The issue is covered in detail throughout the thread.
The ultra sonic cleaners work by creating very small void bubbles which colapse with great energy, thus cleaning the surfaces.
If I remember correctly lower frequencies allow the bubbles to grow bigger which can potentially damage the surface by creating cavities.
Smaller bubbles could also mean deeper cleaning now that I think of it to be honest...
The ultra sonic cleaners work by creating very small void bubbles which colapse with great energy, thus cleaning the surfaces.
If I remember correctly lower frequencies allow the bubbles to grow bigger which can potentially damage the surface by creating cavities.
Smaller bubbles could also mean deeper cleaning now that I think of it to be honest...
Found the Sonix IV ST136H, 60 Khz machine from a place called "Findings Outlet" in Michigan (No Affiliation) for $450.00
Findings Outlet :: Tools :: Ultrasonics :: Sonix IV Ultrasonics
Findings Outlet :: Tools :: Ultrasonics :: Sonix IV Ultrasonics
I must point out this:
Elmasonic P: Elma Hans Schmidbauer GmbH & Co. KG
they do support both 37KHz and 80KHz.
Prices on ebay (model P30 H) are about the double the cheapest seen on this thread.
Elmasonic P: Elma Hans Schmidbauer GmbH & Co. KG
they do support both 37KHz and 80KHz.
Prices on ebay (model P30 H) are about the double the cheapest seen on this thread.
Okay, count me in. I'm a newbie and this is my first post. But here's my story: On Thursday night I walked into my local record shop and said I had about $350 to spend for a record cleaning machine -- anybody in town have a VPI machine for sale? He said he didn't know of any, but showed me how the one in his store works -- wow, what a difference. And then he told me about the overheating problem that keeps him from doing more than six in a row.
Then he showed me his Ultrasonic machine -- a small jewelry sized ultrasonic cleaner, about wide enough for a 45. He gets tremendous results with that, he said, but it's not big enough for an LP. Someday he said his dream is to acquire a $4,000 Audiodesk.
It got me thinking, though. If there was something that size for jewelry, there had to be something a little bigger than that, big enough for albums. I saw a 6-liter unit on eBay, and started thinking, wow, what if you got something like a barbecue rotisserie and put a record on the shaft and dunked part of it in the tank and sort of motorized the process... ?
Okay, so now the Internet has led me to this site, and I see people have been tinkering with this same idea for four years now, and maybe this isn't the most original thought in the world. But wow. What an idea.
I bought that ultrasonic cleaner on eBay, BTW. It was $250 including postage, brand new. This was before I knew I had to pay attention to kilohertz; this one runs at 42000, and all I can say after reading this entire thread for the last couple hours is that the record-damage argument appears to be theoretical, and no one seems ever to have actually experienced it. I am right on this, aren't I? I guess if the few commercially available units run at this level, it's probably OK.
Well, anyway, I am so glad to see so many people have worked out what you need to do and what you need to buy in order to make something like this work. Because of what others have done it seems a lot of guesswork has gone out of it. And I am so glad that slow-turning motors are available! I was worried that I would have to take a rotisserie motor and find some way to install gears to make the spindle turn at an appropriately slow speed.
Seriously, good show, guys! Now I just need to find someone with a lathe, a drill press and a saw that can cut aluminum.
All my construction questions are answered, so here's an operational one. When cleaning my records in the past, I have used a carbon fiber brush, and sometimes, when they're really dirty, I've used vinegar-based Windex with a microfiber cloth. Gives pretty darn good results for something you can get for $2.99 at Target. I know it's not magical stuff, like the record-cleaning fluids that cost $80 a bottle, but hey, I'm okay with it. I understand ammonia can damage vinyl, so regular Windex is out. I also understand alcohol can be hazardous as well, though for reasons discussed earlier in this thread I gather it is not much of a threat.
But nothing I've seen indicates vinegar is a threat, and the surfactant in Windex make it a quick-evaporating product that leaves no residue I can see (or hear).
Has anyone tried using vinegar-based Windex in an ultrasonic cleaner? Or some sort of vinegar based solution? I wonder how this might compare with the alcohol-based solutions with photo-flo that so many seem to recommend. Any thoughts, guys?
Then he showed me his Ultrasonic machine -- a small jewelry sized ultrasonic cleaner, about wide enough for a 45. He gets tremendous results with that, he said, but it's not big enough for an LP. Someday he said his dream is to acquire a $4,000 Audiodesk.
It got me thinking, though. If there was something that size for jewelry, there had to be something a little bigger than that, big enough for albums. I saw a 6-liter unit on eBay, and started thinking, wow, what if you got something like a barbecue rotisserie and put a record on the shaft and dunked part of it in the tank and sort of motorized the process... ?
Okay, so now the Internet has led me to this site, and I see people have been tinkering with this same idea for four years now, and maybe this isn't the most original thought in the world. But wow. What an idea.
I bought that ultrasonic cleaner on eBay, BTW. It was $250 including postage, brand new. This was before I knew I had to pay attention to kilohertz; this one runs at 42000, and all I can say after reading this entire thread for the last couple hours is that the record-damage argument appears to be theoretical, and no one seems ever to have actually experienced it. I am right on this, aren't I? I guess if the few commercially available units run at this level, it's probably OK.
Well, anyway, I am so glad to see so many people have worked out what you need to do and what you need to buy in order to make something like this work. Because of what others have done it seems a lot of guesswork has gone out of it. And I am so glad that slow-turning motors are available! I was worried that I would have to take a rotisserie motor and find some way to install gears to make the spindle turn at an appropriately slow speed.
Seriously, good show, guys! Now I just need to find someone with a lathe, a drill press and a saw that can cut aluminum.
All my construction questions are answered, so here's an operational one. When cleaning my records in the past, I have used a carbon fiber brush, and sometimes, when they're really dirty, I've used vinegar-based Windex with a microfiber cloth. Gives pretty darn good results for something you can get for $2.99 at Target. I know it's not magical stuff, like the record-cleaning fluids that cost $80 a bottle, but hey, I'm okay with it. I understand ammonia can damage vinyl, so regular Windex is out. I also understand alcohol can be hazardous as well, though for reasons discussed earlier in this thread I gather it is not much of a threat.
But nothing I've seen indicates vinegar is a threat, and the surfactant in Windex make it a quick-evaporating product that leaves no residue I can see (or hear).
Has anyone tried using vinegar-based Windex in an ultrasonic cleaner? Or some sort of vinegar based solution? I wonder how this might compare with the alcohol-based solutions with photo-flo that so many seem to recommend. Any thoughts, guys?
Alcohol
Hi Petkovicg,
I'd recommend against high purity ethanol, which can affect PVC and vinyl records. Where are you located? If somewhere in Europe, you should be able to order high purity isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol from Amazon UK or Amazon Germany if it's not available locally. Will they ship to your location?
Good luck,
B B
Hi Petkovicg,
I'd recommend against high purity ethanol, which can affect PVC and vinyl records. Where are you located? If somewhere in Europe, you should be able to order high purity isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol from Amazon UK or Amazon Germany if it's not available locally. Will they ship to your location?
Good luck,
B B
Vinegar / windex
Hi Erik,
The beauty of pure isopropyl alcohol as a record cleaner is that it is soluble in water and evaporates completely with no residue. Pure isopropyl does not harm LPs.
The main ingredients in vinegar are acetic acid and water. Acetic acid content above 5% will damage PVC, so I'd be hesitant to use it on an LP. I'd want the vinegar to be highly diluted to be safe.
The problem with Windex with Vinegar is that it contains lots of other things too.
Some of these may not rinse off completely and do not evaporate:
2-Hexoxyethanol (Cleaning Agent)
Butoxypropanol (Cleaning Agent)
Propylene Glycol (Carrier)
Sodium C14-17 Sec-Alkyl Sulfonate (Wetting Agent)
Acetic Acid (Cleaning Agent)
Sodium Dodecylbenzene Sulfonate (Wetting Agent)
Lactic Acid (pH Adjuster)
Fragrance from SC Johnson Fragrance Palette
Cheers,
B B
Hi Erik,
The beauty of pure isopropyl alcohol as a record cleaner is that it is soluble in water and evaporates completely with no residue. Pure isopropyl does not harm LPs.
The main ingredients in vinegar are acetic acid and water. Acetic acid content above 5% will damage PVC, so I'd be hesitant to use it on an LP. I'd want the vinegar to be highly diluted to be safe.
The problem with Windex with Vinegar is that it contains lots of other things too.
Some of these may not rinse off completely and do not evaporate:
2-Hexoxyethanol (Cleaning Agent)
Butoxypropanol (Cleaning Agent)
Propylene Glycol (Carrier)
Sodium C14-17 Sec-Alkyl Sulfonate (Wetting Agent)
Acetic Acid (Cleaning Agent)
Sodium Dodecylbenzene Sulfonate (Wetting Agent)
Lactic Acid (pH Adjuster)
Fragrance from SC Johnson Fragrance Palette
Cheers,
B B
It's interesting to hear that about Windex! You know, I haven't rinsed after using it -- I've simply applied it with a microfiber cloth while the record is on the turntable, spread/scrubbed/dried with a dry corner of the cloth (in the direction of the grooves while turning by hand), then have gone back again with the carbon fiber brush. The stuff evaporates so quickly! -- or at least it seems to. And I have always noticed improvement, sometimes dramatic.
I guess this just goes to show I really need to build that ultrasonic cleaner and go clean everything! All 3,000 albums, uh-uh.
BBFTX, I'll be trying to follow your 'design number two' -- at least what I see of it here in these pages. One thing concerns me. How can a guy like me, who doesn't have metalworking tools, go to a machine shop and get them to drill holes in two pieces of metal that will line up during assembly? I'm thinking here about the L- and U-shaped aluminum bracket pieces you use for for your frame. Maybe I'm worrying too much here, but getting somebody else to drill holes that line up precisely -- I wonder what instruction I give that can get that job done? I really don't want to buy a drill press; otherwise I'd do it myself.
I guess this just goes to show I really need to build that ultrasonic cleaner and go clean everything! All 3,000 albums, uh-uh.
BBFTX, I'll be trying to follow your 'design number two' -- at least what I see of it here in these pages. One thing concerns me. How can a guy like me, who doesn't have metalworking tools, go to a machine shop and get them to drill holes in two pieces of metal that will line up during assembly? I'm thinking here about the L- and U-shaped aluminum bracket pieces you use for for your frame. Maybe I'm worrying too much here, but getting somebody else to drill holes that line up precisely -- I wonder what instruction I give that can get that job done? I really don't want to buy a drill press; otherwise I'd do it myself.
Metalworking
Erik
If you're the social sort, you might try meeting some hobbyist metal workers in your area. Check out the Seattle Metalheads Society -- over 700 members. Check them out online. Maybe some live near you. I bet you could find someone willing to do you a simple favor to get what you need done to get your rig built.
Cheers,
B B
Erik
If you're the social sort, you might try meeting some hobbyist metal workers in your area. Check out the Seattle Metalheads Society -- over 700 members. Check them out online. Maybe some live near you. I bet you could find someone willing to do you a simple favor to get what you need done to get your rig built.
Cheers,
B B
On my way!
I've ordered all the parts it makes sense to order before the ultrasonic cleaner gets here -- the motor, the cork, the pillow block, etc. I notice that some online outfits offer to cut the aluminum pieces to length, so I ought to take measurements from the cleaner box before ordering those parts. Cutting the pieces will be one headache I won't have.
I keep thinking about minor changes to the design... I too worry about weight strain on a fully loaded shaft... but as long as this is not a problem, in many ways this design reflects an economical elegance that doesn't need improving. In other words, I keep thinking of ideas, and then decide, no the original makes more sense. We'll have to see once I get it put together.
I've ordered all the parts it makes sense to order before the ultrasonic cleaner gets here -- the motor, the cork, the pillow block, etc. I notice that some online outfits offer to cut the aluminum pieces to length, so I ought to take measurements from the cleaner box before ordering those parts. Cutting the pieces will be one headache I won't have.
I keep thinking about minor changes to the design... I too worry about weight strain on a fully loaded shaft... but as long as this is not a problem, in many ways this design reflects an economical elegance that doesn't need improving. In other words, I keep thinking of ideas, and then decide, no the original makes more sense. We'll have to see once I get it put together.
Design
Hi Erik,
If you're using a bearing in an arrangement akin to what I used in my version 2 (photo attached here), you needn't worry about stresses on the motor shaft at all. I am much, much more comfortable with this than the no-bearing approach I first used.
But, there are many ways to skin this cat, so it's always good to test new ideas to find potential improvements.
Let us know how your assembly progresses.
B B
Hi Erik,
If you're using a bearing in an arrangement akin to what I used in my version 2 (photo attached here), you needn't worry about stresses on the motor shaft at all. I am much, much more comfortable with this than the no-bearing approach I first used.
But, there are many ways to skin this cat, so it's always good to test new ideas to find potential improvements.
Let us know how your assembly progresses.
B B
Main thing I wondered about was the possibility of using a 1.5 inch aluminum angle piece for the motor arm, rather than a piece of flat steel with an L-bracket at the end, as you have done in design No. 2. It struck me that an angle piece would reduce stress on the arm and reduce the possibility of sway, and perhaps look a little simpler and more elegant. But this would mean a shorter distance between the motor and the pillow block. If I am able to find someone to do lathe work on the spindle, this would be no problem. But if I can't, I will have to use a shaft connector, and the previous photos in this thread make it look like the cool metal shaft connector wouldn't fit, and only the kludgy plastic one would. So that's why I'm thinking the original design might be best here. We'll see! I'm excited to give this project a try. Thanks so much for posting parts numbers and sources -- I don't think I would have figured them out on my own.
Frequency Choice
Hi Fukinagashi,
This post lays out the issues involved with frequency choice:
Frequency Choice Considerations
Cheers,
B B
Hi Fukinagashi,
This post lays out the issues involved with frequency choice:
Frequency Choice Considerations
Cheers,
B B
For ultrasonic cleaning in general anything that is safe to use on the material that reduces the surface tension of the (distilled) water works fine
Care must be used with heated ultrasonic tanks. Especially so if you are using it for something other than record cleaning. With the lid on the heated space creates a pressurized cavity super heating the solution which can result in an explosive over boil when the lid is lifted.
Watched a friend get severe 2-3degree burns to part the face/neck/hands/forearms this way. Like getting hit by Old Faithful.
Another Approach
When I designed my fixture, I was concerned about load on motor shaft and strength of shaft holding LPs. I looked at metal shaft BUT went with 1/4" oak dowel.
Dowel is coupled to motor shaft using nylon spacer screwed into dowel and slid over motor shaft NOTE my motor shaft has flat side
I use another nylon spacer as my 'bearing' to support other end of dowel
This has worked so well, I haven't taken the time to pretty it up
When I designed my fixture, I was concerned about load on motor shaft and strength of shaft holding LPs. I looked at metal shaft BUT went with 1/4" oak dowel.
Dowel is coupled to motor shaft using nylon spacer screwed into dowel and slid over motor shaft NOTE my motor shaft has flat side
I use another nylon spacer as my 'bearing' to support other end of dowel
This has worked so well, I haven't taken the time to pretty it up
Here is an easy way to do the centre clamp - I think they do a multiple clamp as well.
Vinyl ONE Stack Record Label Protector Clean 78s 45s 33s | eBay
Vinyl ONE Stack Record Label Protector Clean 78s 45s 33s | eBay