a cotton swab. Remember that acetone is very flammable. Use it in an area with plenty of ventilation and don't solder on it until your 100% sure that all of the acetone has evaporated.
To unsolder the resistor, apply new solder to both ends of the resistor. If the resistor does not release when applying solder to the it, try angling the iron so that the tip makes contact with both ends. It should then slide off with very little force. Be sure not to keep heat on it for more than about 2-3 seconds. There is very little copper to sink the heat and keeping the heat on the component for more than ~3 seconds can cause the copper to delaminate (depending on the quality of the board how hot your iron is).
If you have trouble getting your iron on it, you may have to remove surrounding components. If any of the large capacitors have to come out, there are a few things you need to know to remove them without damaging the board.
If the burned resistor is a gate resistor for one of the paralleled FETs, look at the other FET to see what value it's using. If there is no paralleled component, you'll need to find another similar amp. All I have here is a 1501D. I don't know if it's similar enough to yours to help.
When resoldering the components, it's recommended that you use silver bearing solder. Radio Shack has some (64-035).
To unsolder the resistor, apply new solder to both ends of the resistor. If the resistor does not release when applying solder to the it, try angling the iron so that the tip makes contact with both ends. It should then slide off with very little force. Be sure not to keep heat on it for more than about 2-3 seconds. There is very little copper to sink the heat and keeping the heat on the component for more than ~3 seconds can cause the copper to delaminate (depending on the quality of the board how hot your iron is).
If you have trouble getting your iron on it, you may have to remove surrounding components. If any of the large capacitors have to come out, there are a few things you need to know to remove them without damaging the board.
If the burned resistor is a gate resistor for one of the paralleled FETs, look at the other FET to see what value it's using. If there is no paralleled component, you'll need to find another similar amp. All I have here is a 1501D. I don't know if it's similar enough to yours to help.
When resoldering the components, it's recommended that you use silver bearing solder. Radio Shack has some (64-035).
hi again.
i know im bringing this thread from the dead but i just didnt feel the need to start a new thread.
well i have this Thunder 6500d wich you can find pics here of the gutshere of the guts
i can take better pics if nessesary.
the problem is i belive on the power supply. i have replaced the burnt fets. but there are some smaller components that seemed burnt as well as stated on on of the above replyes i had removed the R628 resistor since it was burnt i trying measuring the resistance and it was very low, but im asuming that it was that low as a side effect to it over heating and burnig. i also removed a C630 wich i belive its a capacitor. but cant realy read the value of it. but it reads some thing like T1n0J 100 its yellow in color and rectangular chaped its in line with the gate lead of the switching fet. now i would like to replace these as well as the resistor that i removed.
i realy need a schematic. for this amp. i have the basic knowledge on class D, class A/B and class A amp but not enogh know how to fix this amp with out the proper value to these components. or what each little circuits on this amp is.
its a nice amp and i would like to learn how to fix it or if i could get some help from you guys on how to get this amp fixed. i dont personaly need it, but it would be a nice learning experiance for me.
i have some other amps laying around that i could borrow parts from if needed. or i can just buy the parts from mouser like i have done in the past.
any help will do.
but i just realy need a schematic to get the ball rolling on this.
thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
PS: if any one feel like fixing this for me in exange for a profesionaly built audio enlosure that will fit your needs let me know. we can figure something out.
laters
i know im bringing this thread from the dead but i just didnt feel the need to start a new thread.
well i have this Thunder 6500d wich you can find pics here of the gutshere of the guts
i can take better pics if nessesary.
the problem is i belive on the power supply. i have replaced the burnt fets. but there are some smaller components that seemed burnt as well as stated on on of the above replyes i had removed the R628 resistor since it was burnt i trying measuring the resistance and it was very low, but im asuming that it was that low as a side effect to it over heating and burnig. i also removed a C630 wich i belive its a capacitor. but cant realy read the value of it. but it reads some thing like T1n0J 100 its yellow in color and rectangular chaped its in line with the gate lead of the switching fet. now i would like to replace these as well as the resistor that i removed.
i realy need a schematic. for this amp. i have the basic knowledge on class D, class A/B and class A amp but not enogh know how to fix this amp with out the proper value to these components. or what each little circuits on this amp is.
its a nice amp and i would like to learn how to fix it or if i could get some help from you guys on how to get this amp fixed. i dont personaly need it, but it would be a nice learning experiance for me.
i have some other amps laying around that i could borrow parts from if needed. or i can just buy the parts from mouser like i have done in the past.
any help will do.
but i just realy need a schematic to get the ball rolling on this.
thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
PS: if any one feel like fixing this for me in exange for a profesionaly built audio enlosure that will fit your needs let me know. we can figure something out.
laters
Schematics or connection diagramm
Hello my name is Jörg and I read the threat and the differnt agrements. I think the link to www.bcae1.com is good, but it is not easy to understand when your english is not so good. I´m from germany and I have some difficults to understand the text. The same with this thread. Not everthing that was written I understood. But the main reason I think is to get some schematics or connection diagrams, because than you can look at the circuit and know which construction units are build in the amplifier. Than you have the chance to download the datasheet from some construction units and you know how the work.
I got here a connection diagramm for a Alpine 3566. And it was great. I have some other connection diagram from Denon, Axton,Magnat, Alpine and AMA,JBL, Blaupunkt. SO everytime I look for new diagramms to collect them.
Now I have to amplifiers they didn´t work. A Eyebrid 4Y80 and a helix. And the errors are very difficulty for me.
By the helix I need a connection Diagramm, because I didn´t know what I can do to find the error. the same is fpr the eyebrid.
Regards Jörg
Hello my name is Jörg and I read the threat and the differnt agrements. I think the link to www.bcae1.com is good, but it is not easy to understand when your english is not so good. I´m from germany and I have some difficults to understand the text. The same with this thread. Not everthing that was written I understood. But the main reason I think is to get some schematics or connection diagrams, because than you can look at the circuit and know which construction units are build in the amplifier. Than you have the chance to download the datasheet from some construction units and you know how the work.
I got here a connection diagramm for a Alpine 3566. And it was great. I have some other connection diagram from Denon, Axton,Magnat, Alpine and AMA,JBL, Blaupunkt. SO everytime I look for new diagramms to collect them.
Now I have to amplifiers they didn´t work. A Eyebrid 4Y80 and a helix. And the errors are very difficulty for me.
By the helix I need a connection Diagramm, because I didn´t know what I can do to find the error. the same is fpr the eyebrid.
Regards Jörg
You should start new threads instead of using old threads.
The resistor is 47.5 ohms.
Check R625 and R626. Also check the two PZTA56 transistors just above the two resistors.
The cap should be a 1 nanoFarad 100 volt.
You won't find a schematic.
Did the output transistors survive? If not, what were the original part numbers?
The resistor is 47.5 ohms.
Check R625 and R626. Also check the two PZTA56 transistors just above the two resistors.
The cap should be a 1 nanoFarad 100 volt.
You won't find a schematic.
Did the output transistors survive? If not, what were the original part numbers?
For Perry Babin
Sorry Perry, do you mean me?
What do you want to say with this?
"The resistor is 47.5 ohms.
Check R625 and R626. Also check the two PZTA56 transistors just above the two resistors.
The cap should be a 1 nanoFarad 100 volt."
for which topic or thread it goes?
and what is the meaning of this?
"You should start new threads instead of using old threads".
I only say something to the connection diagramms and this was my opinion how difficult it is to repair some amplifier without a diagramm.
Regards Jörg
Sorry Perry, do you mean me?
What do you want to say with this?
"The resistor is 47.5 ohms.
Check R625 and R626. Also check the two PZTA56 transistors just above the two resistors.
The cap should be a 1 nanoFarad 100 volt."
for which topic or thread it goes?
and what is the meaning of this?
"You should start new threads instead of using old threads".
I only say something to the connection diagramms and this was my opinion how difficult it is to repair some amplifier without a diagramm.
Regards Jörg
Hi JoergST,
The reply was to the questions about the 6500D from boricuaso. You replied between the time I started my reply and the time I posted it.
If you have a question about something, you should start a new thread instead of adding to an old thread. It's less confusing and you're more likely to get a relavant reply. It also prevents attention being drawn away from the original poster's question.
I didn't have anything on the eyebrid amp. It may be similar to a schematic I have but I'd need to see the inside to know for sure. If you email me a clear photo of the internals, I'll see if I have something.
The reply was to the questions about the 6500D from boricuaso. You replied between the time I started my reply and the time I posted it.
If you have a question about something, you should start a new thread instead of adding to an old thread. It's less confusing and you're more likely to get a relavant reply. It also prevents attention being drawn away from the original poster's question.
I didn't have anything on the eyebrid amp. It may be similar to a schematic I have but I'd need to see the inside to know for sure. If you email me a clear photo of the internals, I'll see if I have something.
Perry Babin said:
thanks for the great info.
the two transistors youre talking about on this amp are labeled as D239 A5Gand they look good,
i did had to replace the fet 604 and fet 605 since they were fried.
here are some images of the parts that were burned and replace and not replaced. and the ones youre talking about as well.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
are these the output fets or the power supply fets.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
i was thinking these where the output fets wich i had to replace
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
let me know if you see something out of place that i havent spoted.
thanks again for the help i will be replacing the missing parts soon.
For the highest reliability, you need to replace all 4 transistors in the supply (FET601-604).
The transistors that you said are labeled are labeled as D239 A5G are PZTA56. The D239 is a production code. You can't simply look at them to determine whether they're good or not. You'll have to check them with a meter. The first and third legs are tied together with a 10 ohm resistor so the only thing you can check is to make sure that they're not shorted between the second and third legs. If you read more than 11 ohms for the resistors, replace them.
The transistors that you said are labeled are labeled as D239 A5G are PZTA56. The D239 is a production code. You can't simply look at them to determine whether they're good or not. You'll have to check them with a meter. The first and third legs are tied together with a 10 ohm resistor so the only thing you can check is to make sure that they're not shorted between the second and third legs. If you read more than 11 ohms for the resistors, replace them.
Perry Babin said:
i will most defenetly check and replace them if nessesary ill also place another order of the 75339p fets to make sure.
if there is anything ealse i should look in to let me know.
ill post in a week or so the results after i have replaced the parts
thanks allot for all your help.
laters
hi again.
to
Perry Babin if he reads this.
i checked the PZTA56 2 and 3 leg resistance and i get a reading in the Mohms range, is that ok?
and R625 and R626. read at 10.1ohms.
im looking for the replacement parts off of other stuff and amps i have laying around.
is there anything eals i should look into to so once i replace the other components the thing wont fry. i know is difficult to tell. but any help from you is great help. thanks.
to
Perry Babin if he reads this.
i checked the PZTA56 2 and 3 leg resistance and i get a reading in the Mohms range, is that ok?
and R625 and R626. read at 10.1ohms.
im looking for the replacement parts off of other stuff and amps i have laying around.
is there anything eals i should look into to so once i replace the other components the thing wont fry. i know is difficult to tell. but any help from you is great help. thanks.
It looks like the transistors and the resistors are OK.
If the output transistors were not shorted, the amp should work when powered up.
When you initially power it up, do so through a current limiter or a small fuse (10 amps or less). Have the transistors clamped to the heatsink. This will prevent them from overheating and being damaged if there are more problem.
I've seen the TL494 IC fail so that could still be a problem but it's unlikely because the 56s didn't fail. When the 56s fail, the 494 is more likely to be damaged.
If the output transistors were not shorted, the amp should work when powered up.
When you initially power it up, do so through a current limiter or a small fuse (10 amps or less). Have the transistors clamped to the heatsink. This will prevent them from overheating and being damaged if there are more problem.
I've seen the TL494 IC fail so that could still be a problem but it's unlikely because the 56s didn't fail. When the 56s fail, the 494 is more likely to be damaged.
car amp schematics
There are some car amp schematics posted at www.schematicsforfree.mattsoft.net. While these may not be the ones the writer is asking for, they will provide a reference to give an idea how car amps are built.
And I hate to say this but if a person caoont identify the inverter transistors from the power amp transistors at a glance, their chances if being able to repair an amp without a schematic are low.
Regardless, when you fire up an amp after replacing the blown parts, make sure there are no speakers connected and use a current limited power supply.
I design car amps for what we believe to be the last remaining company to build car amps in the USA and we always use a current limited power supply. We set it at 14.4V and 2 Amps maximum when first firing up a new amplifier.
If you connect a newly repaired amp directly to the car battery when you first fire it up, the chances of letting the majic smoke out of the new parts is very, very high.
If you don't have a current limited power supply, connect a high beam headlamp in series with the amplifier power. This would be the old fashioned sealed beam type with 2 pins. If it glows really bright when you connect the amp, there is still something wrong. It should glow for a second and then taper off in brightness over the next couple seconds.
Dan
There are some car amp schematics posted at www.schematicsforfree.mattsoft.net. While these may not be the ones the writer is asking for, they will provide a reference to give an idea how car amps are built.
And I hate to say this but if a person caoont identify the inverter transistors from the power amp transistors at a glance, their chances if being able to repair an amp without a schematic are low.
Regardless, when you fire up an amp after replacing the blown parts, make sure there are no speakers connected and use a current limited power supply.
I design car amps for what we believe to be the last remaining company to build car amps in the USA and we always use a current limited power supply. We set it at 14.4V and 2 Amps maximum when first firing up a new amplifier.
If you connect a newly repaired amp directly to the car battery when you first fire it up, the chances of letting the majic smoke out of the new parts is very, very high.
If you don't have a current limited power supply, connect a high beam headlamp in series with the amplifier power. This would be the old fashioned sealed beam type with 2 pins. If it glows really bright when you connect the amp, there is still something wrong. It should glow for a second and then taper off in brightness over the next couple seconds.
Dan
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