Can subjective be objective for an individual??
Percieving an audible difference becuase one expects to hear
one seems to me strongly related to placebo effects in medicine,
and it is often said that a placebo effect is also an effect.
Interestingly, I just read about a study of using placebo for
pain relief. The placebo methods used were ultrasound and
injections. The results were compared to real treatment using
very strong pain killers (opoides) and PET analysis of the brain
showed that both placebo and real treatment affected the
same regions of the brain.
This makes one wonder, could similar things happen also for
"audio placebo"?
Maybe we should do non-blind listening tests and do PET
scans of the listeners brains?
Percieving an audible difference becuase one expects to hear
one seems to me strongly related to placebo effects in medicine,
and it is often said that a placebo effect is also an effect.
Interestingly, I just read about a study of using placebo for
pain relief. The placebo methods used were ultrasound and
injections. The results were compared to real treatment using
very strong pain killers (opoides) and PET analysis of the brain
showed that both placebo and real treatment affected the
same regions of the brain.
This makes one wonder, could similar things happen also for
"audio placebo"?
Maybe we should do non-blind listening tests and do PET
scans of the listeners brains?
The biggest prblem IMO with all the debates about the audibilty of various exotica is that it obscures useful consideration of the real aubible differences. In some circles more time is spent debating pointy feet that is spent on the loudspeakers they are attached to or the room they sit in.
Past (and continuing) abuses by advertising copy with regard to power ratings and THD have led many to reject them as unimportant. What is really needed is appropriate measurement useful interpretation. A single datum for each is inadequate.
Personally, I reject the dichotomy between golden-eared subjectivism and pure objective specmanship. I suspect the usefulness any assertion that based on just one. Measure AND listen. And find ways to relate one to the other.
Past (and continuing) abuses by advertising copy with regard to power ratings and THD have led many to reject them as unimportant. What is really needed is appropriate measurement useful interpretation. A single datum for each is inadequate.
Personally, I reject the dichotomy between golden-eared subjectivism and pure objective specmanship. I suspect the usefulness any assertion that based on just one. Measure AND listen. And find ways to relate one to the other.
Re: Can subjective be objective for an individual??
You mean something like this:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/1956
-Bruce
Christer said:Percieving an audible difference becuase one expects to hear
one seems to me strongly related to placebo effects in medicine,
and it is often said that a placebo effect is also an effect.
Interestingly, I just read about a study of using placebo for
pain relief. The placebo methods used were ultrasound and
injections. The results were compared to real treatment using
very strong pain killers (opoides) and PET analysis of the brain
showed that both placebo and real treatment affected the
same regions of the brain.
This makes one wonder, could similar things happen also for
"audio placebo"?
Maybe we should do non-blind listening tests and do PET
scans of the listeners brains?
You mean something like this:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/4/1956
-Bruce
Re: Re: Can subjective be objective for an individual??
I only had a very brief look at the document you linked to, but
I got the impression it was not quite the same type of study
or phenomenon. I should add however, that I know very little
about the study I referred to. I just read a newspaper account
of what had been reported at the annual swedish physicians
meeting. I don't even know if the study was done in Sweden
or elsewhere. I suppose it would be possible to find something
about it by searching the internet.
FLZapped said:
I only had a very brief look at the document you linked to, but
I got the impression it was not quite the same type of study
or phenomenon. I should add however, that I know very little
about the study I referred to. I just read a newspaper account
of what had been reported at the annual swedish physicians
meeting. I don't even know if the study was done in Sweden
or elsewhere. I suppose it would be possible to find something
about it by searching the internet.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Can subjective be objective for an individual??
Do you mean you found something more substantial about the
results I referred to? Sounds interesting. Maybe I should do
a search for it then. I haven't bothered since the summary I
read seemed to give the essence of the results.
FLZapped said:
Do you mean you found something more substantial about the
results I referred to? Sounds interesting. Maybe I should do
a search for it then. I haven't bothered since the summary I
read seemed to give the essence of the results.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can subjective be objective for an individual??
True, since I read it in an ordinary newspaper I should be
more cautious about trusting what was reported. Considering
how wrong newspapers often are on things I know about,
there is no reason they should be any better in other cases.
FLZapped said:
True, since I read it in an ordinary newspaper I should be
more cautious about trusting what was reported. Considering
how wrong newspapers often are on things I know about,
there is no reason they should be any better in other cases.
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