Reducing Record Surface Noise - I want to know all Approaches

Always wondered who actually had to listed to all 4 sides whilst it was being cut. I did try once, but only managed about 10 minutes. I think Ben Duncan put me off audio writers trying to be funny for life!

Well it fits on 1 CD for double CD try to get through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batztoutai_with_Material_Gadgets. I could supply you of course. :D BTW when I'm set up again I do intend to make you a copy of that Morricone LP so you can judge my low-brow LP setup. ;)
 
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Just 2 months early, the banner add on the right for "The Diana Krall Free Zone" was added humor. Multiple copies of the LP version of "Metal Machine Music" would definitely set you back (a fine Bob Ludwig job BTW).
Yup, even the choice of Metal Machine Music is surely tongue in cheek........ I think the article is well crafted, a fun jibe at the writing genre and a repost to the technocrats that almost sneaks under the radar !

LD
 
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Joined 2004
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Modest I. Predlozheniye = "A modest proposal", Jonathan Swift on the Irish question, 1729 = po-faced satire. Heh heh heh ... the chuckles started on the first line and kept coming.

Amh Ulchach is sort of Scots Gaelic for smart-**** kid, Glenghniomhaid rolls off the tongue as "Glen home-made", doaty baws are dirty balls, not to mention my cousin bum-less and the TRASHING of the sacred canon of recorded music.

I just WISH Modest was a regular contributor ...

By the way, the tartan of clan McNab has marvellous damping properties, and would be a fine match for that solid austenitic cantilever with integrated stylus.
 
By the way, the tartan of clan McNab has marvellous damping properties, and would be a fine match for that solid austenitic cantilever with integrated stylus.

I had a friend from the McNabs his grandfather bought him an entire cask of McCallans as a birth gift to be held at the distillery until requested. Last I heard he has left it for over 40yrs now probably worth $400,000 if bottled. Buying a newborn a cask of whiskey has to be in the right spirit.
 
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Modest I. Predlozheniye = "A modest proposal", Jonathan Swift on the Irish question, 1729 = po-faced satire. Heh heh heh ... the chuckles started on the first line and kept coming.

Amh Ulchach is sort of Scots Gaelic for smart-**** kid, Glenghniomhaid rolls off the tongue as "Glen home-made", doaty baws are dirty balls, not to mention my cousin bum-less and the TRASHING of the sacred canon of recorded music.
Yup, it's like a cryptic crossword. It took me ages to get "my old engineer friend Dr. Farquar Kentigern MacBhreatnaich"

Very funny :)

LD
 
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Joined 2014
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Not sure I understand his point on the compliance of shellac vs vinyl.
"This was still with 78s. And shellac is a much harder material than vinyl, so there is less compliance. The moving mass against whatever compliance there is determines the upper frequency of the resonance. So of course when LP came in, the huge problem was that with all these better-quality pickups, the high-frequency resonance came down by something like an octave because of the compliance of the material.

Really doesn't make sense to me.
 
Not sure I understand his point on the compliance of shellac vs vinyl.
The fundamental physics is that whenever you combine mass and springiness/compliance, you get a mechanical resonance.

The resonance frequency is always of the form {constant x [square_root_of(springiness/mass)]}

There are two unavoidable mechanical resonances in a record player cartridge / arm / record combination, caused by two different masses, and two different compliances, in the system.

At the low frequency end, there is the resonance created by the compliance of the stylus, and the effective mass of the entire tone arm. This is usually placed somewhere below 20 Hz (often much lower), to allow response to the lowest bass frequencies in the audio band.

At the high frequency end, there is the resonance created by the tiny mass of the jewel at the stylus tip, and the compliance of the material of the record itself. This sets the upper frequency limit of that cartridge playing that record. Ideally above 20 kHz (much higher since the era of the quadraphonic record drove the rapid evolution of extremely low tip-mass playback cartridges.)

The claim here is that shellac has much less compliance than vinyl, and therefore will produce a higher upper resonance frequency, all else being equal.

I have my doubts about the "all else being equal" part. Weren't the grooves in shellac records much larger than the later vinyl LP microgroove, meaning larger contact area between stylus tip and record wall? Weren't the stylus tips themselves larger and heavier? This is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

-Gnobudddy
 
under
Shunt feedback in phono preamplifiers : new topics on this forum
I read this in the last posting:

Interesting in this system is the presence of a nearly ideal noise reducer which cleans up LP surface noise along with the preamplifier's input 47kOhm thermal noise. This circuit is very effective in reducing both vinyl and cassette tape noise.

From this approach I have never heard before.
Any experiences (go to the schematics in one of previous postings) ?
Any news ?
Are there measurements concerning S/N ratio of RIAA phono preamps and record surface noise at the same time ?
The information like
Pass Aleph Ono phono preamplifier:
Unweighted S/N ratio: 90dB ref. 10mV input (MM), 81dB ref. 1mV input (MC)
Linn Linto:
A-weighted S/N ratio (ref. 500uV input at 1kHz) 85.3dB
Graham Audio Era Gold Mk.V phono stage:
Output noise (A wtd): –75dB

usually found are completely useless in real life because a RIAA phono pre-amp isn't a microphone preamp and is never operated without a record on a running turntable and the cartridge-needle lowered.

read also last post under
Shunt feedback in phono preamplifiers : new topics on this forum
 
What a strange idea, a phono preamp that cleans up the Surface noise of an LP.
And that should be done with the thermal noise from the 47K input resistor ?

I think this is confused with a “cooled” resistor topology where a few dB in S/N can be gained, not from the LP surface noise but from the phono amp’s noise.
However since the noise of modern phono amps is below auditory treshold and LP Surface noise is at least 20dB much lower, are two reasons why increasing the phono amp’s S/N makes no sense.

Hans
 
Hi...
You wrote: "... want to know all approaches ..."
Maybe it's not the kind of approach you meant, but did you see that? (same in german)
There you hardly hear anything of the surface noise of a record.
Yes, because this only applies to associated CX-encoded vinyl records. Most exist records are without so called "Compatible Expansion"

I am looking for commercial RIAA MM preamp devices, which operates in shunt feedback mode according the description in last posting under
Shunt feedback in phono preamplifiers - audio qualia
What a strange idea, a phono preamp that cleans up the Surface noise of an LP.
And that should be done with the thermal noise from the 47K input resistor ?


I think this is confused with a “cooled” resistor topology where a few dB in S/N can be gained, not from the LP surface noise but from the phono amp’s noise.
However since the noise of modern phono amps is below auditory treshold and LP Surface noise is at least 20dB much lower, are two reasons why increasing the phono amp’s S/N makes no sense.

Hans
Maybe yes, maybe no. I don't but I want to know. Therefore the desire to find a commercial available device (haven't time to realize a diy project in this kind).
 
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