I do rinse, but just to "be sure," I'm guessing it's not needed with a vacuum machine. The vacuum sucks the fluid off really well, though sometimes at the right light I've seen a little bit of wetness in the grooves that evaporates in about 15 seconds. So I do "attempt" a rinsing step. The water really beads up on the LP after the cleaning. I try to put enough water on to go over the whole grooved surface, but if it finds a "path" over the edge, substantial amounts spill off. I usually don't try to brush or anything with the rinse step, just pour it on and suck it off.
I have cleaned well over a 100 lp's now and think I am settled on a diy formula.
Alconox mixed per specs, thanks benb, and two ounces of sporiciden I linked in a post above. Like the combination best because it dries uniformly witout a residue unlike the alcohol based formulas. Haven't tried this formula without rinsing but may give that a shot. When built the dryer I also built a wash basin that looks the same without holes and fans of course. I am using it for a washdown of a few minutes.
This is what I will be working on this week.
The UL machine I am using was picked because it had a drain. The drain also had a inline heater. The heater and drain is being removed and wil be replaced with a inline fuel pump and filter. The pump is 12vdc so a 120vac to 12vdc power supply is needed. This pump only draws 1 amp so the switching power supply doesn't have to be too big. I have a 4 amp power supply on hand t get it working but will go with a 1.2 amp one once all of the bugs are worked out. Since the heater won't be used I can use it's on/off switch to control the pump. Two valves will be used, one to recirculate (clean solution) and the other as a drain (pumpout).
Down the road I may build a diy loricraft design like Turbine to try out. There are a few other diy version on the net. I think my dryer is doing a good job but turbines experience seems worthy to try.
Brad
Alconox mixed per specs, thanks benb, and two ounces of sporiciden I linked in a post above. Like the combination best because it dries uniformly witout a residue unlike the alcohol based formulas. Haven't tried this formula without rinsing but may give that a shot. When built the dryer I also built a wash basin that looks the same without holes and fans of course. I am using it for a washdown of a few minutes.
This is what I will be working on this week.
The UL machine I am using was picked because it had a drain. The drain also had a inline heater. The heater and drain is being removed and wil be replaced with a inline fuel pump and filter. The pump is 12vdc so a 120vac to 12vdc power supply is needed. This pump only draws 1 amp so the switching power supply doesn't have to be too big. I have a 4 amp power supply on hand t get it working but will go with a 1.2 amp one once all of the bugs are worked out. Since the heater won't be used I can use it's on/off switch to control the pump. Two valves will be used, one to recirculate (clean solution) and the other as a drain (pumpout).
Down the road I may build a diy loricraft design like Turbine to try out. There are a few other diy version on the net. I think my dryer is doing a good job but turbines experience seems worthy to try.
Brad
cleaning
The actual proof of how well you are cleaning your records is what is left on your stylus after an album is played. Have a look at your stylus under a 30x magnification , if you have deposits on your stylus your album is not clean. Before i started cleaning with the ultrasonic cleaner i found white deposits and hairs and fuzz on my stylus. Now almost all of the white residue is gone and only occasionally i get a few stray pieces of dust that have settled from the air. Removal of static electricity from the album is also very important after it is cleaned. The VPI generates more static electricity than the Loricraft type cleaner . I now use a Zero stat 3 to reduce the static charge on the album before playback and i get a huge reduction in pops and crackles.
I should also mention that unless you have a very hi resolution playback system you may not notice the benefits of removing every last " drop " of cleaning fluid from your album. I use a Phantom tonearm with a ZYX cartridge tracking at only 1.4 gr , so any debris shows up in the playback since this stylus rides very deep in the groove and has very light tracking force. Cleaning your stylus after you play every side is very important i use this method
AudiogoN Forums: DIY stylus-cleaning magic long
found it to be the best for me.
Extreme cleanliness is very crucial for good sound.
Todd
The actual proof of how well you are cleaning your records is what is left on your stylus after an album is played. Have a look at your stylus under a 30x magnification , if you have deposits on your stylus your album is not clean. Before i started cleaning with the ultrasonic cleaner i found white deposits and hairs and fuzz on my stylus. Now almost all of the white residue is gone and only occasionally i get a few stray pieces of dust that have settled from the air. Removal of static electricity from the album is also very important after it is cleaned. The VPI generates more static electricity than the Loricraft type cleaner . I now use a Zero stat 3 to reduce the static charge on the album before playback and i get a huge reduction in pops and crackles.
I should also mention that unless you have a very hi resolution playback system you may not notice the benefits of removing every last " drop " of cleaning fluid from your album. I use a Phantom tonearm with a ZYX cartridge tracking at only 1.4 gr , so any debris shows up in the playback since this stylus rides very deep in the groove and has very light tracking force. Cleaning your stylus after you play every side is very important i use this method
AudiogoN Forums: DIY stylus-cleaning magic long
found it to be the best for me.
Extreme cleanliness is very crucial for good sound.
Todd
With my vacuum machine I've found the static generated has everything to do with the fluid used. Years ago I experimented a little with formulas containing alcohol, and as the record played it had loud pops, in different places on consecutive plays (I don't generally play an LP more than once per session, but I was wondering if these pops were actual surface defects), leading me to strongly suspect static electricity. I recall that a quick re-cleaning with standard Alconox mixture eliminated the problem.
I've not had any obvious build-up on the stylus (AT440ML) since using vacuum cleaning, but I've not taken a really close up look through a magnifier either.
I've not had any obvious build-up on the stylus (AT440ML) since using vacuum cleaning, but I've not taken a really close up look through a magnifier either.
I heat it up to 40 deg Celsius.
For some thick LP 45 deg Celsius also Ok.
Above 50 deg Celsius disk may be bent.
Re: the water, my recollection for this and all other cleaners is to use triple distilled water. No need for solvents, detergents or other additives in the ultrasonic cleaner. But, of course, if you can only get plain distilled water in your area, I'd use it. And if you only have soft (as you say) tap water, my guess is the contents of that water is sufficient. You may have more deposits on your records than if you used triple distilled, but then, you'll have less than if you didn't clean them at all... It's all relative, isn't it.
I use distilled water that i make myself, it is just single distilled but if you can get triple distilled even better. I then mix in 2 ounces of Audio Intelligent # 2 step cleaning fluid ,which is a very pure alcohol solution into the 1 gallon of water.
I have found the most important part is to ensure you completely remove all the cleaning solution from the LP before it dries or you will have noise left behind.
If you want to try this just ultrasonic clean the album and then allow it to dry , now play it and see how noisy it is , then re-clean and vacuum it and you will notice the difference . Using triple distilled water would probably help cause it will leave less deposits behind. You will be amazed at how much crud you get off the lp even though you think it is clean. The more albums you clean using the same water the more important it is the vacuum of the cleaning fluid cause it becomes dirtier every time an album is cleaned.
Todd
I have found the most important part is to ensure you completely remove all the cleaning solution from the LP before it dries or you will have noise left behind.
If you want to try this just ultrasonic clean the album and then allow it to dry , now play it and see how noisy it is , then re-clean and vacuum it and you will notice the difference . Using triple distilled water would probably help cause it will leave less deposits behind. You will be amazed at how much crud you get off the lp even though you think it is clean. The more albums you clean using the same water the more important it is the vacuum of the cleaning fluid cause it becomes dirtier every time an album is cleaned.
Todd
I'm on the verge of putting together a system like what Turbine uses... Ultrasonics for the bulk cleaning & loosening / solubilizing contaminants, followed by a Percy Williams (Loricraft, Keith Monks) vacuum for drying. My theory on the latter is that the high air velocities around the small nozzle are more effective at pulling all of the cleaning fluid and dissolved / floating filth out of the groove compared to other drying techniques. As I start getting my drying machine together, I'll post to a thread on that subject.
But returning to the subject of this thread, I am still a bit nervous about using ultrasonics and the potential for damage. This seems to have been tested fairly well by some, but I recall reading here somewhere about pitting / ultrasonics causing bubbles moulded into the record surface to rupture, causing cavities which can take out your stylus. I really, really, don't want that to happen!!!
One of the key things I've learned reading about ultrasonics, is that the frequency matters. Higher frequency creates smaller bubbles which implode with less energy, and are therefore gentler on surfaces, but are also more effective on smaller particles.
It seems the majority of cleaning tanks on eBay are 40kHz units, though I see one which operates at 55kHz. What frequency are people using? Any problems with damage?
Is the pitting risk just urban legend? Would love to hear from people about their experiences with USC.
But returning to the subject of this thread, I am still a bit nervous about using ultrasonics and the potential for damage. This seems to have been tested fairly well by some, but I recall reading here somewhere about pitting / ultrasonics causing bubbles moulded into the record surface to rupture, causing cavities which can take out your stylus. I really, really, don't want that to happen!!!
One of the key things I've learned reading about ultrasonics, is that the frequency matters. Higher frequency creates smaller bubbles which implode with less energy, and are therefore gentler on surfaces, but are also more effective on smaller particles.
It seems the majority of cleaning tanks on eBay are 40kHz units, though I see one which operates at 55kHz. What frequency are people using? Any problems with damage?
Is the pitting risk just urban legend? Would love to hear from people about their experiences with USC.
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Just wondering what the ideal motor rpm is?
I was thinking of using the 0.45rpm motor here: http://www.servocity.com/html/dayton_gear_motors__12v_.html
But would it be too slow?
I was thinking of using the 0.45rpm motor here: http://www.servocity.com/html/dayton_gear_motors__12v_.html
But would it be too slow?
I have heard of pits appearing during cleaning that have ruined a stylus but have had no issues so far.
My Eumax 6.5 L ultrasonic cleaner runs at 42KHZ.
For rotating the record during cleaning i use an old radio control servo that has been rewired to run continuous with a 10 ohm pot to control the speed. I have found about 1 rpm is good this allows the water to drain off the album and not run over the label. Once the record has been cleaned for a while the water follows the grooves around and drips off the bottom .
The Dayton gear motor would work great , i would recommend going with the model up for a little more speed maybe the 1.5 rpm or 3.4 rpm. The motor can always be slowed down but once it is running at full speed it can't go any faster. Not a lot of torque is required to rotate the album . These rpm's are rated at 12 v and can be reduced with a pot or resistor.
A .5 amp walwart would be more than enough to power this unit.
Todd
My Eumax 6.5 L ultrasonic cleaner runs at 42KHZ.
For rotating the record during cleaning i use an old radio control servo that has been rewired to run continuous with a 10 ohm pot to control the speed. I have found about 1 rpm is good this allows the water to drain off the album and not run over the label. Once the record has been cleaned for a while the water follows the grooves around and drips off the bottom .
The Dayton gear motor would work great , i would recommend going with the model up for a little more speed maybe the 1.5 rpm or 3.4 rpm. The motor can always be slowed down but once it is running at full speed it can't go any faster. Not a lot of torque is required to rotate the album . These rpm's are rated at 12 v and can be reduced with a pot or resistor.
A .5 amp walwart would be more than enough to power this unit.
Todd
Thanks Turbine, good to know. The more I search, it seems the less I can find about this supposed pitting problem (!?!).
Anyway, the R/C servo is a good idea - I've got a bunch of old ones which should do nicely. Previously, I was considering the Tamiya planetary gear motor kit. That might still be a good option for someone.
Also in the meantime I've picked up an inexpensive linear-tracking turntable and a KNF vacuum pump to use as the basis for my drying machine. The turntable is computerized, so I'll have to figure out how to trick the CPU into doing the arm movements I want, but I have the service manual and it looks do-able.
More later...
Anyway, the R/C servo is a good idea - I've got a bunch of old ones which should do nicely. Previously, I was considering the Tamiya planetary gear motor kit. That might still be a good option for someone.
Also in the meantime I've picked up an inexpensive linear-tracking turntable and a KNF vacuum pump to use as the basis for my drying machine. The turntable is computerized, so I'll have to figure out how to trick the CPU into doing the arm movements I want, but I have the service manual and it looks do-able.
More later...
Mention of the alleged pitting problem brings up another question for me. As I look back over the pictures in the first 50 or so posts, I see perhaps a dozen LP's in the tank, separated by perhaps 1/2 to 1/4 inch. Does the ultrasonic sound pass through the water and into the area between LP's as well as it does to the two outside LP surfaces? I'm wondering about the volume level of the ultrasound and whether it's at the same level between the LP's as in other areas of the water, and whether it cleans as effectively on all the surfaces.
I don't (yet) have an ultrasonic tank, but I'm rather anal retentive with my vacuum RCM when playing an LP I haven't cleaned before (I generally record to computer while playing and use the computer file for later playback, and so rarely play a physical LP more than once). I clean only one side of an LP and then play it, then clean the other side and play it. I do with with the assumption that the turntable mat may have dust that is picked up by the LP, and I might as well wait to clean that side until I'm ready to play it rather than have it perfectly clean, then pick up some dust from the mat. With this or a similar system that cleans both sides, I'd feel the need to vacuum off the turntable mat before putting a clean LP on it that I intend to play the bottom side.
I don't (yet) have an ultrasonic tank, but I'm rather anal retentive with my vacuum RCM when playing an LP I haven't cleaned before (I generally record to computer while playing and use the computer file for later playback, and so rarely play a physical LP more than once). I clean only one side of an LP and then play it, then clean the other side and play it. I do with with the assumption that the turntable mat may have dust that is picked up by the LP, and I might as well wait to clean that side until I'm ready to play it rather than have it perfectly clean, then pick up some dust from the mat. With this or a similar system that cleans both sides, I'd feel the need to vacuum off the turntable mat before putting a clean LP on it that I intend to play the bottom side.
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I'm about to embark on a completely DIY ultrasonic cleaner. I have purchase a couple of ultrasonic inductors on ebay. I'm looking to hook them up to an amp and generate the signal wave from a laptop soundcard.
The inductors are rated at 55w, I want to generate a 40-45khz signal. Does anyone know of a good cheap amplifier that can handle ultrasonic frequencies maybe up to 50kHz? I believe I'll need something that produce 55w RMS. Someone recommended a Pyle Pro PT-2000, I'm looking to spend as little as possible.
At some point I'd like to replace the laptop with something that can generate a 40-50khz tone. Any pointers on constructing something like this?
The inductors are rated at 55w, I want to generate a 40-45khz signal. Does anyone know of a good cheap amplifier that can handle ultrasonic frequencies maybe up to 50kHz? I believe I'll need something that produce 55w RMS. Someone recommended a Pyle Pro PT-2000, I'm looking to spend as little as possible.
At some point I'd like to replace the laptop with something that can generate a 40-50khz tone. Any pointers on constructing something like this?
As that eumax ultrasound cleaner can have 10 or more records in it at a time, how many sets of records do you wash before you change the washing fluid?
This interests me as if I need to fill the machine with 4-5 liters of clean water+etanol etc. it'll get somewhat expensive to be changing the fluids every two or three sets.
This interests me as if I need to fill the machine with 4-5 liters of clean water+etanol etc. it'll get somewhat expensive to be changing the fluids every two or three sets.
And answering to myself, the eumax cleaner heats the water inside to 40 degrees celsius in 1,5hours which means I can wash three sets of records before changing fluids. But as I'm using plain tap water with a dash of etanol costs stay low.
It seems that my expectations on the efficiency of this cleaning method were too great. There are some sticky mold-like stuff and grease spots that just won't come off even after multiple washes, yes, I have a lot of second hand vinyl.
I kind of thought that this would explode everything off the vinyl surface.
Basic dirt comes off fine, and records do actually sound clean, even if the record has ticks and pops the overall feeling is of a clean detailed sound. This is a good solution for efficient mass-cleaning of your record collection and overall I'm very happy with the results.
It seems that my expectations on the efficiency of this cleaning method were too great. There are some sticky mold-like stuff and grease spots that just won't come off even after multiple washes, yes, I have a lot of second hand vinyl.
I kind of thought that this would explode everything off the vinyl surface.
Basic dirt comes off fine, and records do actually sound clean, even if the record has ticks and pops the overall feeling is of a clean detailed sound. This is a good solution for efficient mass-cleaning of your record collection and overall I'm very happy with the results.
I dont think your laptop sound card can proceede 40-45 KHz, for that purpose you should build an oscillator, there are a lot circuits with NE555 on net. Its very important what is the resonant frequency of the transducers you want to use.
Abt amp, i think any hi-fi amplifier can be good for that purpose, just if you want to use 2 transducers, you will need an amp of 110W minimum.
The cheapest aproach would be to build an amplifier based on some TDA. It could be 2 x TDA2030 in bridge mode per transducer.
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