Wow! horn philosophy...

[AndrewT]

............Their replacements didn't have the WG, being more like the original Bell Labs/WE drivers, so are only ~4:1 CR which means they won't properly load old style 500 Hz horns if a 500 Hz XO is used. The trade-off is a more extended HF due to less acoustic damping and less horn throat 'honk' due to the higher XO point required.

Hi GM,
I can't fathom which attributes belong to which versions?

 

[james02]

Come on guys!

Your safest bet is to ignore Romy as he is entertaining, but has a very polarised view on how things should be and is not accepting of any one else's ideas. Also take with a very large grain of salt the words of people who are trying to sell you stuff, especially if it is expensive.
Some Interesting Reading

I found a picture of romy the cat, horn expert on the web. This man is clearly out standing in his field!

Come on guys!

You are discrediting both yourselves and the community with these baseless and juvenile comments.

While you may disagree with Romy, you can not deny that he spends a lot of time and effort, pro-bono, sharing his experiences. There are a lot of dedicated people here that do the same. Everyone benefits from these generous efforts. It would be a shame if some of these volunteers grow tired of said antics and just throw in the towel.

Going forward, I would encourage everyone to ensure that his or her posts always add value to the community and abstain from trivial banter...

Thanks,

J

 

[Netlist]

Romy has been banned several times from diyAudio but lets play the ball, not the man.

/Hugo

 

[Mr Evil]

Re: Come on guys!

...While you may disagree with Romy, you can not deny that he spends a lot of time and effort, pro-bono, sharing his experiences...

I don't think it's a matter of disagreeing as much as it is being impossible to actually learn anything from him because his "experience sharing" consists mostly of slagging everyone else off.

 

[Netlist]

Gentleman, keep on-topic. Last time I looked it was about horns.

/Hugo

 

[Robh3606]

Forget all the hype roll up your sleeves and try some. That's the only way to know for sure what the deal is. Just use common sense and it will all work out fine.

Rob

 

[Brett]

Re: Come on guys!

You are discrediting both yourselves and the community with these baseless and juvenile comments.

Juvenile and baseless? Get a grip. I've been reading Romy's postings for about 9 years. He is very strongly opinionated and is very quick to put in the boot if he doesn't agree with you, often not in a polite or kind way. I am not knocking him, merely reporting what I see online, and all you need to do is read his own forum and his old posts on AA HE forum to see that.

 

[TrueSound]

If you have the room, the hands on experience and posses the knack putting it all together and taming the beast, horns are without peer. The also must be fully front horn loaded from the deepest bass to the highest treble to be the purest. Most people fail at putting it all together. The integration among the different elements must be finely tuned. When it all comes together it's spooky. The problem is even once it's together it will wear you out, it is possible to have too much of a good thing. Imagine yourself sitting at the table and eating a dozen Chicago cheese cakes.

 

[soongsc]

What system out there is that good?

 

[Hearinspace]

. . . . .The 2nd article goes on for awhile ripping the Cogent horns up one side and down the other. Wow! I must be missing a lot of details about this feud, I hope it's more good natured than it sounds. I wasn't aware that people had such extreme views about horns. I assumed all horn types were just compromises of different types.

As far as the subtleties of horn shapes . . . , I think the issue is that it requires a lot of hands on experience to learn for oneself the whats and whys. Far more than most of those who claim to be "in the know" have actually put in.
I take most of the sniping back and forth between 'experts' as an indication they don't have the experience I want to learn from and a sign to look elsewhere for real info, not that 'masters' never take a dim view toward any of their peers, but they usually have enough experience to see that taking somebody down a notch in public isn't even slightly related to learning more about what they are interested in, and their time is better spent on what they love. I've also noticed that the very best don't usually think of themselves as 'masters' , they're usually too absorbed in their field of interest to think much about themselves at all.

Forget all the hype roll up your sleeves and try some. That's the only way to know for sure what the deal is. Just use common sense and it will all work out fine.
Rob

Yep !

If you have the room, the hands on experience and posses the knack putting it all together and taming the beast, horns are without peer. . . . . The problem is even once it's together it will wear you out, it is possible to have too much of a good thing. Imagine yourself sitting at the table and eating a dozen Chicago cheese cakes.

I've often thought about that proclaimed ". . . just like the band was playing right there, in your living room" sound. I know that if Louis Armstrong was really pumping it up in my living room, after an hour or so I'd end up asking him if he'd " uhhhhh maybe like to take a break or something?" .

What types of horns do you feel are the least colored (by the horn structure itself)?

I don't think I've heard more than a dozen or so different horn set-ups, the ones I now use are conical (Bill Woods' AH! horns) which I've heard with a few different drivers and have found to work well in my living room. Very smooth and integrate well with GPA 515's in Olson cabinets. No nasal honk, no bark/shout. I don't know if they're the best in the world or not, but I like them a lot.

 

[carpenter]

I'm pretty fond of my paper-mache tractrix horns and tapped subwoofer horn combination.

I can literally hear the saliva in a vocalist throat/mouth/lips. The bass horn can rattle the windows, twist the wall studs, and keep me in the dog-house with the wife for a week.

The best part? I only need ten watts. Class-A watts go along ways with horns.

That being said, I do love my open baffle line array too...

 

[GM]

Hi GM,
I can't fathom which attributes belong to which versions?

The 800 series 1" exit drivers are the high compression designs, ergo loads the older horns designed for them better and has less HF gain BW due to its higher acoustic damping: http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/specs/components/802-804.htm

GM

 

[KCHANG]

More impact than dual bamboo drivers

This is a response to Norman Bates's comment (#17 in this thread) that he did not get enough impact and dynamics from two 4" bamboo drivers on each OB.

Hi Norman,

I have the same problem with the TB 4" bamboo driver. Even though I like it a lot in general, one issue I always have when I try to integrate them with dual 15" or 18" woofers on each OB is that the impact and dynamics got lost. I was actually playing with dual bamboo drivers plus a B&G Neo3 on OB last weekend, and was not happy with the sound I got. In terms of impact and dynamics, the 4" bamboo driver on OB is really no worse than some other 4"-5" drivers (e.g., Fostex FX120 and Jordan JX92S) I tried. Even the 8" FX200 is not much better in those regards.

Interestingly, there is another 8" driver that gives me pretty satisfying impact and dynamics. That driver is the A Brown Soun 8" Tone Tubby 8-ohm with a ceramic magnet. I have been using a pair of this driver in my OB setup with dual 18" woofers crossed (4th LR active) around 180Hz. I'd say that the impact and dynamicss of the TT 8" drivers are in a different league than the FX200, and on par with my JBL horn speakers (based on memory, as I left those speakers in Illinois when I moved to CA 2.5 years ago). I am still trying to figure out why that's the case.

Even though there are issues with the TT 8" drivers running wide range, such as the not-so-flat frequency response and lack of extension in the highs, this system is the one I like the best among all my OB projects so far. I am still trying to see if I can improve the highs of this OB system by adding the Neo3 tweeters.

Cheers,

Kurt

 

[gedlee]

While it is true that horns and waveguides have their pro's and con's (as someone said), once you solve the con's in a waveguide it has all of the advantages and no direct radiator can keep up. So why are they not more common, because they are very very hard to get right. You can't just throw them together like you can a two way or three way piston system, they take a lot of experience and lots of measurements to get right. But once right, they beat everything else hands down.

I won't get into the subjective argument of what "sounds best" thats a dead end which has no answer that everyone will agree with, but from a purely technical standpoint the waveguide loaded compression driver has all of the advantages of power handling, efficiency, low thermal modulation and most of all constant directivity.

(And OB's are only a LF solution at best.)

 

[carpenter]

(And OB's are only a LF solution at best.)

B.S.....

 

[tomtt]

Re: Re: Re: Wow! horn of solpy...

the first horns that i can remember, owning, were heppner.

like those in the altec boleros.

$8.95 each at a local outlet.



those w/ 12" philips woofer.


figured the crossover from David Weems book.

not the one about goats,

the one about speakers.



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Looks like something I wrote.

Frankly, considering how personal his attacks can be I'm amazed no one's taken him out.

GM

that would be my guess as well.

as you said , tis a sad thing when someone knows so much,

yet can not focus on more beneficial aspects,

while interacting with others. (*All Knowing smiley goes here*)
1511

 

[Pano]

I'm in agreement with Gedlee and True Sound. Horns are hard to get right. If they are not right, they can sound pretty bad. And that scares away a lot of folks.

But when they are right, they are soooo right.
Not much else comes close.

Carpenter: Those blue horns are paper mache? Nice! I made a set that sounded great, but they sure weren't pretty. A lot of work, too.

 

[carpenter]

Carpenter: Those blue horns are paper mache? Nice! I made a set that sounded great, but they sure weren't pretty. A lot of work, too.

Yes, they're paper mache. On my web site I describe a DIY fabrication process. They sound so smooth, liquid. I nearly wept the first time I heard them.

www.inlowsound.com

You can make them rather pretty if you experiment with the paper mache process.

 

[BHTX]

Yes, they're paper mache. On my web site I describe a DIY fabrication process.

Looks like you're willing to make and sell them too? Any measurements?

 

[carpenter]

Looks like you're willing to make and sell them too? Any measurements?

Beings that carpenter's are a dime-a-dozen these days, I'd be more than happy to make someone a pair.


Measurements are my "golden-ears" wife and her daughter. They swear they're the best things they've ever heard.

I know they fall off a bit above 18k, but I've never heard anyone complain. I've had visitors listen to my system and have their jaws drop. I get more grins than you can imagine.

If you can afford TAD, then you'll probably get all the way up to 20k. Frankly, JBL suits me just fine--they're plentiful and not all that expensive.

I cross them at 500hz and run them all the way to the top. Some folks say that's not the way to go, but I'll have to disagree. This horn seems right at home in the upper range.