Hiten,
However, a high compliance cart is more prone to cantiliver deflecion, caused by anti-skating device in pivot arms, and to similar deflection in true linear arms- but for a different reason (arm mass). As well, as torsion rotation of cantiliver by the same reasons. IMHO high compliance carts do have very questionable advantages.
However, a high compliance cart is more prone to cantiliver deflecion, caused by anti-skating device in pivot arms, and to similar deflection in true linear arms- but for a different reason (arm mass). As well, as torsion rotation of cantiliver by the same reasons. IMHO high compliance carts do have very questionable advantages.
I totally agree with this. I've designed and built my own unipivot arms with that criteria and have found all the claimed advantages to be true. Note, proper damping with unipivot arms is a MUST. A unipivot bearing is easy to make DIY and I've found it to be the bearing of choice.
Ray K
The Bunny is back in service and seems to be behaving well. The pin in the front pulley and the clamp on the back pulley eliminate belt slip so the arm does not go out of alignment from handling. So far the biggest frustration is making the pillar and its collar exactly perpendicular. Fortunately, they are close and the three screws in the collar allow final adjustments.
Carlo,
I think I see DNA from my double arm in the 3D arm, but after its geometry was translated to the Rabbit's pulleys and then further translated to the new arm, I think maybe a new creature has evolved.
I hope some of the followers of this thread who have been reluctant to build will try your wood and fabric hinge design. It's a remarkably simple way for potential builders to get a taste of what a PLT can do as well as a good way to test new geometries.
Carlo,
I think I see DNA from my double arm in the 3D arm, but after its geometry was translated to the Rabbit's pulleys and then further translated to the new arm, I think maybe a new creature has evolved.
I hope some of the followers of this thread who have been reluctant to build will try your wood and fabric hinge design. It's a remarkably simple way for potential builders to get a taste of what a PLT can do as well as a good way to test new geometries.
...But I don't see any relation with offset error - Icsaszar
Geometrically completely true, but making practical measurements for the stylus drag at 0 offset (# 1548 - 1569 - 1590-95) I noticed surprising anomalies with respect to what is commonly said, and not only for values: unlinear relation with VTF, increasing drag from outer to middle grooves.
I also made some quick tests by rotating the cartridge a few degrees (tracking error), noting a clear increase in the SD. So it seems that there is an indirect relationship - side pushing a cart, instead that in line, increases frictions: more drag > more skating
Instead I have not tryed a test with traditional offset (22-23 °) because I had to change too much the set up. Maybe the great differences between my measures (at 0° offset) and those calculated with the stopping method (traditional offset) have something to do with this.
Yes, and stiff tonearm wires, too. It seems nobody discusses those issues - WalterWalter
Yes, cables play a great role, simply mechanical: the way they brake the rotation, or the points where they touch the shaft (resonances) may have a lot to do with many of the legends that circulate: just rewire twice your arm with the same cables, hearing carefully to understand what I mean.
I think I see DNA from my double arm in the 3D arm, but after its geometry was translated to the Rabbit's pulleys and then further translated to the new arm, I think maybe a new creature has evolved.- Dtut
Yes - and this is the advantage that diyers have on professionals: they have to experiment on their own to keep safe their "trade secrets", we can discuss and use our and other's work and mistakes to go further.
The improvement hoped for this new DII arm (Does It Itself -arm) is to avoid ball-bearings. What do you say to call it TOY-ARM?
My friend made me some test prints: measures and stiffness ok, but not so good finish. Now I'm changing a bit the drawings to simplify the post processing.
carlo
Geometrically completely true, but making practical measurements for the stylus drag at 0 offset (# 1548 - 1569 - 1590-95) I noticed surprising anomalies with respect to what is commonly said, and not only for values: unlinear relation with VTF, increasing drag from outer to middle grooves.
I also made some quick tests by rotating the cartridge a few degrees (tracking error), noting a clear increase in the SD. So it seems that there is an indirect relationship - side pushing a cart, instead that in line, increases frictions: more drag > more skating
Instead I have not tryed a test with traditional offset (22-23 °) because I had to change too much the set up. Maybe the great differences between my measures (at 0° offset) and those calculated with the stopping method (traditional offset) have something to do with this.
Yes, and stiff tonearm wires, too. It seems nobody discusses those issues - WalterWalter
Yes, cables play a great role, simply mechanical: the way they brake the rotation, or the points where they touch the shaft (resonances) may have a lot to do with many of the legends that circulate: just rewire twice your arm with the same cables, hearing carefully to understand what I mean.
I think I see DNA from my double arm in the 3D arm, but after its geometry was translated to the Rabbit's pulleys and then further translated to the new arm, I think maybe a new creature has evolved.- Dtut
Yes - and this is the advantage that diyers have on professionals: they have to experiment on their own to keep safe their "trade secrets", we can discuss and use our and other's work and mistakes to go further.
The improvement hoped for this new DII arm (Does It Itself -arm) is to avoid ball-bearings. What do you say to call it TOY-ARM?
My friend made me some test prints: measures and stiffness ok, but not so good finish. Now I'm changing a bit the drawings to simplify the post processing.
carlo
Hello diyrayk,
I have yet to see a video of the Klaudio arm actually playing a record, stylus in groove. Over the last several years I have designed and built a pivoting tangential tone arm that has ZERO tracking error, does NOT skate and is driven by record drag only. On top of that, it even tracks in a straight line. It has, what I call a passive servo, that evens out the variations in the drag force. And, if I may borrow your flame-proof suit for a moment, I proclaim that it is impossible to design a pivoting tangential tone arm as described above without the use of some kind of control servo.
I will probably post some pictures of my tone arm in the next few weeks.
And I will also post a video of the arm once I figure out how that is done.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Hello David,
I carried it in a transparent case. Oh well
Back then the servo wasn't finished.
Sincerely,
Ralf
Not trying to 'throw a cat amongst the pigeons' but having just read a review of the Viv Rigid Float Tonearm I wonder if we are wasting our time on this quest !!!!
This is a straight arm with no offset, aligns at only one point, and the short version performs as well as if not better than the long version ! The reviewer raves about it. WTF.
This is a straight arm with no offset, aligns at only one point, and the short version performs as well as if not better than the long version ! The reviewer raves about it. WTF.
"Time you enjoy wasting is not time wasted"
Also the time invested here is based on facts and not opinion.
That said, that arm might sound great, no idea.
Guys, Hasn't Her Schroder done this also? With the added benefit of dampening for high compliance carts? Without servo. It isn't that easy to build a clone or setup, however.
Guys, Hasn't Her Schroder done this also? With the added benefit of dampening for high compliance carts? Without servo. It isn't that easy to build a clone or setup, however.
Yes and no. Frank Schroder's patent #8576687 does not mention anything about damping. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual production arm incorporated some proprietary design features related to that.The patent does address skating, and suggests that it is on the order of lateral arm bearing friction. I suspect, though, that it will fail the "string test".
IMO Frank's magnetic arm is the most sophisticated and practical implementation of pivoted linear trackers as a commercial product, and near impossible to DIY.
Ray K
And with loads of tracking error when it gets way off the null point, and it skates anyway, except at the null point. Before raving about this arm, did the reviewer also rave about the benefits of cartridge alignment and the different schools of thought on alignment methods? This cat has no claws.
Ray K
If I remember it correctly, I read what they said on their website. They said that they designed their arms that way in order to avoid skating. Actually, they are utterly wrong. Their arms still skate. In addition to skating force, I simply don't believe tracking errors are irrelevant to quality of playing back although I do believe skating force is the main factor to degrade the sound of pivot arms.
Last edited:
floating some non-rigid concepts
The Viv Rigid Float tonearm has been covered here before. Of course I suspect not every member goes through over 1700 posts! The Viv designer simply sacrificed tracking error for something else, whatever that may be, that he believes is more important. That's it. This arm is jut another variant of the RS Labs arm with pivoting headshell arm with underhang alignment and that also has its sonic supporters. Sounding good is different from sounding right.
To say that his arm with no offset heashell angle solves the Grand Old Tangential Issue, GOTI, and renders the pursuit a waste of time is ridiculous. Ray is right, this cat has no claws and meows too loudly.
The Viv Rigid Float tonearm has been covered here before. Of course I suspect not every member goes through over 1700 posts! The Viv designer simply sacrificed tracking error for something else, whatever that may be, that he believes is more important. That's it. This arm is jut another variant of the RS Labs arm with pivoting headshell arm with underhang alignment and that also has its sonic supporters. Sounding good is different from sounding right.
To say that his arm with no offset heashell angle solves the Grand Old Tangential Issue, GOTI, and renders the pursuit a waste of time is ridiculous. Ray is right, this cat has no claws and meows too loudly.
Ray I think the Schroder arm did pass a blank record test, isn't that as(more?) stringent having to overcome both skating and bearing and wire forces? So maybe it can be setup to pass a string test? I'm building a Schroder LT clone, almost to the test phase so will be doing that string test soon. And I'll post some pics.