See post #13
Try listen silver or gold plated relay with BIG contacts, 10A and more. You'll be surprized...
Recently I've used TE Connectivity IM series. A good range of types, small, low power, gold covered contacts.
I've also used the Omron G6K ones too but something always bugged me in the datasheet:
Using the Relay in a circuit where the Relay will be ON
continuously for long periods (without switching) can lead to
unstable contacts because the heat generated by the coil itself
will affect the insulation, causing a film to develop on the
contact surfaces.
Whether use in an input selector or relay attenuator would be 'long periods', I'm not sure.
I've also used the Omron G6K ones too but something always bugged me in the datasheet:
Using the Relay in a circuit where the Relay will be ON
continuously for long periods (without switching) can lead to
unstable contacts because the heat generated by the coil itself
will affect the insulation, causing a film to develop on the
contact surfaces.
Whether use in an input selector or relay attenuator would be 'long periods', I'm not sure.
Beware of capacitance in low RdsON MOSFET's.
(low RdsON=larger die area=higher capacitance)
They might not be as "off" as you would like them to be.
Went through this a long time ago: most "signal" relays sound unexpectedly bad compared to a good silver switch, but the cheap Panasonic TQ2 are amazingly good. These days there may even be better ones but i no longer have the patience for such tests.
Hi all,
Wow - I'm (positively) surprised at all the feedback you've given me here Thanks!
However, the weekend is coming up now and I probably won't be looking into DIY during the weekend but will look forward to making a decision early next week. My guess also is that you've already provided me with enough info & suggestions to do this so for now no need to reply further ...
Best wishes for your weekend ;-)
Jesper
Wow - I'm (positively) surprised at all the feedback you've given me here
Thanks!However, the weekend is coming up now and I probably won't be looking into DIY during the weekend but will look forward to making a decision early next week. My guess also is that you've already provided me with enough info & suggestions to do this so for now no need to reply further ...
Best wishes for your weekend ;-)
Jesper
General Purpose High current relays often have a minimum current or switching load specification (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1685528.pdf) . After a while of just signal switching the contacts oxidise and need some voltage to punch through. I can believe that it's possible that a poor contact could cause distortion and colour the sound.
I have witnessed old relays failing to switch low level signals properly.
Signal switching relays are designed for the job of switching low voltage, low current signals.
I'd recommend reed relays. I used them in a pre-amplifier I build 30 years ago and they still work.
I have witnessed old relays failing to switch low level signals properly.
Signal switching relays are designed for the job of switching low voltage, low current signals.
I'd recommend reed relays. I used them in a pre-amplifier I build 30 years ago and they still work.
Gentlevoice, the "-1" is appended to the END of the TX... part number to get the small signal version. Digikey has a couple versions.
I definitely agree with the cautions stated -- a relay needs to be chosen based on application. That requires a fairly precise definition of the signals to be switched. I.E., don't state "1 Amp" if you are switching line-level signals. That will limit your choices to largely wrong ones. (I don't see that you ever refined the definition of your needs.)
I definitely agree with the cautions stated -- a relay needs to be chosen based on application. That requires a fairly precise definition of the signals to be switched. I.E., don't state "1 Amp" if you are switching line-level signals. That will limit your choices to largely wrong ones. (I don't see that you ever refined the definition of your needs.)
Hi,
I have three favourites for lowlevel switching, all three are DPDT.
The Panasonic (formerly NAIS, formerly SDS) TXS and SX and the Omron G6K2-Y
The Panasonics feature low levels of thermal emf (0.3µV and 3µV) and low power consumption.
The Omron is nearly half the size of the Panansonics.
It features a similar contact build, so thermal emf should compare.
It´s power consumption is higher at 100mW.
Typically I use singleside stable types -if coil leakage presents no problem- as the driving electronics is simpler.
Especially with the tiny Omrons the coil supply has to be as clean as possible, as any ´dirt´ on the coil supply crosstalks into the signal.
Worst case is if You route a signal trace right under the Omron´s body.
Crosstalk can then reach nearly 1:1!
Rather choose the -Y Type over the normal G6K, as with that model the distances between coil and contacts has been increased, as such crosstalk is a bit lower.
In case of a crosstalk sensitive appliances latched Relais would be advantageous, as their coil currents become very low with these types.
The DPDT contacts allow for paralleling of contacts to increase signal integrity and contact stabilit/reliabilty.
Soundwise the small Omrons switch with a nice low klick, while the larger Panasonics produce a deeper, louder and more metallic sound, rather a ´klonck´ (believe ot or not but some customers judge a complete device after the sound of relais)
When built into a casing the Panansonics also produce a nice klicking ´precision-mechanics´ sound.
I personally like to hear the relais working while others dislike it alltogether.
Soundwise I can´t detect any differences between bifurcated crossbar AG contacts (Omron, AU-alloy, probabely used to prevent sulfidization) and AU-clad contacts (Panasonic, preferred over AU-plated or AU thin-film flashed).
And I honestly doubt that one could detect sonic differences between different contacts that are constructed for lowlevel switching at all, if one can exclude crosstalk and other stray effects.
All major relais manufacurers have app-notes and loads of info on their websites (SDS even published a book). Just get there and read
jauu
Calvin
I have three favourites for lowlevel switching, all three are DPDT.
The Panasonic (formerly NAIS, formerly SDS) TXS and SX and the Omron G6K2-Y
The Panasonics feature low levels of thermal emf (0.3µV and 3µV) and low power consumption.
The Omron is nearly half the size of the Panansonics.
It features a similar contact build, so thermal emf should compare.
It´s power consumption is higher at 100mW.
Typically I use singleside stable types -if coil leakage presents no problem- as the driving electronics is simpler.
Especially with the tiny Omrons the coil supply has to be as clean as possible, as any ´dirt´ on the coil supply crosstalks into the signal.
Worst case is if You route a signal trace right under the Omron´s body.
Crosstalk can then reach nearly 1:1!
Rather choose the -Y Type over the normal G6K, as with that model the distances between coil and contacts has been increased, as such crosstalk is a bit lower.
In case of a crosstalk sensitive appliances latched Relais would be advantageous, as their coil currents become very low with these types.
The DPDT contacts allow for paralleling of contacts to increase signal integrity and contact stabilit/reliabilty.
Soundwise the small Omrons switch with a nice low klick, while the larger Panasonics produce a deeper, louder and more metallic sound, rather a ´klonck´ (believe ot or not but some customers judge a complete device after the sound of relais)
When built into a casing the Panansonics also produce a nice klicking ´precision-mechanics´ sound.
I personally like to hear the relais working while others dislike it alltogether.
Soundwise I can´t detect any differences between bifurcated crossbar AG contacts (Omron, AU-alloy, probabely used to prevent sulfidization) and AU-clad contacts (Panasonic, preferred over AU-plated or AU thin-film flashed).
And I honestly doubt that one could detect sonic differences between different contacts that are constructed for lowlevel switching at all, if one can exclude crosstalk and other stray effects.
All major relais manufacurers have app-notes and loads of info on their websites (SDS even published a book). Just get there and read
jauu
Calvin
Last edited:
Hi All,
Thanks once more for replying and sharing your insights and experiences with relays ...
@Calvin: Very good information you provide here. The crosstalk issue is relevant to my application as there will potentially also be low-level digital noise involved/close by. Thanks again Calvin ;-)
And to all of you who have replied to the thread - I think I now know what I need to know to progress so you need not further reply - but, of course feel free to keep the thread going should you so desire.
Cheers,
Jesper
Thanks once more for replying and sharing your insights and experiences with relays ...
@Calvin: Very good information you provide here. The crosstalk issue is relevant to my application as there will potentially also be low-level digital noise involved/close by. Thanks again Calvin ;-)
And to all of you who have replied to the thread - I think I now know what I need to know to progress so you need not further reply - but, of course feel free to keep the thread going should you so desire.
Cheers,
Jesper
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