a thread for "resto-mod" turntables...(administrators/moderators please read)

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a thread for "resto-mod" turntables...(administrators/moderators please read)

This is a break away from the existing "good turntables for restoring" thread. That thread has wandered quite a bit off the real topic, which strictly speaking should be limited to turntables that are good candidates for a restoration.

Many have modified an existing table or made a re-plinth, and various other mods to existing tables, while still maintaining a somewhat stock look. That is what this thread is intended for. Not true "customs" but tables where significant portions of existing tables have been used as the basis for a project. Things like top plates, platters, bearings and motors should be recognizable. They can be hacked up and shrunken, but need to still appear to have the basic design intact.

Comments and help "retro-fitting" modern or DIY arms to these "resto-mod" tables are encouraged.
 
Rather than post on the "good turntables for restoring" thread I've decided to reply

To help with readability, I have dorrected some of gaborela's spelling, but no the grammar. I undrstand that English may be a second language for him.
Hello,Welcome Cambe...
from me as well.
Nanook do you think my graphite tube heavy?Now 18" long now and weight 42Gr. I know it is too long I have to cut done may be 3" or more because I still have to ad a head shell.

gabby (If I may call you that): My tonearm has an effective mass of 27.53 grams including the headshell, the armtube, the female bearing insert, the cartridge, tonearm wire, cartridge pins, and the fasteners. The tube itself weighs 14-17 grams (I've used a couple of different spec types). Yes I think the mass of the graphite tube is too heavy. If you are planning on using the V15III then I am sure you can get away with it, as it was developed at a time when many tonearms were heavy. A calculation must be done. If using the V15-V MR, then a closer look needs to be taken. We have to remember that the resonant frequency of the arm varies as 1/mass

I found great Carbon fibre pipe 9mm inside diameter 7mm and another 7mm inside 5mm.
That is from China 2PC from each 50Cm long plus shipping cost $34. Picture att.
Very nice pipe, but I still don't know which material better, titanium, carbon fibre, graphite...
The wall is thin, but they are quite expensive and readily available. Ti on the other hand is not. Aluminum is my favourite, and thus far I have not had to use any damping material at all on any of them. There are local sources for excellent quality tubing available in almost any town.

I do not want to waste money. If is good tube of course I'll buy it... Some opinion it would be great
Commercial tone arms use carbon fiber and other materials too..
regarding materials used commercially: True, many materials are used in commercial arms. I simply am an "anti"-carbon fiber kinda guy. It stems from the absolutely poor qualities of the stuff when subject to UV rays for any period of time. Trek, the bicycle manufacturer, had many failures of their frames when I was more into cycling. I have never really looked at the material for anything since then. It may be a suitable material. It does "ring" though and needs to be damped using some sort of material inside the tune and/or outside of the tube. Latex theatrical paint can be used to good effect for that. I like Aluminum, as I have never had a single one (arm tube) ring.
regarding costs and availability: all interested in making a DIY tonearm or improving a stock one should go to a local archery range and look for some arrow shafts. Graphite, carbon fiber, Ti and aluminum shafts are all available, and can usually be purchased as single pieces. Ti may not be stocked, and most will want you to buy a dozen or 1/2 dozen pcs. 2 arm tubes can be made form a single long length of arrow shaft (the longer the better, the larger the diameter, the better)
 
gabby, your headshell is wrong!...

your headshell is bent about 6° (angle A) too much. Dtermine the arm length, find oa arm of similar length, set an O/H distance, then look for an arm and use that O/S angle.

Also some further info on the arm pictured in my last photos:

effective length: 335 mm
overall length: 398 mm
effective mass without counter-weight: 27.53 grams
 

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Hello Nannok

Now I'm confused.. Because all your lines are red now I'm not sure which would be the right angle
Can you mark the right angle with diferent color please. I ask these because I plan to make a new head shell from 2mm tick titanium so not to mess up that.
That titanium is here
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/120847169988?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Because these tube only 6mm and wall thickness only 04mm it can be used for short arm. Max effective length 225mm to 250mm I think! Even do is stronger than the aluminium still not titanium alloy. Soft 99.5% pure titanium!
OK that material for arm I picked is way to heavy, thank you! Because you wrote my titanium a bit light.
I do not want to use MC cartridge but I use several MM like Shure V type III, type IV, Ortofon OM20- I want to upgrade it to 40.
My arm must be good for most of the MM cartridge 1-2Gr force.
That carbon fibre UV protected! Much lighter than my graphite because all the way 1mm wall thickness..
I hate aluminium for tone arm, I don't know why probably because I had a lot of Dual and other German TT.
My Elac has something similar like aluminium a bit darker color. I don't think they used titanium 40 years a go.
My Dual just arrived, I tested sound so-so not to bad. The arm lift does not stop when I lift up the arm. I do not care about that much these will be a donor.
It run very smooth, better than the Elac from that point..
The Dual plinth a piece of art work..... junk
Please do not forget I want to use 2 arm on these deck. One 9-10" and one as long as possible. May be like yours..
Graphite or carbon fibre is better (I think they are the same but you have more experience, DIY TT knowledge):)
Thanks again
Greetings Gabor
 

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Hello Nannok

These what I asked from you. Where the needle (stylus) run on the record.
It must be some rule. Or the stylus is round that all?
I tested several TT and all different. Now I don't know what to do. If I have problem with the 9" tone arm angle what will happen with the longer arm?
Look at my picture you can see what I'm talking about
With several arm I start at the same point but when the arm at the last number all different. Sometimes more than 1cm..
On the paper I made only one arm angle. After I realised all different I gave up because it would be a mess, it would be hard to understand what I'm talking.
I think the Thorens arm was 8".
I will see when I receive the Linn head shell if I can use that for a 9-10 inch arm or for the long arm..
That does not feet these tube..
Greetings Gabor
 

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Hello Nannok

About the cartridge angle I can adjust that . Please look at the blue line I ad. The blue line parallel with your red. Those screws let me to adjust the angle. The 2 screw attached to the hand lift not to the head shell.
Or the stylus must be in the center of the arm that is a rule?
I think I can use it as a 9" arm.:rolleyes: If you not advise I'll make another head shell in that way so I can adjust that angle more.
That angle on the red paper is important because I use two arm. I must know how big must be the plinth..
They cut the material at the Home Depot if is to small that a waste of money if is to big same. I do not want a diner table size deck.
What is the size of your deck. That would give some idea for the long arm which is the most important to me

Greetings Gabor
 

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correct angles...

The angles are measured from a horizontal line to the angle indicated they also correspond to the O/S angles. The bottom diagram is what seems to be there now. The middle diagram would be accurate if the long outside edge is parallel to the centreline of the tube. The top diagram is if the short inside edge is aligned with the centreline of the tube.

This of course assumes that I traced out the headshell correctly. If you follow the method I used for my tonearm, all I did was mount the cartridge, guess where the tonearm pivot should go, based on a 15mm O/H. I then verified it using the Oracle protractor.

The top diagram is not to the correct scale, but the angles are still accurate.

Once you set the tonearm length , and assume a O/H distance, then it can be pretty easy to place the tonearm base/pivot.
 

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Hello Nannok

You right, I did measured to the Dual 505 II and really out of angle.
How did Thorens used that with straight arm? These useless and I paid $70 for it. Thank God the Shure V15 type IV cartridge is good came with these arm.
That will return my money hopefully.
If I see that earlier I would not cut the arm..
Can you post a picture from your arm please from the cartridge side. If I see well you went all the way straight. If any trick there please explaned to me..
If I can use traight arm with the type of head shell U use that would be the best.
Thank you very much.

Greetings Gabor
 
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Hello Nannok

Do you have any idea how hard to cut carbon fibre or drill it.
I do not think I can cut with hex saw.
I want to build my head shell to. I'm sick and tired to waste money on garbage head shells.
Or do you have better idea for head shell.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/150734453877?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648
That titanium not bad but I have to bend it 90 degree. I have no machine to bang it with hammer that stupid idea. I can't weld it also.
For carbon fibre there is a special strong glue to make the mounting side 2 or 3x2mm and one piece 2mm where I mouth the cartridge. Make it L shape.
I see some carbon fibre head shell sell $200 or more. Can't be bad for that price.
I just don't know if I can cut it straight. Probably diamond ceramic cuter would do the job.
I go with straight arm and head shell like yours and drill the 2 whole in angle.
Sorry for so many question but I would like to go forward with these project and waste as little money as possible.
I hope these Linn head shell will be better for $30 with shipping
Please do not forget the picture from your arm from the buttom side. or the top but just the arm (close picture) so I can see the details.
Greetings Gabor:)
 

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Oracle Alex MkII resto mod ideas and comments to gabby...

... here's my idea for a resto-mod for my Oracle Alex MkII turntable:
I'd like to update my Alex MkII, but it would mean creating a DIY version of the Delphi, albeit uglier. One thing I have considered is removing all of the electronics from the plinth (there are 3 or 4 boards IIRC), and putting them into an external enclosure. Then a umbilical for power to the motor. Then I could make a simple plinth to replace the plastic one. It would look like an Alex MKII, but removes a lot of the apparent problems . Also I think a Pederson type mod for the suspension would make a lot of sense, and the ability to mount a counterweight as per the newer Delphi turntable. This would perhaps be better described as a "resto-mod", except everything would essentially be invisible and there are no electronic upgrades. The only suspension upgrades would be getting rid of the conical springs.

gabby: One ought to consider the arm that these headshells come from and what arm you plan to use. One of absolutely the easiest "headshells" to make is one that really isn't. Have a look at the attached picture.
 

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Hello Nannok

I agree with you about the head shell. What you posted on the picture very nice but I can't make that with a saw and drill.
That req. serious machinery.
For the long arm I'm planing to use graphite (I bought 2 more golf club).
I think after the color the one I asked before (42Gr) in not pure graphite.
These what I just bought when I cut them all the way black color.
The 42Gr has some white mixture in it. The gold color 15" long and I think it will be around 30Gr..
Monday I'll go to the post office to measure the weight of the pure graphite pipe. It since to me much lighter than the one before.
Why I like golf club shaft?
You can see one side thinner another side thicker it give a nice look like those new expensive SME.
You wrote thicker is better.. That about the pipe over all diameter or the wall thickness?
Also I will go the the Canadian Tire to check out the arrow shaft. Both aluminium and graphite or carbon type.
I will make a head shell like yours. That is why I ask picture from yours.
I try to use titanium and pure carbon fibre.
I see some company produce for horrible price wood head shell.
I have no idea what type of wood they use, soft or hard.
The Linn head shell a bit heavy over 15Gr. I will see when it arrive if is useful or waste of money like the Thorens.
Thank you for your help! :)

Greetings Gabor
 

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"my headshell"

was done by a friend, but if you want one I'll see what I can do for you or contact him and see if he would be willing to make a run of a few again. Just tell me the diameter of the tubing that you will be using so I can bore a hole in the end of the headshell. The spacing for the cartridge screws will be 1/2" as per standard. I will not try to machine slots in the headshell, as every time that I have tried I've made an absolute mess of it.

Larger diameter is better, but thinner or same sized wall... (it becomes much stiffer).

The one that I pictured can be made of wood. A suitable length of doweling in the correct diameter is required), even the hardwood dowels sold at Canadian Tire will do), and a small piece of flat material (aluminum, wood, etc). A sharp knife (or small chisel, but be very careful) can be used to create the complete section that is inserted into the shaft. It needs to have a hole or channel in it to allow the wires to exit and hook up to the cartridge. I'll make one on my desktop and take pictures or a video, and post a link if I can get it on YouTube.
 
Hello Nannok

Thank you for your offer!
Right now I don't know yet which material I use for arm.
To get a professional looking head shell I must test some tubes.
I plan to get arrow shaft to , also I have to measure the weight the new graphite tubes.
I realised hard to work with these material very hard even to cut it straight, drilling wouldn't be easier either.
If the pipe counter weight side 15mm or so is still OK?
Of course I try to keep the weight under or around 30Gr for a 12" or 14" arm
The short arm will be metal but I want to test everything, I do not want to judge any material before I test them.
Can be aluminium, carbon fibre, graphite, titanium.
Right now the graphite pipe I think it will be good (by the weight) one side 8mm where the head shell will be mounted the other side 11mm the tube is 15" long now
I can cut a thicker diameter tube one side 11mm the other side 14mm 16" long but I must check the weight at the post office scale. Wall thickness 1mm
To long arm I think will cause problem to.
12" or max 14 more than enough.
Greetings Gabor
 
Hello Nannok

I made a another head shell. Actually is commercial straight arm head shell.
I used the original hole to not to change the original angle.
It is close to the Thorens?? :rolleyes:
I'm not sure if these better. I want to know because soon the Linn head shell arrive and I only use that (if need a cut or something) if I know the angle correct.
Can you take a look please..The picture not the best quality because the light when I took the picture and I didn't wanted to use flash.
Today I measure the weight the new tubes and if I have enough time I go to the Canadian Tire to check it out if they have arrow shaft.

Greetings Gabor:)
 

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Hello Nannok

Thank you for your answer!
These is a commercial head shell use in many turntable. It look like some type of plastic (not carbon fibre)
I inserted a small brass ring where the tube will be inserted so it is removable head shell.
That is a M3 screw now I wait to the glue hold on the brass ring/
What do you think about the angle. It have to be good.
These head shell was universal used in many turntable. I did took out the plastic with the connectors.
It had a hole in the middle. So I started in the center hole with 1mm drill bit and I went up until 6mm using at list 6-7 size of drill bits so I can keep the original angle.
If these head shell good after these I will make some titanium and carbon fibre and wood head shell.
For all the head shell I will use 6mm thick titanium where I insert the pipes. If I can get from the guy!
I will see which one will be better and I use that.
The final head shell will be not removable. I think that sound better, do you agree with that.
Please take a look if the angel is good now, Thank you
Greetings Gabor
 

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Hello Nannok

The short arm will look like these. Of course I will test different tubes and better head shell.
For the long arm I don't know what type of suspension I will use. I have no idea. Specially if I use carbon or graphite tube.
I like your suspension but I do not understand everything.
Inside your pipe is protected or you just made a hole and that all? If I use carbon tube very soon that needle will go out another side on the arm. I can't do that.
I attached the picture so you can understand my question..

Greetings Gabor
 

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working with composites...

gabby: another reason I don't like carbon fiber is that drilling it creates dust, and the dust is toxic. Cutting a tube with a pipe cutter does not create much but drilling does. The angles in your last few pictures appear to be way tp steep.

You can do this yourself. Lay the arms on a piece of paper. Using a pencil or marker, trace the shaft on one side, then trace one of the slots in the headshell (or even the front of the headshell if perpendicular to the slots). Remove the arm. Using a ruler, extend the lines so that they intersect. Measure the angle. 90° - (measured angle)= O/S angle if the "slot line" is used. If the front of the headshell is used, draw a line perpendicular to it and then use the perpendicular line as the one to measure with.. If trying to make a tonearm for a specific turntable that uses a specific tonearm, you must duplicate that tonearm as closely as possible. If making a custom arm, just do as I have suggested, and use a standard headshell (either wood or a metal one). Use smaller cartridge screws, these will allow you to twist the cartridge in the headshell and allow alignment. Get a tonearm protractor, and follow the instructions for that.
 
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Hello Nannok

I just received the Linn head shell, I believe these accurate so I can go after these to make my ow head shell
I did a mark one picture, it has a red line. Be careful because the head shell a bit in angle (because the finger lift) does not let to lay it done in level
These weight 9Gr.
I did measured some of my graphite tubes
1 Thin end 8.5mm thick end 11.5mm 14" long weight 24Gr
2 Thin end 11mm thick end 14.5mm 16" long weight 28Gr
3 Thin end 12mm thick end 15mm 16" long weight 28Gr
Al three tube with out head shell the length.
Can I use any one of them or they still weight to much.
I can buy nice carbon tube 9mm thick 1mm wall thickness
Also he has 13mm thick 0.5mm wall thickness
I think these two carbon tube would worth to buy and then try them.
What do you think?
Thank you
Greetings Gabor
 

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