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Old 3rd February 2012, 09:40 PM   #1
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Lightbulb a thread for "resto-mod" turntables...(administrators/moderators please read)

This is a break away from the existing "good turntables for restoring" thread. That thread has wandered quite a bit off the real topic, which strictly speaking should be limited to turntables that are good candidates for a restoration.

Many have modified an existing table or made a re-plinth, and various other mods to existing tables, while still maintaining a somewhat stock look. That is what this thread is intended for. Not true "customs" but tables where significant portions of existing tables have been used as the basis for a project. Things like top plates, platters, bearings and motors should be recognizable. They can be hacked up and shrunken, but need to still appear to have the basic design intact.

Comments and help "retro-fitting" modern or DIY arms to these "resto-mod" tables are encouraged.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 10:47 PM   #2
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Rather than post on the "good turntables for restoring" thread I've decided to reply

To help with readability, I have dorrected some of gaborela's spelling, but no the grammar. I undrstand that English may be a second language for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaborbela View Post
Hello,Welcome Cambe...
from me as well.
Quote:
Nanook do you think my graphite tube heavy?Now 18" long now and weight 42Gr. I know it is too long I have to cut done may be 3" or more because I still have to ad a head shell.
gabby (If I may call you that): My tonearm has an effective mass of 27.53 grams including the headshell, the armtube, the female bearing insert, the cartridge, tonearm wire, cartridge pins, and the fasteners. The tube itself weighs 14-17 grams (I've used a couple of different spec types). Yes I think the mass of the graphite tube is too heavy. If you are planning on using the V15III then I am sure you can get away with it, as it was developed at a time when many tonearms were heavy. A calculation must be done. If using the V15-V MR, then a closer look needs to be taken. We have to remember that the resonant frequency of the arm varies as 1/mass

Quote:
I found great Carbon fibre pipe 9mm inside diameter 7mm and another 7mm inside 5mm.
That is from China 2PC from each 50Cm long plus shipping cost $34. Picture att.
Very nice pipe, but I still don't know which material better, titanium, carbon fibre, graphite...
The wall is thin, but they are quite expensive and readily available. Ti on the other hand is not. Aluminum is my favourite, and thus far I have not had to use any damping material at all on any of them. There are local sources for excellent quality tubing available in almost any town.

Quote:
I do not want to waste money. If is good tube of course I'll buy it... Some opinion it would be great
Commercial tone arms use carbon fiber and other materials too..
regarding materials used commercially: True, many materials are used in commercial arms. I simply am an "anti"-carbon fiber kinda guy. It stems from the absolutely poor qualities of the stuff when subject to UV rays for any period of time. Trek, the bicycle manufacturer, had many failures of their frames when I was more into cycling. I have never really looked at the material for anything since then. It may be a suitable material. It does "ring" though and needs to be damped using some sort of material inside the tune and/or outside of the tube. Latex theatrical paint can be used to good effect for that. I like Aluminum, as I have never had a single one (arm tube) ring.
regarding costs and availability: all interested in making a DIY tonearm or improving a stock one should go to a local archery range and look for some arrow shafts. Graphite, carbon fiber, Ti and aluminum shafts are all available, and can usually be purchased as single pieces. Ti may not be stocked, and most will want you to buy a dozen or 1/2 dozen pcs. 2 arm tubes can be made form a single long length of arrow shaft (the longer the better, the larger the diameter, the better)
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Old 3rd February 2012, 11:48 PM   #3
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default gabby, your headshell is wrong!...

your headshell is bent about 6 (angle A) too much. Dtermine the arm length, find oa arm of similar length, set an O/H distance, then look for an arm and use that O/S angle.

Also some further info on the arm pictured in my last photos:

effective length: 335 mm
overall length: 398 mm
effective mass without counter-weight: 27.53 grams
Attached Images
File Type: jpg armtube.jpg (36.4 KB, 275 views)
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Last edited by Nanook; 3rd February 2012 at 11:52 PM. Reason: added comments.
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:32 AM   #4
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Hello Nannok

Now I'm confused.. Because all your lines are red now I'm not sure which would be the right angle
Can you mark the right angle with diferent color please. I ask these because I plan to make a new head shell from 2mm tick titanium so not to mess up that.
That titanium is here
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/120847169988?...84.m1423.l2649
Because these tube only 6mm and wall thickness only 04mm it can be used for short arm. Max effective length 225mm to 250mm I think! Even do is stronger than the aluminium still not titanium alloy. Soft 99.5% pure titanium!
OK that material for arm I picked is way to heavy, thank you! Because you wrote my titanium a bit light.
I do not want to use MC cartridge but I use several MM like Shure V type III, type IV, Ortofon OM20- I want to upgrade it to 40.
My arm must be good for most of the MM cartridge 1-2Gr force.
That carbon fibre UV protected! Much lighter than my graphite because all the way 1mm wall thickness..
I hate aluminium for tone arm, I don't know why probably because I had a lot of Dual and other German TT.
My Elac has something similar like aluminium a bit darker color. I don't think they used titanium 40 years a go.
My Dual just arrived, I tested sound so-so not to bad. The arm lift does not stop when I lift up the arm. I do not care about that much these will be a donor.
It run very smooth, better than the Elac from that point..
The Dual plinth a piece of art work..... junk
Please do not forget I want to use 2 arm on these deck. One 9-10" and one as long as possible. May be like yours..
Graphite or carbon fibre is better (I think they are the same but you have more experience, DIY TT knowledge)
Thanks again
Greetings Gabor
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File Type: jpg IMG_0005.JPG (59.7 KB, 269 views)
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Old 4th February 2012, 03:28 AM   #5
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Hello Nannok

These what I asked from you. Where the needle (stylus) run on the record.
It must be some rule. Or the stylus is round that all?
I tested several TT and all different. Now I don't know what to do. If I have problem with the 9" tone arm angle what will happen with the longer arm?
Look at my picture you can see what I'm talking about
With several arm I start at the same point but when the arm at the last number all different. Sometimes more than 1cm..
On the paper I made only one arm angle. After I realised all different I gave up because it would be a mess, it would be hard to understand what I'm talking.
I think the Thorens arm was 8".
I will see when I receive the Linn head shell if I can use that for a 9-10 inch arm or for the long arm..
That does not feet these tube..
Greetings Gabor
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Old 4th February 2012, 03:46 AM   #6
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Hello Nannok

About the cartridge angle I can adjust that . Please look at the blue line I ad. The blue line parallel with your red. Those screws let me to adjust the angle. The 2 screw attached to the hand lift not to the head shell.
Or the stylus must be in the center of the arm that is a rule?
I think I can use it as a 9" arm. If you not advise I'll make another head shell in that way so I can adjust that angle more.
That angle on the red paper is important because I use two arm. I must know how big must be the plinth..
They cut the material at the Home Depot if is to small that a waste of money if is to big same. I do not want a diner table size deck.
What is the size of your deck. That would give some idea for the long arm which is the most important to me

Greetings Gabor
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File Type: jpg armtube.jpg (37.2 KB, 255 views)
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Old 4th February 2012, 04:16 AM   #7
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default correct angles...

The angles are measured from a horizontal line to the angle indicated they also correspond to the O/S angles. The bottom diagram is what seems to be there now. The middle diagram would be accurate if the long outside edge is parallel to the centreline of the tube. The top diagram is if the short inside edge is aligned with the centreline of the tube.

This of course assumes that I traced out the headshell correctly. If you follow the method I used for my tonearm, all I did was mount the cartridge, guess where the tonearm pivot should go, based on a 15mm O/H. I then verified it using the Oracle protractor.

The top diagram is not to the correct scale, but the angles are still accurate.

Once you set the tonearm length , and assume a O/H distance, then it can be pretty easy to place the tonearm base/pivot.
Attached Images
File Type: png S angles.png (54.5 KB, 254 views)
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Last edited by Nanook; 4th February 2012 at 04:20 AM. Reason: added comment.
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Old 4th February 2012, 06:32 AM   #8
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Hello Nannok

You right, I did measured to the Dual 505 II and really out of angle.
How did Thorens used that with straight arm? These useless and I paid $70 for it. Thank God the Shure V15 type IV cartridge is good came with these arm.
That will return my money hopefully.
If I see that earlier I would not cut the arm..
Can you post a picture from your arm please from the cartridge side. If I see well you went all the way straight. If any trick there please explaned to me..
If I can use traight arm with the type of head shell U use that would be the best.
Thank you very much.

Greetings Gabor

Last edited by gaborbela; 4th February 2012 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 4th February 2012, 08:06 AM   #9
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Hello Nannok

Do you have any idea how hard to cut carbon fibre or drill it.
I do not think I can cut with hex saw.
I want to build my head shell to. I'm sick and tired to waste money on garbage head shells.
Or do you have better idea for head shell.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/150734453877?...84.m1423.l2648
That titanium not bad but I have to bend it 90 degree. I have no machine to bang it with hammer that stupid idea. I can't weld it also.
For carbon fibre there is a special strong glue to make the mounting side 2 or 3x2mm and one piece 2mm where I mouth the cartridge. Make it L shape.
I see some carbon fibre head shell sell $200 or more. Can't be bad for that price.
I just don't know if I can cut it straight. Probably diamond ceramic cuter would do the job.
I go with straight arm and head shell like yours and drill the 2 whole in angle.
Sorry for so many question but I would like to go forward with these project and waste as little money as possible.
I hope these Linn head shell will be better for $30 with shipping
Please do not forget the picture from your arm from the buttom side. or the top but just the arm (close picture) so I can see the details.
Greetings Gabor
Attached Images
File Type: jpg $(KGrHqRHJDgE7y+t434HBPBOq80eVw~~60_12.jpg (28.2 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg $(KGrHqJHJC!E7zG,CvnSBPG5)4mZsw~~60_12.jpg (14.5 KB, 40 views)
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Old 4th February 2012, 11:50 PM   #10
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
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Default Oracle Alex MkII resto mod ideas and comments to gabby...

... here's my idea for a resto-mod for my Oracle Alex MkII turntable:
I'd like to update my Alex MkII, but it would mean creating a DIY version of the Delphi, albeit uglier. One thing I have considered is removing all of the electronics from the plinth (there are 3 or 4 boards IIRC), and putting them into an external enclosure. Then a umbilical for power to the motor. Then I could make a simple plinth to replace the plastic one. It would look like an Alex MKII, but removes a lot of the apparent problems . Also I think a Pederson type mod for the suspension would make a lot of sense, and the ability to mount a counterweight as per the newer Delphi turntable. This would perhaps be better described as a "resto-mod", except everything would essentially be invisible and there are no electronic upgrades. The only suspension upgrades would be getting rid of the conical springs.

gabby: One ought to consider the arm that these headshells come from and what arm you plan to use. One of absolutely the easiest "headshells" to make is one that really isn't. Have a look at the attached picture.
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File Type: png scheu hs.png (159.9 KB, 71 views)
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