Hi Daniel, it's pure conjecture on my part but I think there should be no external connections at the point that feeds the EQ circuit as, in my opinion right or wrong, it could have an effect on how the EQ circuit works. I like to think the Cathode Follower should be just for feeding the external cables and nothing else. With regard to V3, some have tried a 12AT7 here and prefer it and it seems that even though it is being used as a less than unity gain cathode follower, choice of tube does have an effect. I am most certain you will notice quite an improvement over the stock circuit.
Hi folks...
I received my Svetlana tubes yesterday and inserted them in the Yaqin. They are awesome! I plan on doing Les's upgrade, but I can't picture in my mind that it gets better than this.
I've heard you folks that have already done the conversion extoll its virtue's, but just to satisfy my curiosity, would any of you mind being more specific as to what changed compared to the stock unit that excited you?
With the Svetlana tube upgrade, this Yaqin puts my previous phono stage to shame. Since I have no other reference point than what I have now, I can't imagine how it can be better, but I believe you folks and Les that it does indeed get better.
Anyone want to take a stab at this? It would be greatly appreciated.
I received my Svetlana tubes yesterday and inserted them in the Yaqin. They are awesome! I plan on doing Les's upgrade, but I can't picture in my mind that it gets better than this.
I've heard you folks that have already done the conversion extoll its virtue's, but just to satisfy my curiosity, would any of you mind being more specific as to what changed compared to the stock unit that excited you?
With the Svetlana tube upgrade, this Yaqin puts my previous phono stage to shame. Since I have no other reference point than what I have now, I can't imagine how it can be better, but I believe you folks and Les that it does indeed get better.
Anyone want to take a stab at this? It would be greatly appreciated.
You disbeliever Steven - If you are happy with the sound now then great, stay with it.However you may never know what you missed Ha Ha.
Here is another report from a person who is very critical of his set-up and tried other tube phono amps but could never get the sound he wanted until he converted his MS22-B.
"Thanks Les, The Les Box conversion imho brings the MS22B to the best sonic performance possible at any price point -- I was listening to it again last night - it really is stunning - playing an old Kate Bush record one of the best recordings I have ever heard... ( the musics not that bad either) "
Not really trying to persuade you Steven
Les
Are you laughing at me? Well, you should cause I deserve it.
Anyway, I've ordered the parts and I will know what all the folks here know. I'm both nervous and excited to do this.
Actually, while I think stock sounds much better than what I had, I can still hear room for improvement.
Hmmm... " the best sonic performance possible at any price point"
That means a cartridge upgrade is next. I'm thinking of the Denon DL110. My Audio Technica AT120E is pretty sweet, but the upper midrange is a little dry.
I did notice the the Svetlana tubes really bring out the midrange (very nice!). The highs seem a little rolled off, but just barely.
Anyway, I've ordered the parts and I will know what all the folks here know. I'm both nervous and excited to do this.
Actually, while I think stock sounds much better than what I had, I can still hear room for improvement.
Hmmm... " the best sonic performance possible at any price point"
That means a cartridge upgrade is next. I'm thinking of the Denon DL110. My Audio Technica AT120E is pretty sweet, but the upper midrange is a little dry.
I did notice the the Svetlana tubes really bring out the midrange (very nice!). The highs seem a little rolled off, but just barely.
Pretty certain all the highs will come back after the conversion. Don't forget, if you get stuck send just the board to me as it will be much cheaper than sending the whole unit. Next up on my kitchen table is a Fender Guitar amp that needs replacement of tube holders, not a nice task but hey, going off topic! More talk about Yaqin on the Facebook group if you are not already there, not sure this link will work
https://www.facebook.com/groups/235849143332/
Les
https://www.facebook.com/groups/235849143332/
Les
Les,
What would you recommend for drilling holes in the PCB board.
I was looking over the shipping charges and I am somewhat confused over the VAT charges. I read that if you sent something to the UK for repair, there is no VAT charges as long as there is a document for warranty, which doesn't apply to this situation. How does this all work?
Steve
What would you recommend for drilling holes in the PCB board.
I was looking over the shipping charges and I am somewhat confused over the VAT charges. I read that if you sent something to the UK for repair, there is no VAT charges as long as there is a document for warranty, which doesn't apply to this situation. How does this all work?
Steve
Hi Steve, I use a pcb drill bit of 0.8mm for making the holes. You should not have to pay VAT as this has already been paid on the unit when first purchased, at least that is the way I see it. If you want to send it Steve just put 'For Repair' on the customs label with a value of $15. If they x-ray the package they will see a bare bones circuit of a non working item which obviously does not function as intended.
Les
Les
Do you use a drill press or do it handheld with something like a Dremel? Is it better to use a high speed drill or doesn't it matter? I'm a little unsure here because of what I read. It seems that, if not done correctly, a person can break bits, (a lot of bits), or destroy the tracing on the opposite side of the board. (lift it away).
I have the parts now, but I need to get a solder sucker and a few other tools before I begin. I will order the PCB drill bits too. What size bit did you use for the white double wires on page 29 of your instructions?
Just curious...
I noticed that the (power supply?)capacitors on page 29 (burgundy and gold) are different than the ones elsewhere in the instructions (black). Is that something you did or is it just the difference between models?
I was reading your posts on facebook and you mentioned someone using Mundorf caps. I assume they replaced the 3 microfarad caps that you sent me. You said the result was a brighter sound. Is this something you might recommend or was it a little too much. I realize that it is a personal choice dependent on a persons system and tastes. What is your opinion on this? This is just for future reference... The reason I ask is because I use Mundorf in my speaker crossover because it produced a clearer and more harmonically rich sound than the other caps I used. The caps that came with my ribbon tweeters sounded dull in comparison and the others I tried sounded clearer than the stock caps, but harmonically flat compared to the Mundorf.
In any case, your thoughts would be appreciated,
Steve
wow Steven, so many questions I used a standard hand held battery drill, just don't apply too much pressure, let the drill do all the work. I drill from the track side to ensure the hole will be central. I have never had track lift, this is more commonly caused by too much heat when soldering. A very small piece of rolled up very fine glass paper should be sufficient to remove the Green solder resist where required. The other holes I cannot remember, probably 2mm, best found to match the wire that you use cross sectional area. The main power electrolytics are not changed and they differ due to different units i.e. what Yaqin fitted at the time. The output capacitors can be changed if you think it worthwhile, I found no increase in performance and preferred the Monacor which probably have similar characteristics as your Mundorf capacitors as they were made for the same task.
The problem with PIO capacitors is their size. I obviously cannot fit them for Health and safety reasons as the base plates would have to be left off. So I fit the much smaller Monacor capacitors so that I can return the units fully assembled. My own units have Monacors and I am quite happy, very much indeed, with the sound they give. I think you will find the same once you have converted the unit away from its original dire life-less sound. Hopefully you will hear such clarity that you also will be fully satisfied with the sound the unit gives with the Monacors or any of the high quality audio grade polypropylene capacitors. The beauty of DIY is that you can try various component combinations if you think it will further improve sound but so far, I have not had anyone say they have added this or done that to make the conversion circuit sound better. You have to put everything into proper context. After spending 130GBP on a unit that sounds terrible, just adding 35GBP of components in a different arrangement makes the original purchase much more worthy due to increase in performance. The unit would otherwise have gone into the rubbish and you would have lost 130GBP and maybe more money by having to buy a more expensive phono amp.
I used a standard hand held battery drill, just don't apply too much pressure, let the drill do all the work. I drill from the track side to ensure the hole will be central. I have never had track lift, this is more commonly caused by too much heat when soldering. A very small piece of rolled up very fine glass paper should be sufficient to remove the Green solder resist where required. The other holes I cannot remember, probably 2mm, best found to match the wire that you use cross sectional area. The main power electrolytics are not changed and they differ due to different units i.e. what Yaqin fitted at the time. The output capacitors can be changed if you think it worthwhile, I found no increase in performance and preferred the Monacor which probably have similar characteristics as your Mundorf capacitors as they were made for the same task. The problem with PIO capacitors is their size. I obviously cannot fit them for Health and safety reasons as the base plates would have to be left off. So I fit the much smaller Monacor capacitors so that I can return the units fully assembled. My own units have Monacors and I am quite happy, very much indeed, with the sound they give. I think you will find the same once you have converted the unit away from its original dire life-less sound. Hopefully you will hear such clarity that you also will be fully satisfied with the sound the unit gives with the Monacors or any of the high quality audio grade polypropylene capacitors. The beauty of DIY is that you can try various component combinations if you think it will further improve sound but so far, I have not had anyone say they have added this or done that to make the conversion circuit sound better. You have to put everything into proper context. After spending 130GBP on a unit that sounds terrible, just adding 35GBP of components in a different arrangement makes the original purchase much more worthy due to increase in performance. The unit would otherwise have gone into the rubbish and you would have lost 130GBP and maybe more money by having to buy a more expensive phono amp.
OK Steven, just take your time and remember I am only a keyboard away if you have problems, which you shouldn't have. BTW Don't use that awful lead free solder, I have been soldering for nearly 60 years but as hard as I try, the joints I make with lead free are so horrible that I have none of the stuff in the house. Use 60/40 lead tin solder and you will be OK and don't fall for 'the end of the world' brigade who will dislike you for using it. I work in Defense and you will not find a slither of lead free solder in any of our products, reliability being the key factor!
I previously asked if someone would give a detailed description of what changes could be heard after the Yaqin 22B Les conversion, but received no takers. So after doing the conversion myself, I figure it's my duty to answer my own question.
This thread started off asking about a hum from the 22B. I had the newer version which didn't suffer from that problem. I also want to point out that I was coming from an Art phono preamp, which BTW I still think is a darn good preamp for the money. The Yaqin 22B had certain qualities that I also liked. In some ways, I liked the ART, in others I liked the Yaqin. The les conversion of the 22B combines what I liked about both of these and improves on both, adding even more refinement to the sound.
I did a little tube rolling before the conversion and went with Les's recommendation of the Svetlana tubes. With the original tubes (Shuguang) the soundstage was very restricted, especially the width. These tubes suffered from midband/bass bloat and so sounded somewhat muddy. The Mullard reissues sounded similar, but with a little better highs. With Tung-Sol, the soundstage was very open, the highs, very clear, but the images sounded thinner. The Svetlana's were the best of the bunch. They weren't as clear sounding as the Tung-Sols, but they added more to the low/mid ranges to give more substance to the images, however the highs were somewhat restricted as compared to the ART . Keep in mind that these opinions refer to these tubes in the stock 22B.
As for the Les conversion, I did as he suggested and worked slowly, checking my work with my meter as I went along. It took me 3 days to complete. I bugged him with silly questions, but in the end, it helped me, both to teach me new skills and to overcome my fears of doing this project. For that, I am grateful.
Now, onto the the answer of how the 22LB sounds...
At this point, I am only using the Svetlana tubes.
First off, the highs are better than ever. They are not excessive, but rather more detailed and extended. They are very natural sounding with detail and resolution that I had only dreamed about. I was expecting that they would become clearer and hoped for a little more solid imaging, but what I didn't expect was the amount of added detail. This was not subtle, but more on the level of a revelation.
In the midband, the level of resolution continued. I constantly hear things that I didn't even know was in the music after listening to the same music for years. Sometimes this was subtle, but at other times, I had a hard time believing that I didn't hear these things before because they were now very audible. Oddly, I have a few recordings that I don't hear more detail in and I have to surmise that it's just not in the recording. For most of my music, there is something new to hear. With one of my records, the recording engineer stretched the drums out across the soundstage, and while I had always heard these drums before, I now could follow each strike of the drums back and forth across the stage, very cool!
The bass was very tight and rich sounding, but I do have to say that it was a little less than before the conversion. After looking at Les's RIAA curves of the before and after, that makes sense. The stock 22B looked like it had a little emphasis in that range compared to the converted 22B.
Soundstaging was exemplary. It extended beyond my speakers horizontally enough so that it sounded like the sound was magically coming from nowhere. As for the depth, it was similar to my ART, and yet at the same time, I felt that it had no limit. It was very open sounding
The space between images was more defined. A few instruments that seemed close to each other had little space between them, but it was still possible to hear them as separate instruments which again was better than before the conversion.
Images were also more solid. What I mean by this is that they had their own space in the soundstage, like the drums that I mentioned earlier. It was more like they are right there versus they are over there, if you understand the difference.
Dynamics almost never seemed to be compressed and I suspect the few times it was, it was recorded that way.
Well, I think I covered everything.
So, at this point you might think that I think this 22LB is perfect. I don't know, but I do think that its definitely not the weak link.
Yes, I can imagine even better sound, but considering that I am using what is considered a budget cartridge, the results are amazing. Besides, if it was perfect there would be no point in purchasing a better phono cartridge and that would make no sense at all.
Are there better phono stages? Again, I don't know, but I suspect that if there are, most of us can't afford them.
Again, thank you Les Carpenter.
Now can anyone tell me where I can have a badge made for my new Les Box that I can attach to the 22LB?
This thread started off asking about a hum from the 22B. I had the newer version which didn't suffer from that problem. I also want to point out that I was coming from an Art phono preamp, which BTW I still think is a darn good preamp for the money. The Yaqin 22B had certain qualities that I also liked. In some ways, I liked the ART, in others I liked the Yaqin. The les conversion of the 22B combines what I liked about both of these and improves on both, adding even more refinement to the sound.
I did a little tube rolling before the conversion and went with Les's recommendation of the Svetlana tubes. With the original tubes (Shuguang) the soundstage was very restricted, especially the width. These tubes suffered from midband/bass bloat and so sounded somewhat muddy. The Mullard reissues sounded similar, but with a little better highs. With Tung-Sol, the soundstage was very open, the highs, very clear, but the images sounded thinner. The Svetlana's were the best of the bunch. They weren't as clear sounding as the Tung-Sols, but they added more to the low/mid ranges to give more substance to the images, however the highs were somewhat restricted as compared to the ART . Keep in mind that these opinions refer to these tubes in the stock 22B.
As for the Les conversion, I did as he suggested and worked slowly, checking my work with my meter as I went along. It took me 3 days to complete. I bugged him with silly questions, but in the end, it helped me, both to teach me new skills and to overcome my fears of doing this project. For that, I am grateful.
Now, onto the the answer of how the 22LB sounds...
At this point, I am only using the Svetlana tubes.
First off, the highs are better than ever. They are not excessive, but rather more detailed and extended. They are very natural sounding with detail and resolution that I had only dreamed about. I was expecting that they would become clearer and hoped for a little more solid imaging, but what I didn't expect was the amount of added detail. This was not subtle, but more on the level of a revelation.
In the midband, the level of resolution continued. I constantly hear things that I didn't even know was in the music after listening to the same music for years. Sometimes this was subtle, but at other times, I had a hard time believing that I didn't hear these things before because they were now very audible. Oddly, I have a few recordings that I don't hear more detail in and I have to surmise that it's just not in the recording. For most of my music, there is something new to hear. With one of my records, the recording engineer stretched the drums out across the soundstage, and while I had always heard these drums before, I now could follow each strike of the drums back and forth across the stage, very cool!
The bass was very tight and rich sounding, but I do have to say that it was a little less than before the conversion. After looking at Les's RIAA curves of the before and after, that makes sense. The stock 22B looked like it had a little emphasis in that range compared to the converted 22B.
Soundstaging was exemplary. It extended beyond my speakers horizontally enough so that it sounded like the sound was magically coming from nowhere. As for the depth, it was similar to my ART, and yet at the same time, I felt that it had no limit. It was very open sounding
The space between images was more defined. A few instruments that seemed close to each other had little space between them, but it was still possible to hear them as separate instruments which again was better than before the conversion.
Images were also more solid. What I mean by this is that they had their own space in the soundstage, like the drums that I mentioned earlier. It was more like they are right there versus they are over there, if you understand the difference.
Dynamics almost never seemed to be compressed and I suspect the few times it was, it was recorded that way.
Well, I think I covered everything.
So, at this point you might think that I think this 22LB is perfect. I don't know, but I do think that its definitely not the weak link.
Yes, I can imagine even better sound, but considering that I am using what is considered a budget cartridge, the results are amazing. Besides, if it was perfect there would be no point in purchasing a better phono cartridge and that would make no sense at all.
Are there better phono stages? Again, I don't know, but I suspect that if there are, most of us can't afford them.
Again, thank you Les Carpenter.
Now can anyone tell me where I can have a badge made for my new Les Box that I can attach to the 22LB?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another MS22B rebuild by Les (Hi-Q) - apparently Yaqin had fixed the hum on their latest model - but with the extra tube and a host of new components as detailed in Les' comprehensive PDF guide (see above) the difference is literally between Night and Day. I was somewhat underwhelmed with the original unit - now I'm hearing stuff in the mix I didn't know was there and a kind of brittleness most noticeable on vocals is essentially gone - I'm back to enjoying my vinyl. Thanks to Watford's DIY audio genius!
Steven,
Hope that you enjoy your as much as we all have, and thank you again Les.
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You got a chuckle out of me putting me in my place.
I see your point, it was just that I was hoping for a more detailed description.
It's much appreciated!
BTW, after rereading the quotes you posted, I see that some of the things I mentioned have already been mentioned. It's good to see that our experiences concur. What I also find interesting is that coolzero found a good match with the Svetlanas and the mullard reissue albeit not with complete success. I was thinking about trying that myself.
Thanks!
I see your point, it was just that I was hoping for a more detailed description.
It's much appreciated!
BTW, after rereading the quotes you posted, I see that some of the things I mentioned have already been mentioned. It's good to see that our experiences concur. What I also find interesting is that coolzero found a good match with the Svetlanas and the mullard reissue albeit not with complete success. I was thinking about trying that myself.
Thanks!
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Thanks for the very concise write up Steven. You can now understand I think why I was so keen to let the world know about this conversion as it really does make a silk purse from a sows ear. I think when you upgrade to a better cartridge you may also hear much more detail. I settled for a Shure V15 mkIII many years ago and have been most happy with it, then I listened to a Technics cartridge. It was like going back to the original MS22-B so I quickly swapped the decks back. So yes. it could be that with a better cartridge you will get even more detail and if you do, I am most certain the converted MS22 will present it to you.
Happy Listening, Les
so I quickly swapped the decks back. So yes. it could be that with a better cartridge you will get even more detail and if you do, I am most certain the converted MS22 will present it to you.Happy Listening, Les
Les, I wanted to say even more, but I was trying to keep it short. I have a hard time doing that and I never feel like I have the ability to explain things so that others understand what's in my mind. I only hope it gives some insight to others. Honestly, the other reviews were spot on.
I ordered a Denon DL110 which is on it's way. I believe it will be a step up from my AT120E.
It seems that opinions of cartridges are all over the place. Shure cartridges that use the Jico stylus are extremely interesting, from what I read. Oh well, I'm sure that the Denon won't be the end of the road for me.
The one thing I do know is that I haven't played a CD since I got my vinyl rig. I've heard some very good CD playback systems, but it seems that even in cost is no object systems, vinyl is still better.
The odd thing is that when I look at my tube amp, my tube phono pre-amp, and my vinyl playback equipment, I see technology that dates back to before I was born and yet it's still better after all the technological advances over the last 60 years or so. It seems that we have traded sound quality for convenience.
Still, I do believe that some modern equipment is very very good, but not in the price range of an average person compared to a tube setup with similar sonic characteristics at a far lower price point. Eventually, Hi-Res digital audio will replace vinyl (and, when done right, it is really good). Well, that's my two cents.
I ordered a Denon DL110 which is on it's way. I believe it will be a step up from my AT120E.
It seems that opinions of cartridges are all over the place. Shure cartridges that use the Jico stylus are extremely interesting, from what I read. Oh well, I'm sure that the Denon won't be the end of the road for me.
The one thing I do know is that I haven't played a CD since I got my vinyl rig. I've heard some very good CD playback systems, but it seems that even in cost is no object systems, vinyl is still better.
The odd thing is that when I look at my tube amp, my tube phono pre-amp, and my vinyl playback equipment, I see technology that dates back to before I was born and yet it's still better after all the technological advances over the last 60 years or so. It seems that we have traded sound quality for convenience.
Still, I do believe that some modern equipment is very very good, but not in the price range of an average person compared to a tube setup with similar sonic characteristics at a far lower price point. Eventually, Hi-Res digital audio will replace vinyl (and, when done right, it is really good). Well, that's my two cents.
Hi Steven, everything has gone the same route I think. Cassette decks were more convenient than reel to reel decks but at a cost. Believe me the first cassette decks sounded terrible and only gained some credibility when they improved tape and reduced the head gap. Transistors made swift headway into radio as the batteries were much cheaper and lighter though many around at the time will tell you of tinny sounding transistor radios that at first could not compete with the better sound of tube portables but again convenience won. It's amazing now how you can take a picture then download into something like photo-shop straight away and print out a photo. Much more convenient than film even though we have gone for say 15MB pixels whereas with film its infinite pixels. It will take a lot more technology to enable digital cameras to have the 'depth' that conventional film gives. Maybe this was the thinking behind the MS22-B etc., make something attractive that appears to do the job, all in one box and not to worry too much about the sound quality it gives. Will be interesting to hear your comments with the Denon, not had one myself though I did start off in my teens with an Audio Technica. I went for the V15 as at that time the ultimate deck if you were rich was a Garrard 301 with an SME Arm fitted with a V15 Mark III. Most of the radio stations around at the time like the BBC seemed to use V15's or Ortofon Carts. If I read something like "Oh My God!" on here then I will know the Denon works well
Hallo everybody, I have been looking at getting some kind of tube amp for a while now but this thread got me interested to the point of actually ordering one of these Yaqin phono preamps.
Received the "MS-22B" amp the other day, was well packed and arrived in only a few days from Hongkong, but the actual model in the box was a Yaqin MS-23B? The front panel is slightly different and there is an aluminium cover over the tubes for the rest it looks the same as the ms-22b. Does anyone know what the differences are between the two models?
I connected it up and it sounds not bad at all, no hum no noise.
Haven't taken it apart yet to see what it looks like on the inside; thought I better see if it works first!
Steve.
Received the "MS-22B" amp the other day, was well packed and arrived in only a few days from Hongkong, but the actual model in the box was a Yaqin MS-23B? The front panel is slightly different and there is an aluminium cover over the tubes for the rest it looks the same as the ms-22b. Does anyone know what the differences are between the two models?
I connected it up and it sounds not bad at all, no hum no noise.
Haven't taken it apart yet to see what it looks like on the inside; thought I better see if it works first!
Steve.