Hi all,
I'll shortly be in need of some very good sounding signal relays with these specifications:
- Good sounding i.e. preferably "no sound"/influence on the signal
- should be able to handle ~1A when connecting
- should have two "break & connects" (don't know if this is what it's called),
- low power i.e. <= 140 mW
- not too difficult to source either in Europe or at Mouser.
Might one of you know which relays are considered the best sounding - and also not too expensive - relays around?
Thanks for any insights on this you may have ;-)
Jesper
I'll shortly be in need of some very good sounding signal relays with these specifications:
- Good sounding i.e. preferably "no sound"/influence on the signal
- should be able to handle ~1A when connecting
- should have two "break & connects" (don't know if this is what it's called),
- low power i.e. <= 140 mW
- not too difficult to source either in Europe or at Mouser.
Might one of you know which relays are considered the best sounding - and also not too expensive - relays around?
Thanks for any insights on this you may have ;-)
Jesper
Not to derail the thread but thank GOD there's someone here who said exactly what I would've said.
JonSnell I'd like to see a double blind test where you can repeatably tell me when there is a generic, off the shelf crap relay vs no relay at all.
Sorry about being so argumentative but this "its a connection" type thinking is why I feel ashamed to call myself an audiophile, people will get the wrong idea about me.
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What is your application? You say 'signal relay', but 1A is a bit high for a small-signal relay. For small signals, you want a relay with specifications and contact metalurgy tailored to low-level signals. The Panasonic TX series (-1 versions) is an example. For higher power, you must be concerned about the degenerating effects of hot switching and other issues.
Hi all,
Hmmm... thanks for your replies ... As it is I'd rather stay out of discussing whether or not relays/cables are audible but have looked into the pickering & Panasonic suggestions mentioned here ...
@BrianL: When searching the internet and also on Mouser I can find a TX2 series but no TX1s. Could it be that the TX1 is an older version - or could it be written differently?
Best regards,
Jesper
Hmmm... thanks for your replies ... As it is I'd rather stay out of discussing whether or not relays/cables are audible but have looked into the pickering & Panasonic suggestions mentioned here ...
@BrianL: When searching the internet and also on Mouser I can find a TX2 series but no TX1s. Could it be that the TX1 is an older version - or could it be written differently?
Best regards,
Jesper
Panasonic AGN series
10μA 10 mV DC
Omron G6K series
10 μA at 10 mVDC
TE Connectivity IM series
Minimum switching voltage 100μV
Initial contact resistance <50mΩ at 10mA/30mV
Thermoelectric potential <10μV
I have used Omron and TE types for our test equipment.
Signal relays and characteristics like the above are what to look for.
If a relay does not have a listing for the above characteristics I do not consider it a signal relay...but that is just me.
10μA 10 mV DC
Omron G6K series
10 μA at 10 mVDC
TE Connectivity IM series
Minimum switching voltage 100μV
Initial contact resistance <50mΩ at 10mA/30mV
Thermoelectric potential <10μV
I have used Omron and TE types for our test equipment.
Signal relays and characteristics like the above are what to look for.
If a relay does not have a listing for the above characteristics I do not consider it a signal relay...but that is just me.
@Bonsai & DUG:
Thanks for your input - I'll look into the Omron and panasonic relays. And then you ask what I will be using the relays for? Actually, I hesitate to say it because in strictly technical terms it should not be audible in this place (very low impedances around & ultra-low noise), however, my intuition is that it just may be so I'm considering listening to the intuition here ...
@Bonsai: I just briefly visited you hifisonix webpage and noticed that you had a post about using solid state relays for loudspeaker switching (the article is not there, though, as far as I can see?). Have you any experience with using e.g. very low RDSon Mosfets (RDSon 10 mohms) for signal level switching?
Greetings,
Jesper
Thanks for your input - I'll look into the Omron and panasonic relays. And then you ask what I will be using the relays for? Actually, I hesitate to say it because in strictly technical terms it should not be audible in this place (very low impedances around & ultra-low noise), however, my intuition is that it just may be so I'm considering listening to the intuition here ...
@Bonsai: I just briefly visited you hifisonix webpage and noticed that you had a post about using solid state relays for loudspeaker switching (the article is not there, though, as far as I can see?). Have you any experience with using e.g. very low RDSon Mosfets (RDSon 10 mohms) for signal level switching?
Greetings,
Jesper
Remember: the minimum switching voltage current is specified with the the following boundary conditions:
After the relay has switched max worst case load
The test equipment measurement limits
Within the limits of thermo-electric effects (test gear and relay)
A small signal relay not exposed to worst case switching loads will quite happily switch lower level signals and currents and easily bests any switch you care to nsme - including a Shalcross
After the relay has switched max worst case load
The test equipment measurement limits
Within the limits of thermo-electric effects (test gear and relay)
A small signal relay not exposed to worst case switching loads will quite happily switch lower level signals and currents and easily bests any switch you care to nsme - including a Shalcross
Actually where you are using them is quite important in selecting the right relay.
Around here a local sound company used to put in a relay on school auditorium sound systems. It was used to switch a pro line level signal between a small rack mounted microphone mixer and a much larger mixing console. The idea was that for simple stuff where a few microphones would suffice, no operator was required. When you wanted to get fancy flip a switch and you could mix 30 or more sources.
Of course it didn't work as they chose the wrong relay. Their service technicians had learned to carry spare relays with them to fix those systems. Of course all they were doing is putting in a new relay of the same type so it would also fail in time.
From my experience all I know is there are some crappy *** relays floating around. In my Sony receiver they used a company called NAIS for the relays and 4 of them stopped working. The contacts I guess corroded so bad I had to use sandpaper to get them working again. They weren't completely sealed which probably had something to do with it but it's not like I keep my receiver outside. I would trust that omron company myself.
There has been a listening test in the german audio magazine Klang & Ton 6/93 some years ago...
But I remember the outcome : the best sounding relay was a mercury wetted relay from Clare.
The contact is made with a small drop of mercury which ensures very good contact especially for low signals/currents.
Rest to say that Mercury wetted relays are difficult to get, especially here in Europe due to environmental laws.
But I remember the outcome : the best sounding relay was a mercury wetted relay from Clare.
The contact is made with a small drop of mercury which ensures very good contact especially for low signals/currents.
Rest to say that Mercury wetted relays are difficult to get, especially here in Europe due to environmental laws.
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