Depends what driver we're talking about really. Generic boxes can be useful, but there's a limit IMNSHO.
For e.g., take the AN Super12. I'm saying nothing against the driver (although the specs are spectacularly far from the claims, like many FR drivers are), but if you want a vented box, then you're going to need something very big if you want anything approaching optimal. For e.g., a couple of basic T/S alignments yeild cabinet volumes of ~47ft^3 and 40.5ft^3 respectively. Don't like T/S? OK, a trad. bass reflex alignment tuned to 30Hz will require a mere 28ft^3. These are all per driver BTW.
Ra7 -suggestion: if you're thinking about the JLH amp, or one of Nelson's, why not combine the two & use the JLH variation Nelson did a few years back? Best of both worlds. The folded Voigt you have there looks good; might be a little ragged, but they're a reasonable way to get some gain on the bottom end out of these units, providing Vp is sufficient. From the looks of it, I'd say you'll be good down to the high 50s, with a bit of useable output below that, albeit considerably down?
For e.g., take the AN Super12. I'm saying nothing against the driver (although the specs are spectacularly far from the claims, like many FR drivers are), but if you want a vented box, then you're going to need something very big if you want anything approaching optimal. For e.g., a couple of basic T/S alignments yeild cabinet volumes of ~47ft^3 and 40.5ft^3 respectively. Don't like T/S? OK, a trad. bass reflex alignment tuned to 30Hz will require a mere 28ft^3. These are all per driver BTW.
Ra7 -suggestion: if you're thinking about the JLH amp, or one of Nelson's, why not combine the two & use the JLH variation Nelson did a few years back? Best of both worlds. The folded Voigt you have there looks good; might be a little ragged, but they're a reasonable way to get some gain on the bottom end out of these units, providing Vp is sufficient. From the looks of it, I'd say you'll be good down to the high 50s, with a bit of useable output below that, albeit considerably down?
Hi Scott, please pardon my extreme ignorance but may I ask how, just generally, one makes a bass reflex without T/S params? I know such boxes exist (e.g., huge boxes with empty driver-size holes, no tube, just the hole). I'm just curious by what parameters one would size the box. Probably what I'm assuming to be T/S params actually pre-date what are properly called T/S?
Scottmoose,
I have already built these cabinets and they are not bad at all. The imaging and midrange are second to none. I don't mind the slightly soft treble as well. Ofcourse, being a Led Zep fan I wouldn't mind a bigger bottom!
I don't have anything to measure the speaker response yet but I can tell its light below about 200 Hz. What does come through though, is fast, clean, tight and tuneful. This tells me that the slope is gentle.
I did an experiment with a Klipsch subwoofer I have from their promedia computer system. I simply hooked up the thing into the headphone out of the cd player, very crude I know, but I wanted to see what happens. Immediately there was more body to the sound. Even, female and male vocals had weight which was previously missing. Of course, the bass lines were ruined, the ANs exposing the hopelessly slow sub.
Basically, I'm happy with the result but I am looking for more.
As for the amp, I've spent so much time drawing diagrams and looking for parts for the JLH that I simply don't want to look at another design right now. I've read all of Nelson Pass' articles and I will definitely give one of them a shot in the future.
Human.bin,
The most fun I've had so far in building diy audio is when smoke came out of a transformer which I had wired the other way around... ie. I wired the mains to the secondary. I tripped the home circuit too...
Yes, I am new, but I'm hoping that someone else can learn something new from what I have to share. You should always share your opinion.
With regard to the ANs, I hope you gave them enough time. When I got them into the cabinet, they sound harsh for the first couple of months, but now they have mellowed quite a bit.
I have already built these cabinets and they are not bad at all. The imaging and midrange are second to none. I don't mind the slightly soft treble as well. Ofcourse, being a Led Zep fan I wouldn't mind a bigger bottom!
I don't have anything to measure the speaker response yet but I can tell its light below about 200 Hz. What does come through though, is fast, clean, tight and tuneful. This tells me that the slope is gentle.
I did an experiment with a Klipsch subwoofer I have from their promedia computer system. I simply hooked up the thing into the headphone out of the cd player, very crude I know, but I wanted to see what happens. Immediately there was more body to the sound. Even, female and male vocals had weight which was previously missing. Of course, the bass lines were ruined, the ANs exposing the hopelessly slow sub.
Basically, I'm happy with the result but I am looking for more.
As for the amp, I've spent so much time drawing diagrams and looking for parts for the JLH that I simply don't want to look at another design right now. I've read all of Nelson Pass' articles and I will definitely give one of them a shot in the future.
Human.bin,
The most fun I've had so far in building diy audio is when smoke came out of a transformer which I had wired the other way around... ie. I wired the mains to the secondary. I tripped the home circuit too...
Yes, I am new, but I'm hoping that someone else can learn something new from what I have to share. You should always share your opinion.
With regard to the ANs, I hope you gave them enough time. When I got them into the cabinet, they sound harsh for the first couple of months, but now they have mellowed quite a bit.
Do you guys have any suggestions for increasing the output in the nether regions without building another cabinet?
What about baffle step correction?
I tried several filters/correction networks after looking at the full-range driver article by Nelson Pass. But each time the fun was gone from the music even though the response may have been balanced.
What about baffle step correction?
I tried several filters/correction networks after looking at the full-range driver article by Nelson Pass. But each time the fun was gone from the music even though the response may have been balanced.
indeed i gave them time, and i thought what was coming out in OB was wounderful, one baffle crashed on the floor... the bascket is collapsed! too bad...
regarding the sub, search this forum for H-frame bass augmentation, it seems to be one of the better way to augment a BIB, so i think your voight pipe also. but then again, why don't free the driver from the cabinet?
regarding the sub, search this forum for H-frame bass augmentation, it seems to be one of the better way to augment a BIB, so i think your voight pipe also. but then again, why don't free the driver from the cabinet?
i would like to buy just one driver, that being in italy is rather expensive/difficult. anyway i think the alpair 10 will make me happy for sometime. my only concern is the efficency, but then i was always seting the volume up to have some body and eq the mid/highs down a lot with the AN...
talkin of the amplifiers, i red that having a valve feedbacked amp would help a lot with a low qts driver like the AN... how does the t-amp acts about this? i'm also using a t-amp 2nd gen... waiting to understand what to build of course...
talkin of the amplifiers, i red that having a valve feedbacked amp would help a lot with a low qts driver like the AN... how does the t-amp acts about this? i'm also using a t-amp 2nd gen... waiting to understand what to build of course...
I'm still understanding the interaction of amplifiers with full range drivers. I cannot comment on it though because I know very little.
I like the sound of the t-amp, but of course I prefer the sound of my dad's diy tube amp any time.
Best thing to do is to build a cheap tube amp and see for yourself how it would sound.
You could also get the Miniwatt tube amp. It is single-ended, costs $229 and delivers 2.5 W per channel, which ought to be enough for the ANs. Read the reviews on tnt and 6moons.
I like the sound of the t-amp, but of course I prefer the sound of my dad's diy tube amp any time.
Best thing to do is to build a cheap tube amp and see for yourself how it would sound.
You could also get the Miniwatt tube amp. It is single-ended, costs $229 and delivers 2.5 W per channel, which ought to be enough for the ANs. Read the reviews on tnt and 6moons.
Hi human.bin, as one philosophy major to another, here's my newbie take on loudspeakers.
Imagine a bell. It rings at a certain frequency, with a certain amplitude depending on the energy applied. It has a certain quality or tone. It reflects the quality of its design and materials.
A driver is just like a bell -- mechanical energy coupled to air. Except a driver can resonate across a range of frequencies. In order to sound good over a wide bandwidth, it needs an enclosure (or baffle) of a certain size and shape. In the right enclosure, the driver will perform to perfection.
Not sure if that's helpful! Congrats on graduating.
Imagine a bell. It rings at a certain frequency, with a certain amplitude depending on the energy applied. It has a certain quality or tone. It reflects the quality of its design and materials.
A driver is just like a bell -- mechanical energy coupled to air. Except a driver can resonate across a range of frequencies. In order to sound good over a wide bandwidth, it needs an enclosure (or baffle) of a certain size and shape. In the right enclosure, the driver will perform to perfection.
Not sure if that's helpful! Congrats on graduating.
thank you on the congrats, but it will take still a while before i end writing the discussion paper... it's on colors, but i went quite trought a lot of things about sound and waves to be able to write it... that's where diy interest came out, along with a t-amp
building and design seems most belonging to art to me by now. an art whose rays don't light me...
btw the miniwatt valve amplifier is fabuolous! i'm pretty sure i'll take one when i'll be able to buy high eff drivers and retry the OB route, and i think it would be a great match for your AN, just wondering how the switching supply relates the feedback low impedance thing...
and the Amplino too seems a real bargain, being in italy it can be a real match to the alpairs, i think my t-amp won't do with them...
also people a tnt-audio is talking about a new t-amp alike little amp with yamaha chips, the kama-bay, curious to read a comparison with the amplino...
building and design seems most belonging to art to me by now. an art whose rays don't light me...
btw the miniwatt valve amplifier is fabuolous! i'm pretty sure i'll take one when i'll be able to buy high eff drivers and retry the OB route, and i think it would be a great match for your AN, just wondering how the switching supply relates the feedback low impedance thing...
and the Amplino too seems a real bargain, being in italy it can be a real match to the alpairs, i think my t-amp won't do with them...
also people a tnt-audio is talking about a new t-amp alike little amp with yamaha chips, the kama-bay, curious to read a comparison with the amplino...
VictoriaGuy said:
Greets!
Hmm, missed this..........
No, just a subjective comparison.
Well, if I understand you correctly and IIRC the AN2.8II's specs, then you prefer its mid-bass 'bump' Vs the larger one the MLTL has when tube driven due to the latter's BSC and the MLTL's more tonally balanced response Vs the AN2.8II's more rolled off/higher tuned one when SS driven.
GM
Hmm, 'fat' to me means under-damped and the only way that's going to happen if if the driver has a very high Qts and is on an acoustically large radiating surface (baffle + any boundary gain) and/or in a high gain room.
Now if 'fat' were to mean a weak bottom end, i.e. 'forward' mids/HF, then this is true if the radiating surface isn't large enough and/or a low Qts driver is used. IOW, an OB is like any other speaker alignment, it has to complement the driver's effective Qts (Qts + any series resistance) which affects its usable gain (~flat) BW since a baffle can't add any acoustic gain below the driver's mass corner (2*Fs/effective Qts) like a closed/vented alignment. IOW, these are only for the BW below the mass corner while OBs are for above it.
Bottom line, properly implemented, an OB allows the driver to 'be all it can be' in its mass controlled (~flat) BW, so if it doesn't sound 'natural'/'live'/'fast' (well damped), etc. it's not the baffle's fault as it's just there to provide a stable 'work' platform.
GM
Now if 'fat' were to mean a weak bottom end, i.e. 'forward' mids/HF, then this is true if the radiating surface isn't large enough and/or a low Qts driver is used. IOW, an OB is like any other speaker alignment, it has to complement the driver's effective Qts (Qts + any series resistance) which affects its usable gain (~flat) BW since a baffle can't add any acoustic gain below the driver's mass corner (2*Fs/effective Qts) like a closed/vented alignment. IOW, these are only for the BW below the mass corner while OBs are for above it.
Bottom line, properly implemented, an OB allows the driver to 'be all it can be' in its mass controlled (~flat) BW, so if it doesn't sound 'natural'/'live'/'fast' (well damped), etc. it's not the baffle's fault as it's just there to provide a stable 'work' platform.
GM
indeed it's fat like when you added a slight reverber, i think due to back wave coming a little after front wave, and everything that goes with room reflection...
isn't it hi-fi? it's like the sound shines in the room, can add much realism indeed, like a tube amps add harmonics, not the recorded one, but close enough to give body to a violin or so... i don't know if it is always the back wave adding up, but they are also very vivid (at least the AN). by now OB is the only speaker that bring something of a grand piano into my room... drawback, the soundstage is really sensitive to distance from back wall, so they not only are big, but need some space, but then, it's common to many enclosures...
except some: can't wait to tray the alpair in the BVR.
and OB bass seems to be very hard rivaled, cause it interacts gently with the room, without pressurizing it, i also noticed i can play louder without worring the neighbours...
if you are interested in modelling your test baffles, MJK has just made the worksheets available again. i did without, it was a total mess up.
isn't it hi-fi? it's like the sound shines in the room, can add much realism indeed, like a tube amps add harmonics, not the recorded one, but close enough to give body to a violin or so... i don't know if it is always the back wave adding up, but they are also very vivid (at least the AN). by now OB is the only speaker that bring something of a grand piano into my room... drawback, the soundstage is really sensitive to distance from back wall, so they not only are big, but need some space, but then, it's common to many enclosures...
except some: can't wait to tray the alpair in the BVR.
and OB bass seems to be very hard rivaled, cause it interacts gently with the room, without pressurizing it, i also noticed i can play louder without worring the neighbours...
if you are interested in modelling your test baffles, MJK has just made the worksheets available again. i did without, it was a total mess up.
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