Please Mr. Nelson, inform your reference amplifier.
To evaluate something, must refer to something...of course can be alive music...but all amplifier will be ashamed compared to alive music. And i am sure you have this knowledge fixed in your mind since some decades ago.
So, one experienced man alike you, must have one reference system to know...better than.... equal than...worst than....because compare your amps with your own amplifier models will make you conclude wich one is better and worst inside your own amplifier line...Judges consider themselves impeached in judge their own things, maybe because this is not fair.
I am very surprised you never made this comparison, because JLH is considered one reference amplifier.
I will not say that i do not believe..... i cannot say to a respectable man like you....hehe...but i have the rigth to think with freedom.
I will be happy to know what is your reference amplifier, to compare your designs.
regards,
Carlos
To evaluate something, must refer to something...of course can be alive music...but all amplifier will be ashamed compared to alive music. And i am sure you have this knowledge fixed in your mind since some decades ago.
So, one experienced man alike you, must have one reference system to know...better than.... equal than...worst than....because compare your amps with your own amplifier models will make you conclude wich one is better and worst inside your own amplifier line...Judges consider themselves impeached in judge their own things, maybe because this is not fair.
I am very surprised you never made this comparison, because JLH is considered one reference amplifier.
I will not say that i do not believe..... i cannot say to a respectable man like you....hehe...but i have the rigth to think with freedom.
I will be happy to know what is your reference amplifier, to compare your designs.
regards,
Carlos
Some customer support before sale is important to guarantee sales
And after sale support is important to guarantee that you will keept the customer with you, with confidence, to have new future sales.
that ibasic informations i learned with Japanese, when i worked for them, as a Regional Broadcasting Salesman Manager... from Sony Broadcasting.
In that special case, having not pre-sale support, to adapt the new "ready to sale" models with the units already working in some Broadcasting Station...no chance of sales success.
But each case is different. Now a days sittuation is that Mr. Nelson is full of health and alive, and unfortunattelly Mr. Hood not , one alive and the other not...only one side inform we can have, and maybe this is the problem, hard to talk about the ones cannot defend themselves, maybe Mr. Nelson is beeing kind with John Hood memories.
Some weeks before i bougth amplifiers from Hugh Dean, from AKSA, he answered all the foolish question i made with patience.
And still now a days in contact. He is asking if i am satisfied, if i want more bass, more treble, asking about the speakers i am using, telling me the new amplifiers he have in line and the some informs related the others in development...that's support.
I send a mail to Mr. Pass, knowing he is too much busy, i will be waiting his answer related the reference he used to judge his amplifiers quality.
Assemble both amplifiers is not fair... too expensive, as you can have the "man" inform.
regards, MA
Carlos
And after sale support is important to guarantee that you will keept the customer with you, with confidence, to have new future sales.
that ibasic informations i learned with Japanese, when i worked for them, as a Regional Broadcasting Salesman Manager... from Sony Broadcasting.
In that special case, having not pre-sale support, to adapt the new "ready to sale" models with the units already working in some Broadcasting Station...no chance of sales success.
But each case is different. Now a days sittuation is that Mr. Nelson is full of health and alive, and unfortunattelly Mr. Hood not , one alive and the other not...only one side inform we can have, and maybe this is the problem, hard to talk about the ones cannot defend themselves, maybe Mr. Nelson is beeing kind with John Hood memories.
Some weeks before i bougth amplifiers from Hugh Dean, from AKSA, he answered all the foolish question i made with patience.
And still now a days in contact. He is asking if i am satisfied, if i want more bass, more treble, asking about the speakers i am using, telling me the new amplifiers he have in line and the some informs related the others in development...that's support.
I send a mail to Mr. Pass, knowing he is too much busy, i will be waiting his answer related the reference he used to judge his amplifiers quality.
Assemble both amplifiers is not fair... too expensive, as you can have the "man" inform.
regards, MA
Carlos
JH6you, you are rigth, it is not fair, and rigth second time
I have something you do not have, this way i am asking Mr. Nelson to answer my question:
The question is simple:
"What is Mr. Nelson reference system to compare and evaluate their products."
thank you very much, you clear ideas were very good...both of them.
Carlos
I have something you do not have, this way i am asking Mr. Nelson to answer my question:
The question is simple:
"What is Mr. Nelson reference system to compare and evaluate their products."
thank you very much, you clear ideas were very good...both of them.
Carlos
Bit of-topic maybe, but I couldn't resist... A hybrid of the ZEN with Aleph current source and JLH 10Watter input stage...never seen this one before....
? Best or worst of both worlds?
cheers,
Thijs
BTW. I simulated 3 of Pass's ZEN variations, my simulation THD was allways within 10% of the measured THD by Pass...
? Best or worst of both worlds?
cheers,
Thijs
BTW. I simulated 3 of Pass's ZEN variations, my simulation THD was allways within 10% of the measured THD by Pass...
Attachments
renjiish said:
Maybe "political question" (not from you, your question is sincere
).My answer might not sound clear, anyway I try to reply.
I made the JLH sometimes in 1977 and considered it as a very well sounding amp, very clean. In fact I was enthustiastic by its sound. It was my first class A amp ever built (not 1st amp ever built) and I was a technology student that times.
I made the ZEN some 3 years ago (from now) and was not satisfied with the sound at all. From my point of view this can be beginner's luck because it works, but not the sound reference.
There is a small problem - the time gap between my 2 realizations was about 24 years ......
Pavel, you and Epupa, always fast to get the point
I would like to make some direct question:
I had one friend that came from your place, his name as Andrezjewski, but he was opposite related you two, he could never make multiple deductions, i have to say that i create some pre conception idea based on him.
I feel myself very surprised and happy to see that your people is clever as fox...that old friend was not.
I want to say, that you "got it".... directly over the point!
Slowly and in one kind of "repeated way", i am trying to explain what i have perceive those years.
That our perception have no memory....only the feeling related to the perception moment....the feeling is recorded...how happy you where when heard the JLH....... related the second one, beeing this one or another one.....you have some fresh memory of the hearing, and those are erased fast, as some brain economy.... as the differences are not enormous.... also tone unballance can put something that can be perceived as smoke, when you are in a battle field..... you cannot see deeply..... the brain do not consider those differences as something to show us values.
What i mean is that we have some Intelligence Department, that avoid our Feeling department.....because the second one is not completely logical.... something alike "having conscience", and "do not having conscience".
I made tests with my friends several times.... showed them my own design amplifier.... first time was perfect adjusted..... more two days i underbiased it..... and was tested with low power....people love it again......they love me.
Then i put them nervous...i told them the trick i made with all them, making them stupid as clowns!, and i showed them another new amplifier (the same, with good bias....the one aproved first time).
They found a lot of deffects.... was not approved, even was not hi fidelity unit!!!!
So.... the conclusion i made...... feelings...emotions..... change a lot our (humans) sonic qualities evaluations.
And those things are hard to quantify, this way, our Grandfathers runned to IHF rules, the Institute of High Fidelity create something good to avoid those human variations....MEASUREMENTS.
Your lack of time.... cannot make your judgement good, as you already perceived clearly...have to put them together... and better not to know the designers, the country...nothing about the amplifiers...even cannot see them.... because of feelings.
I think, audio engineers must go to Psychology classes.... some elected classes of perception..... 2 classes a weed,1 year long.
they will produce much better audio...i am sure of that.
But do it fast!... as i have the Psychology and thinking in go to Enginneering University...hehehe...big Charlie can be number one!!!!! ahahahahah .... fast man!
If you take Eva, very deep know how, logic woman, she have the capacity of "focus".... that woman with some studies os Psychology....unbeatable she will be, not one will make better than her.
regards,
Carlos
I would like to make some direct question:
I had one friend that came from your place, his name as Andrezjewski, but he was opposite related you two, he could never make multiple deductions, i have to say that i create some pre conception idea based on him.
I feel myself very surprised and happy to see that your people is clever as fox...that old friend was not.
I want to say, that you "got it".... directly over the point!
Slowly and in one kind of "repeated way", i am trying to explain what i have perceive those years.
That our perception have no memory....only the feeling related to the perception moment....the feeling is recorded...how happy you where when heard the JLH....... related the second one, beeing this one or another one.....you have some fresh memory of the hearing, and those are erased fast, as some brain economy.... as the differences are not enormous.... also tone unballance can put something that can be perceived as smoke, when you are in a battle field..... you cannot see deeply..... the brain do not consider those differences as something to show us values.
What i mean is that we have some Intelligence Department, that avoid our Feeling department.....because the second one is not completely logical.... something alike "having conscience", and "do not having conscience".
I made tests with my friends several times.... showed them my own design amplifier.... first time was perfect adjusted..... more two days i underbiased it..... and was tested with low power....people love it again......they love me.
Then i put them nervous...i told them the trick i made with all them, making them stupid as clowns!, and i showed them another new amplifier (the same, with good bias....the one aproved first time).
They found a lot of deffects.... was not approved, even was not hi fidelity unit!!!!
So.... the conclusion i made...... feelings...emotions..... change a lot our (humans) sonic qualities evaluations.
And those things are hard to quantify, this way, our Grandfathers runned to IHF rules, the Institute of High Fidelity create something good to avoid those human variations....MEASUREMENTS.
Your lack of time.... cannot make your judgement good, as you already perceived clearly...have to put them together... and better not to know the designers, the country...nothing about the amplifiers...even cannot see them.... because of feelings.
I think, audio engineers must go to Psychology classes.... some elected classes of perception..... 2 classes a weed,1 year long.
they will produce much better audio...i am sure of that.
But do it fast!... as i have the Psychology and thinking in go to Enginneering University...hehehe...big Charlie can be number one!!!!! ahahahahah .... fast man!
If you take Eva, very deep know how, logic woman, she have the capacity of "focus".... that woman with some studies os Psychology....unbeatable she will be, not one will make better than her.
regards,
Carlos
Hey Carlos,
I follow what you mean, and I believe your brain can do some complicated error correction/compensation when listening to your amps and speakers.
I have made a observation when walking around my neighbourhood. There is a fence made of wooden palings about 75mm wide and with a gap of 6-8mm between each paling. If I am standing still I cannot see through the fence but if I walk at exactly the right speed my brain makes this fence disappear. The images through the slits are pieced together to make a complete picture.
If your eyes and brain can do that what can your ears and brain do?
I follow what you mean, and I believe your brain can do some complicated error correction/compensation when listening to your amps and speakers.
I have made a observation when walking around my neighbourhood. There is a fence made of wooden palings about 75mm wide and with a gap of 6-8mm between each paling. If I am standing still I cannot see through the fence but if I walk at exactly the right speed my brain makes this fence disappear. The images through the slits are pieced together to make a complete picture.
If your eyes and brain can do that what can your ears and brain do?
Gregg and the fence...GREAT!!!, please guys,...read!
This is a wonderfull example of perception....brain working, and we do not know too much about our brain.
Perception is rich related to hearing.... a mother can perceive her child crying between many others children crying same time.... we are not scopes people...please, take this into your account...lets shake the brain a little and descend from the highest skies and put our foot over the ground of the reality.
Do not matter if you love Mathematics, if you have the highest scores in the University, that you are the big boss, full of money and famous.... if you are a designer, knowing not about human perception...your amplifiers will be terrible!....awfull!...if good....only lucky you are.
Need to understand what happen to the main target of your work...the man.... years!
I am going and going....lets see those hi level intelectual, but blocked brains related others sciences.... i am working hard..someday they will listen me..... this day, we gonna start to have better amplifiers.
Thank you gregg, example optimum... if you are in a car, and concrete barriers alike fences...you turn deaf for some time...there are many effects...hi frequency is perceived as noise.... play it alone...without bass and mids.... see that!!!!
regards,
Carlos
This is a wonderfull example of perception....brain working, and we do not know too much about our brain.
Perception is rich related to hearing.... a mother can perceive her child crying between many others children crying same time.... we are not scopes people...please, take this into your account...lets shake the brain a little and descend from the highest skies and put our foot over the ground of the reality.
Do not matter if you love Mathematics, if you have the highest scores in the University, that you are the big boss, full of money and famous.... if you are a designer, knowing not about human perception...your amplifiers will be terrible!....awfull!...if good....only lucky you are.
Need to understand what happen to the main target of your work...the man.... years!
I am going and going....lets see those hi level intelectual, but blocked brains related others sciences.... i am working hard..someday they will listen me..... this day, we gonna start to have better amplifiers.
Thank you gregg, example optimum... if you are in a car, and concrete barriers alike fences...you turn deaf for some time...there are many effects...hi frequency is perceived as noise.... play it alone...without bass and mids.... see that!!!!
regards,
Carlos
Epupa and Pavel, i always think about you two as one
I do not know why..... maybe you gonne together in some threads...maybe because your place is alike the same (in my mind)...both distant from me.... the direct way of speak that call my attention.
I was born in Rio de Janeiro Epupa, there, we had French Invasion, they had been with us many years long.... they mixed with our native people....the invader turned into a "cooperator", and we assimilate their culture.
In my country we never say..." Will not rent the appartment you"
We say, " My dear client, we had (we) some terrible troubles, some damn bureaucratic problems, i personally had worked hard to give to that problem a good solution, a good end...unfortunattelly, the obstacles were stronger than my will, and my capacities to turn around the problem, i am terrible sad to say that, i am feeling fear (take a look, already decide) that , probably (already decided) we will not could rent you that (other maybe) appartment....some signature problems and some loosen references to evaluate your economic hystory (you not a good man to paid your obligations)"
Direct words to me sometimes put me afraid.... cultural differences
And you two are direct in words and strong with ideas and defend your ideas as a "Panzer war tank" passing over enemies, as i told you before...no real problem...just culture, those differences in speach methods.
If i am not wrong....i saw some correction error system.... well...this is "strange marketing method"... recognize that are errors created and go to fix them, or try to fix.... this way, i jump out immediattelly....to buy one idea, the one must convince me his amplifier is the best diamond ever found in this world....if i have suspections not the best..... i will run out... some friend put me this "ligth" on my mind...he is write.
The modern circuit designs, are full of those things.... this to avoid that, and those to avoid the first ones problems caused... and now one error correction, because, despite of the big efforts made.... error persists.... error is there....hehehe, i will turn myself into a soap in already soaped hads.... "flupt", and there's you finding the soap.... correcting the mistake with the white bu- appearing to skies.
See the "old marketing" technics..... the Willianson never told nothing about odds harmonics.... " A magnificent voyage to the dream world..only with Williamson"
My personal problem...those special, up to date, modern chips, op amps, fets, Mos fets IBJT, those modern components are not easy to find my place (we are third world, and i am in my country third world piece...two times third world here!)
Also i am resistent to jump to those modern devices... as i could see that we are loosing to tubes, since the transistor appeared.... to audio amplifiers only, we are loosing..... 40 to 50 years had passed and we already trying to make the "tube sound amplifier".... this way, not believing in transistors as good to audio, let i say in a more french way.... the transistors already not reached its maximum, we must be patient.
You can say...Go to hell Carlos!.... why don't you go to sit over a tube........ shop and choice some amplifier! ehehehe...hot isnt'it?
Because no tube shop, and no more electronic tubes here!...this way i cannot sit over a ....... shop chair and discuss price.
People are putting transistors to avoid the "partner" saturation... having some emitter voltage developed going to base, and making some conduction to ground....heheh... distorter.... what a hell!!!, this must be made alike some fast agc, measuring output and returning to input to avoid possibility of saturation... consider the possibility, wait for the saturation, and control that saturation, over drive or everything you thing or say...it is completely crazy!.... cannot left more than the maximum voltage capacity enter the amplifier....not to make the mass and run alike fire soldier to extinguish the fire after it burns all the things!
Well, have some matter to hold the cannon to big Charlie....hehe...me good...me indian....no no no..... panzer is too heavy Epupa.....hehe...Pavel, go slowly brother.
regards,
Carlos
I do not know why..... maybe you gonne together in some threads...maybe because your place is alike the same (in my mind)...both distant from me.... the direct way of speak that call my attention.
I was born in Rio de Janeiro Epupa, there, we had French Invasion, they had been with us many years long.... they mixed with our native people....the invader turned into a "cooperator", and we assimilate their culture.
In my country we never say..." Will not rent the appartment you"
We say, " My dear client, we had (we) some terrible troubles, some damn bureaucratic problems, i personally had worked hard to give to that problem a good solution, a good end...unfortunattelly, the obstacles were stronger than my will, and my capacities to turn around the problem, i am terrible sad to say that, i am feeling fear (take a look, already decide) that , probably (already decided) we will not could rent you that (other maybe) appartment....some signature problems and some loosen references to evaluate your economic hystory (you not a good man to paid your obligations)"
Direct words to me sometimes put me afraid.... cultural differences
And you two are direct in words and strong with ideas and defend your ideas as a "Panzer war tank" passing over enemies, as i told you before...no real problem...just culture, those differences in speach methods.
If i am not wrong....i saw some correction error system.... well...this is "strange marketing method"... recognize that are errors created and go to fix them, or try to fix.... this way, i jump out immediattelly....to buy one idea, the one must convince me his amplifier is the best diamond ever found in this world....if i have suspections not the best..... i will run out... some friend put me this "ligth" on my mind...he is write.
The modern circuit designs, are full of those things.... this to avoid that, and those to avoid the first ones problems caused... and now one error correction, because, despite of the big efforts made.... error persists.... error is there....hehehe, i will turn myself into a soap in already soaped hads.... "flupt", and there's you finding the soap.... correcting the mistake with the white bu- appearing to skies.
See the "old marketing" technics..... the Willianson never told nothing about odds harmonics.... " A magnificent voyage to the dream world..only with Williamson"
My personal problem...those special, up to date, modern chips, op amps, fets, Mos fets IBJT, those modern components are not easy to find my place (we are third world, and i am in my country third world piece...two times third world here!)
Also i am resistent to jump to those modern devices... as i could see that we are loosing to tubes, since the transistor appeared.... to audio amplifiers only, we are loosing..... 40 to 50 years had passed and we already trying to make the "tube sound amplifier".... this way, not believing in transistors as good to audio, let i say in a more french way.... the transistors already not reached its maximum, we must be patient.
You can say...Go to hell Carlos!.... why don't you go to sit over a tube........ shop and choice some amplifier! ehehehe...hot isnt'it?
Because no tube shop, and no more electronic tubes here!...this way i cannot sit over a ....... shop chair and discuss price.
People are putting transistors to avoid the "partner" saturation... having some emitter voltage developed going to base, and making some conduction to ground....heheh... distorter.... what a hell!!!, this must be made alike some fast agc, measuring output and returning to input to avoid possibility of saturation... consider the possibility, wait for the saturation, and control that saturation, over drive or everything you thing or say...it is completely crazy!.... cannot left more than the maximum voltage capacity enter the amplifier....not to make the mass and run alike fire soldier to extinguish the fire after it burns all the things!
Well, have some matter to hold the cannon to big Charlie....hehe...me good...me indian....no no no..... panzer is too heavy Epupa.....hehe...Pavel, go slowly brother.
regards,
Carlos
Carlos, it will be boredom, when all people will have one type of DIY amp , independent which type this will be. But for me is boredom to prefer type, which is more than 35 years old, only for this reason, that " I don't know something better " and twony years ago I got " postcoital satisfaction " when I heard this at the first time . Try some new, maybe you get this satifaction again .
, independent which type this will be. But for me is boredom to prefer type, which is more than 35 years old, only for this reason, that " I don't know something better " and twony years ago I got " postcoital satisfaction " when I heard this at the first time . Try some new, maybe you get this satifaction again .- Status
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