No interest?
I am suprised at the apparent lack of interest in the concept of an X-Zen. Can this really be or are others too busy with other projects? Or perhaps you are waiting for Nelson to publish his next installment in the Zen series?
I've already offered one schematic but nobody has yet torn it apart (or said anything else for that matter). Perhaps it was just too far off the mark?
Ian.
I am suprised at the apparent lack of interest in the concept of an X-Zen. Can this really be or are others too busy with other projects? Or perhaps you are waiting for Nelson to publish his next installment in the Zen series?
I've already offered one schematic but nobody has yet torn it apart (or said anything else for that matter). Perhaps it was just too far off the mark?
Ian.
X rated son of Zen
I'm very interested. especially in the
X rated son of Zen or X Wife of Zen
I'm afraid that this Son of Zen version will be overshadowed by the plain Zen version which Nelson is cooking up, so I hope this SOZ version gets developed here. Sadly, I am too ignorant to contribute, what are those circles with voltages and wave shapes in them anyway? Hey you guys, pitch in and get this done, with parts spec'ed and everything pedantically spelled out, so I can make one....This is new territory - come on!!!!
I'm very interested. especially in the
X rated son of Zen or X Wife of Zen
I'm afraid that this Son of Zen version will be overshadowed by the plain Zen version which Nelson is cooking up, so I hope this SOZ version gets developed here. Sadly, I am too ignorant to contribute, what are those circles with voltages and wave shapes in them anyway? Hey you guys, pitch in and get this done, with parts spec'ed and everything pedantically spelled out, so I can make one....This is new territory - come on!!!!
Variac et al, I'm a bit busy at the moment but when I can find a few spare minutes I'll have a crack at dreaming up a few schematics. I've recently been distracted by a related thread about output stage topology and the importance (or not) of low output impedance. It is a fascinating subject and if correct, may mean that a number of circuit ideas that I had discounted may actually be viable. I take your point about being overshadowed by Nelson's next Zen installment but so be it.
Stephano, try downloading one of the Spice simulation packages with schematic capture that are referenced in many other threads. Circuitmaker has a pretty good schematic editor even if its simulation capability is a little suspect.
Ian.
Stephano, try downloading one of the Spice simulation packages with schematic capture that are referenced in many other threads. Circuitmaker has a pretty good schematic editor even if its simulation capability is a little suspect.
Ian.
Thanks Ian.
After the exploration with Nelson's patent I rebuild the circuit as it was when I started the thread.
I believe it is the right circuit.
First becouse it sounds wonderful! After that , as i "try" to explain up above , it is really a " feedback arrangiament around a differential pair".
If this amplifier counts 2 stage of amplification then , the diff pair is the input stage . Son of ZEN ( as we all know it ) is the OUTPUT stage.
Feedback presents a signal that is out of fase with the corrisponding input .
When ready I'll try to post the circuit.
This amp deserve ALL OUR attention! SOUNDS GOOD !
"Really no kiddin "
Stefano
After the exploration with Nelson's patent I rebuild the circuit as it was when I started the thread.
I believe it is the right circuit.
First becouse it sounds wonderful! After that , as i "try" to explain up above , it is really a " feedback arrangiament around a differential pair".
If this amplifier counts 2 stage of amplification then , the diff pair is the input stage . Son of ZEN ( as we all know it ) is the OUTPUT stage.
Feedback presents a signal that is out of fase with the corrisponding input .
When ready I'll try to post the circuit.
This amp deserve ALL OUR attention! SOUNDS GOOD !
"Really no kiddin "
Stefano
Ian
it's not that people are not interested in your post I think is more due to the information overload, the fact it's summer, and the fact that probably few really know what you and Nelson are talking about.
More on the same topic we discussed last time since I didn't see the XSOZAlt you posted. It is now even more apparent that I don't get the circuit but we knew that already.
What I see is a perfectly fine SOZ with added local feedback via R25 and R26. Here is a question that will clarify my degree of confusion: what happens if you disconnect and swap the right side of R25 with the left side of R26? Would the distortion be added instead of getting subtracted?
it's not that people are not interested in your post I think is more due to the information overload, the fact it's summer, and the fact that probably few really know what you and Nelson are talking about.
More on the same topic we discussed last time since I didn't see the XSOZAlt you posted. It is now even more apparent that I don't get the circuit but we knew that already.
What I see is a perfectly fine SOZ with added local feedback via R25 and R26. Here is a question that will clarify my degree of confusion: what happens if you disconnect and swap the right side of R25 with the left side of R26? Would the distortion be added instead of getting subtracted?
XSOZAlt
Grataku, I take your point about information overload, it being summer etc. I guess we are all too busy right now.
Regarding your question about transposing the ends of R25 and 26. Were you to try this, I think you would end up with more serious problems than whether distortion would be added or not. Connecting the resistors in this way would cause the output signal to be fed back positively with respect to the input signal, with the usual (undesirable) result. Ignoring this for the moment, distortion from one side of the diff pair would be fed back to the input of the other producing an inverted replica at the drain of the latter. Given the differential nature of the output, this would be seen as increased distortion at the load. But as I said before, this is somewhat academic.
Does this help any? I'm really not trying to confuse even if maybe it seems that way.
Ian.
Grataku, I take your point about information overload, it being summer etc. I guess we are all too busy right now.
Regarding your question about transposing the ends of R25 and 26. Were you to try this, I think you would end up with more serious problems than whether distortion would be added or not. Connecting the resistors in this way would cause the output signal to be fed back positively with respect to the input signal, with the usual (undesirable) result. Ignoring this for the moment, distortion from one side of the diff pair would be fed back to the input of the other producing an inverted replica at the drain of the latter. Given the differential nature of the output, this would be seen as increased distortion at the load. But as I said before, this is somewhat academic.
Does this help any? I'm really not trying to confuse even if maybe it seems that way.
Ian.
While this circuit looks like it would work fine, It doesn't
qualify as an X circuit as there is incomplete symmetrical
communication of the error signal from one side to the other.
To do this, M3,4,7,8 would have to have their Sources
attached to a current source of some sort, not a voltage
source.
qualify as an X circuit as there is incomplete symmetrical
communication of the error signal from one side to the other.
To do this, M3,4,7,8 would have to have their Sources
attached to a current source of some sort, not a voltage
source.
A new candidate for X-SOZ
Looks interesting and is somewhat similar to something I had in mind. However, I was going to include the 'tail' current source and I would omit the input buffers. I believe I understand the purpose behind the buffers: presumably to achieve decent high frequency response without a murderously low imput impedance. I'm a little reluctant to include them though for two reasons: 1. I with them I am not the circuit qualifies as a Zen (it is now two stage) and 2) if you are going to add an extra stage, why not build an Aleph-X?
A small word of caution, if you do add the 'tail' current source then something will need to be done to achieve DC stability...
Nice to see some interest at last
Ian.
Looks interesting and is somewhat similar to something I had in mind. However, I was going to include the 'tail' current source and I would omit the input buffers. I believe I understand the purpose behind the buffers: presumably to achieve decent high frequency response without a murderously low imput impedance. I'm a little reluctant to include them though for two reasons: 1. I with them I am not the circuit qualifies as a Zen (it is now two stage) and 2) if you are going to add an extra stage, why not build an Aleph-X?
A small word of caution, if you do add the 'tail' current source then something will need to be done to achieve DC stability...
Nice to see some interest at last
Ian.
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