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Old 21st November 2009, 07:08 PM   #1
gpapag is online now gpapag  Greece
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Default Head Pre for Denon DL 103

Hi all

I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
A lot of tube schematics on the web and many with discrete semiconductors also to choose from.
During the search ,I had a look at AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf

Specifications look fantastic, ease of building/ space/ cost all very good.
I would like to ask the participants of this forum if anyone has built it, any opinions and any possible drawbacks of this implementation.

Best Regards
George
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Old 21st November 2009, 10:14 PM   #2
andyr is offline andyr  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
Hi all

I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
A lot of tube schematics on the web and many with discrete semiconductors also to choose from.
During the search ,I had a look at AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf

Specifications look fantastic, ease of building/ space/ cost all very good.
I would like to ask the participants of this forum if anyone has built it, any opinions and any possible drawbacks of this implementation.

Best Regards
George
Hi George,

You could do a lot worse than buy the (JFET-based, battery-powered) AKSA "Paris".

For comments on its performance, see Joachim Gerhardt's posts in this thread:
Mpp

(on this page and earlier).

I use one with my Benz Ebony LP - magic!

Regards,

Andy
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Old 21st November 2009, 11:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
Hi George,

I built a Hagerman Piccolo for my 103, before I had the opportunity to try a friends CineMag 3440 step-up trans. The CineMags's were more musical and detailed compared to the Piccolo. This is a no brainer for the Denon, especially considering the price.

Jeff
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Old 22nd November 2009, 07:28 PM   #4
gpapag is online now gpapag  Greece
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Thank you Andy and Jeff.
Both recommendations are not very expensive, but they are over my current "budget"
I have to build something using parts I already have (plus 10-20 Euros for new).
It's time to do my homework

Best Regards
George
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Old 23rd November 2009, 10:27 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
Hi all

I would like to build a MC head preamplifier for a Denon DL-103 cartridge.
A lot of tube schematics on the web and many with discrete semiconductors also to choose from.
During the search ,I had a look at AN-222 Fig.4 http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-222.pdf

Specifications look fantastic, ease of building/ space/ cost all very good.
I would like to ask the participants of this forum if anyone has built it, any opinions and any possible drawbacks of this implementation.

Best Regards
George
Here some commercial MC prepre versions, that I have heard in combination with the DL-103 (very good results):
Tube Audio Sound GmbH
1) passive solution - transformer:
/index.html?d_TM3_AMPLIMO_TM3_Mikrofon_Transformato r_1_15452.htm
LeBong | 6SL7Phonovorstufe
2) Dual matched Transistor like National Semiconductor AN-222 inside of Musical Fidelity "The Preamp" (see attachement)
3) NAD PP-2 (PP2 see attachement)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf C_Musical Fidelity -The Preamp_ckt.pdf (27.9 KB, 242 views)
File Type: pdf C_tmp_NAD RIAA MM-MC_ckt.pdf (36.1 KB, 259 views)
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Old 23rd November 2009, 04:18 PM   #6
gpapag is online now gpapag  Greece
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Hi tiefbassuebertr

I feel that you try to make me skip my homework

Thank you very much for your infos and links.
All of them seem to be within my capabilities.

Have you listened to all of them?
The two AMPLIMO x-formers (1:5 & 1:15) seem particularly attractive.

If you tell me that you were satisfied with their performance, I may purchase one and build something to match their output.

Best Regards
George
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Old 23rd November 2009, 07:05 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
Hi tiefbassuebertr
Have you listened to all of them?
Best Regards
George
Yes, but not at the same time for directly comparsion and unfortunately by different combinations of line- and power amplifiers and loudspeakers.

So it is hard to say, what of my three proposals I would prefer. Therefore I would try to buy used devices of this models include the transformers for check out the advantages and disadvantages. After make your decision, you can sell the devices you don't prefer. So you have no great disadvantages regarded the costs, because you haven't buy as new. Here some weblinks for used devices (Amplimo I don't find used):
IMG_0238.JPG (image)
Musical Fidelity The Preamp 2A MM/MC Phono - eBay Pre Amplifiers, Amplifiers, Audio, Electronics. (end time 13-Oct-09 17:06:12 AEDST)
(no bidding)
NAD PP 2 Phono Vorverstärker MM u. MC - neuwertig! on eBay (end time 30-Nov-09 21:04:43 GMT)
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Old 25th November 2009, 08:38 AM   #8
gpapag is online now gpapag  Greece
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Hi all

With the mm cartridges, there seems to be a consensus that they are treated as voltage output devices.
With the mc cartridges (I am a newbe to this) there are two schools of thought:
One is that it is a voltage output device.
The other is that it is a current output device.

The published specs for the DL 103 are:
Output: 0.3mV
Resistance:40R
Inductance:?

So I would appreciate is someone could explain if –and why- the head preamplifier for the DL 103 should be:
1) V/V
2) I/V
(I think that I should not consider the I/I and V/I options, or should’t I ?)

tiefbassuebertr, thank you for your last answer.

Best Regards
George
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Old 25th November 2009, 09:45 AM   #9
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Hello George

first of all, I can't recommend a tube amplifier as "Head amp" or dteo-up device for a DL103 - or any MC cartridge. I have build some with different tubes and the problems are microphonics and hum / hiss.

Assuming you have an MM phono pre I'd recommend a step-up transformer with ratio 1:10 or 1:20 with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103. This works perfect in my system.

Best regards
Joao
Althea Musica
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Old 28th November 2009, 01:13 PM   #10
gpapag is online now gpapag  Greece
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Joao
Thanks for sharing your experience.
For now, I will go active (SS)

When you say "...with a load impedance of ~100 ohm at the DL103" you mean 100R that is reflected from the secondary towards the primary of the x-former (the load that DL103 sees through the x-former)?

Best Regards
George
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