Not feeling the love.
I've had my 'New' NS1000M's running for a week or so now. Obviously they will take some time to free up after being in storage for a couple of years, but I must say that after following on from some JM Labs Micro Utopia's, I'm not feeling that impressed. Midrange is good, but bass is almost non existant. When boosted (I'm using a Sony TA-5650 VFET amp) and various good CD players), they do sound more natural, and comparible to what went before. When both pots are dialed down and bass up the drivers seem to be acting OK, though I have not removed them or turned them 180 degrees as there is no sound of any rubbing. I don't really fancy spending another £500 for the crossover upgrade, but would be happy to mod the XO in the bass to hopefully improve matters. Any thoughts people?
I've had my 'New' NS1000M's running for a week or so now. Obviously they will take some time to free up after being in storage for a couple of years, but I must say that after following on from some JM Labs Micro Utopia's, I'm not feeling that impressed. Midrange is good, but bass is almost non existant. When boosted (I'm using a Sony TA-5650 VFET amp) and various good CD players), they do sound more natural, and comparible to what went before. When both pots are dialed down and bass up the drivers seem to be acting OK, though I have not removed them or turned them 180 degrees as there is no sound of any rubbing. I don't really fancy spending another £500 for the crossover upgrade, but would be happy to mod the XO in the bass to hopefully improve matters. Any thoughts people?
I would really hesitate to change the crossover design. For your ears, these are new speakers. Perhaps your ears need time to adapt as well as the speakers themselves, after their time "at rest". I have owned several pairs of NS1000M. They are definitely not "boom boxes"...the sound is perhaps characterised as dry, with outstanding mid and high detail. If you have been listening to reflex designs you might have adapted to a fuller (perhaps less realistic) bass than these speakers. I recommend extended listening on tracks with which you are familiar and then see if you are dissatisfied. Of course, the crossover projects are very interesting, but unless you have the measuring gear, you are really out on your own when you go this way, and I doubt if it helps the resale value for these fine speakers.
what I did and resulted in significant improvement to my ears: increase bass using the crossover design of the NS-2000's or added cap to bass. inductors are off spec. ; use cheap Chinese multitester. larger mH inductors unwound to bring them to spec. new caps- janzen. silver coated wire. spray pots deoxit. insure mid horn isn't being pinched by magnet. clear rusting/tarnished connections.
I've looked at the Bass part of the XO for the 1000m and C1 (the cap) is 94UF on the 2000 I've seen it stated as 88UF. Is that your understanding?
Original XO above.
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/up...0096.jpg.758a0da495938d7c0d5e594862f31610.jpg
NS2000 here.
This seems the opposite way around.
Original XO above.
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/up...0096.jpg.758a0da495938d7c0d5e594862f31610.jpg
NS2000 here.
This seems the opposite way around.
It's been so long since I implemented the change, that I don't recall dropping the uf's on the bass cap.; faintly recall adding a cap. except, that insuring that the inductor was within spec made a difference in increasing the bass. spkrs weigh so much(back is not well), I don't dare move them to check. you know, the info. should already be in this thread. I'll look. do as well.
found it:
'These are my further observations: Ensuring that the bass inductor is at 5mH and that the bass caps are at 47uf, BROUGHT OUT THE BASS! The bass can overshadow the highs, though. Cheap poly caps can be used to create the 47uf. The electrolytic variety proved ineffective.
Replacing the 2.7uf tweeter cap and bringing it up to 2.8uf(used a 2.7uf Mundorf evo oil and added a .1uf poly cap) brought it to life. Keeping it at 2.7uf resulted in less brightness. Cheap caps are not advisable here. The use of polycaps here was not effective(metallic sound).
The midrange 3.5uf cap was reading 4.5uf and was replaced with one of the same caps from the row which make- up the 21uf, for a 3.5+uf cap. Polycaps resulted in a metallic sound. The 21uf caps were replaced with one 20uf and a 1uf polycap. Cheap caps, or the original ones, here made no audible difference to me.
The inductors for the midrange and tweeters were replaced with air core types. The original inductor for the bass was kept, but wire added to bring it to spec.
I found that ordering the inductors at a few higher mH's allowed me to fine tune them by unwinding and cutting them.
I added polyswitches to the tweeter and midrange speakers for protection.
To me, sound quality is much improved in that the bass is now present, deep and that the highs are now clear and vivid.
The midrange sound could see improvement. I'll be trying super caps of of pricier variety.'
'These are my further observations: Ensuring that the bass inductor is at 5mH and that the bass caps are at 47uf, BROUGHT OUT THE BASS! The bass can overshadow the highs, though. Cheap poly caps can be used to create the 47uf. The electrolytic variety proved ineffective.
Replacing the 2.7uf tweeter cap and bringing it up to 2.8uf(used a 2.7uf Mundorf evo oil and added a .1uf poly cap) brought it to life. Keeping it at 2.7uf resulted in less brightness. Cheap caps are not advisable here. The use of polycaps here was not effective(metallic sound).
The midrange 3.5uf cap was reading 4.5uf and was replaced with one of the same caps from the row which make- up the 21uf, for a 3.5+uf cap. Polycaps resulted in a metallic sound. The 21uf caps were replaced with one 20uf and a 1uf polycap. Cheap caps, or the original ones, here made no audible difference to me.
The inductors for the midrange and tweeters were replaced with air core types. The original inductor for the bass was kept, but wire added to bring it to spec.
I found that ordering the inductors at a few higher mH's allowed me to fine tune them by unwinding and cutting them.
I added polyswitches to the tweeter and midrange speakers for protection.
To me, sound quality is much improved in that the bass is now present, deep and that the highs are now clear and vivid.
The midrange sound could see improvement. I'll be trying super caps of of pricier variety.'
Here the 98u cap reduces mid bass and attenuates any voice present in the woofer.
By changing it to 47 or replacing with 68 as in the ns2000 you would increase mid bass and as a result a little bit of voice will be present in the woofer.
Both changes in the reduction of the capacitor will give increase in bass.
yep, it's apparent. initially, after recapping crossover, there was little to no bass. now, have to lower it so it doesn't overwhelm. using janzen caps.
added linaeaum tweets as super tweets, as well. but unlike the schematic below, used 2.7uf mundorf cap in series with .3 mH inductor to +, as I couldn't get their volume level to rise.
the terminal jacks were replaced with twist/ plug versions, but they loosened up after several years- have to resolve that when my back improves.
using spikes on the spkr stands, but they don't allow movement. tilting back the spkrs about 1/2-1" improves imaging at a distance of about 10feet.
added linaeaum tweets as super tweets, as well. but unlike the schematic below, used 2.7uf mundorf cap in series with .3 mH inductor to +, as I couldn't get their volume level to rise.
the terminal jacks were replaced with twist/ plug versions, but they loosened up after several years- have to resolve that when my back improves.
using spikes on the spkr stands, but they don't allow movement. tilting back the spkrs about 1/2-1" improves imaging at a distance of about 10feet.
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Hi.
As I may have said my speakers had been unused for two or three years, as happens a period of freeing up does help, so I've left the playing bass rich music with bass turned up and Mid/HF turned down for four or five days. Not loud but just so as to get things moving. This seems to have helped quite a bit, LF are much more free and pronounced, more 'as a whole' with the mid/hf.
Next I hope to tweek the XO using the FR that Troels posted when he did his major XO redesign to such good effect. I'm not presently in the market for that, but would hope to flatten the FR at least a bit and boost the Bass if possible, but without reducing efficiency or dynamics. This is the starting point, which I assume is fairly typical for the breed.
I will be using Jeff Bagby's XO designer SW (unless there are other/better options) to gestimate changes to the FR. Luckily I do have a spare original XO, so will be using this to conduct my trials. I may first do an independant FR sweep using a mobile phone and a sound file. This is I understand far from perfect, but the point is to
refine things bit by bit within a reasonable (very little) cost..
"On Teb, on!".....
As I may have said my speakers had been unused for two or three years, as happens a period of freeing up does help, so I've left the playing bass rich music with bass turned up and Mid/HF turned down for four or five days. Not loud but just so as to get things moving. This seems to have helped quite a bit, LF are much more free and pronounced, more 'as a whole' with the mid/hf.
Next I hope to tweek the XO using the FR that Troels posted when he did his major XO redesign to such good effect. I'm not presently in the market for that, but would hope to flatten the FR at least a bit and boost the Bass if possible, but without reducing efficiency or dynamics. This is the starting point, which I assume is fairly typical for the breed.
I will be using Jeff Bagby's XO designer SW (unless there are other/better options) to gestimate changes to the FR. Luckily I do have a spare original XO, so will be using this to conduct my trials. I may first do an independant FR sweep using a mobile phone and a sound file. This is I understand far from perfect, but the point is to
refine things bit by bit within a reasonable (very little) cost..
"On Teb, on!".....
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You should consider to rotate the inductors so that the axis is not in parallel. This filter will sound BAD!!! Let the inductors point in X Y and Z axis and place two X axis indutors as far away as possible, same for the other axis. You will experience a huge improvement.
that's fascinating! makes one wonder how the crossover is being sonically altered by changing the current parts that the manufacturer put in. in my case, I found the inductors off spec and adjusted them to spec. but, considering how the magnetic field is changing their values based on distance and placement, there's a good possibility that my adjustments actually changed the inductor's readings. No wonder out of the 5 or so ns 1000 crossovers I have, all the inductors read out of spec: the manufacturer more likely than not took into account their changing readings based on distance/ placement.
Thanks for replying, that's what I assumed, but how does that work then when schematic shows a resistor (0.410 Ohm) in series with the bass driver? Not to mention the resistors in series with each of the four inductors for all three drivers.