The OP might want to take a look at woofers by Eighteen Sound, a pro manufacturer from Italy.
Some of their bigger models feature 16 and 8 Ohm versions, neo magnets, double or triple spiders, and goodly efficiency.
Some woofers by Precision Devices may also fit the bill, but they are expensive, so they actually might not.
Some of their bigger models feature 16 and 8 Ohm versions, neo magnets, double or triple spiders, and goodly efficiency.
Some woofers by Precision Devices may also fit the bill, but they are expensive, so they actually might not.
selenium high q required for closed box. Selenium has that only watch out for the limited xmax. works fine for hifi medium power.
simulation series resistance 0,4 ohm of filter is calculated.
http://www.selenium.com.br/site/assets/produtosfinal/262_pdfManual.pdf
simulation series resistance 0,4 ohm of filter is calculated.
http://www.selenium.com.br/site/assets/produtosfinal/262_pdfManual.pdf
Attachments
It's 5 dB down at 60 Hz. Even with room contribution, the low end will be suffering. eq'ing the response just gets the overall sensitivity down, to a normalt 15" hifi woofer, with natural linearity in the low end (not the high mass moderne woofers - try look at the Peerless i'm linking)
closed box Q
I prefer a Q around 0.6. Much lower than that and you get what I call "market-place-bass" - it sounds like bass in a very large outdoor setting. I know a guy with a closed box speaker with a Q of 0.3 and it sounds remarkably bad.
Best
Kris
I prefer a Q around 0.6. Much lower than that and you get what I call "market-place-bass" - it sounds like bass in a very large outdoor setting. I know a guy with a closed box speaker with a Q of 0.3 and it sounds remarkably bad.
Best
Kris
18 Sound sealed enclosure
I know 18Sound fairly well and their woofers are made for sound reinforcement which means ported enclosures.
I specifically asked about woofers for closed box.
Kris
The OP might want to take a look at woofers by Eighteen Sound, a pro manufacturer from Italy.
Some of their bigger models feature 16 and 8 Ohm versions, neo magnets, double or triple spiders, and goodly efficiency.
Some woofers by Precision Devices may also fit the bill, but they are expensive, so they actually might not.
I know 18Sound fairly well and their woofers are made for sound reinforcement which means ported enclosures.
I specifically asked about woofers for closed box.
Kris
My best attempt so far is a ported box that 'sounds' like a closed box (basically an overdamped response) with a low port tuning (~32hz). Doing that and using activated charcoal to increase box compliance by an estimated 50% and playing some (passive) xover tricks to fill in the otherwise saddle shaped LF response allows me to get 90db + at 40hz trending to 100db/w/m above 60hz in half space in a 100 liter enclosure using a JBL 2220A. Part of the xover is 600uF of polypropylene input coupling capacitance which limits excursion below the passband and give an extra db or two response in the 30-40hz range. This capacitance value would seem a bit low, but this is actually a true 16 ohm system (that I allow to dip to 12 below 40 hz to scoop up a db or two more sensitivity in that range), even though it uses an '8 ohm' bass driver partly due to a custom wound air core transformer in the xover which almost completely flattens the upper BR impedance peak, turning it into into more sensitivity in the 50-80 hz range. I call it the Iron Lawbreaker.
I have considered making a super low moving mass high efficiency 15" driver that might work in a closed box for good bass extension but have not found the time yet.
I have considered making a super low moving mass high efficiency 15" driver that might work in a closed box for good bass extension but have not found the time yet.
Last edited:
It may not be low enough but I am running two Acoustic Elegance TD15S to achieve a good response sealed to ~45Hz. As I say, not sure if this is low enough but you could run them in series for 16 Ohms. It requires a big box! 
This should be ideal, I should've thought about it earlier:
400 EXC SUPRAVOX
High efficiency, low fs, light cone, adjustable motor strength (Q), how adorable!!
400 EXC SUPRAVOX
High efficiency, low fs, light cone, adjustable motor strength (Q), how adorable!!
He needs LARGE drivers do this and still have sensitivity.
TD18H from AEspeakers.com is a SICK woofer.
Depending on what he considers efficient, I Would even say the AV15H is another incredible woofer. Its actually a subwoofer but its sensitivity is the highest for that class of designs I have ever seen and it digs deep!!
TD18H from AEspeakers.com is a SICK woofer.
Depending on what he considers efficient, I Would even say the AV15H is another incredible woofer. Its actually a subwoofer but its sensitivity is the highest for that class of designs I have ever seen and it digs deep!!
Last edited:
As noted, physics and physical construction conspire against very efficient drivers with a low -3 dB point in a sealed box.
BUT
those woofers can still have JUST AS MUCH SENSITIVITY at the low frequencies. If you use driver simulators like LEAP and play around with BL product (I think), you'll notice that the response at the lowest frequencies actually stays the same. The output just keeps going up more to higher frequencies.
To put it another way, in that case the woofer with the lower sensitivity has a lower -3 dB point NOT because it is more sensitive in the bass, but just because the midrange has been cut down compared to the lows.*
So?
Well, -3 dB is just an artificially chosen point anyway. Roy Allison famously showed how much room boundaries reinforce the low end, and if you design your box correctly and position it correctly, you should be able to maintain the high efficiency down to very low frequencies. You probably do indeed want to look at low-Q alignments and watch more like the -12 dB point.
And yes, there is always EQ. Even if you have to add in some power on the low end, your overall efficiency will still be much higher. Of course, EQ can be hard to add if you're using a multichannel receiver, but in that case if it has Audyssey MultEQ built in that can achieve the same and more (though I'm not sure just how low it will EQ the system down to).
*It makes a lot more sense with a picture; can I paste an image in-line somehow?
BUT
those woofers can still have JUST AS MUCH SENSITIVITY at the low frequencies. If you use driver simulators like LEAP and play around with BL product (I think), you'll notice that the response at the lowest frequencies actually stays the same. The output just keeps going up more to higher frequencies.
To put it another way, in that case the woofer with the lower sensitivity has a lower -3 dB point NOT because it is more sensitive in the bass, but just because the midrange has been cut down compared to the lows.*
So?
Well, -3 dB is just an artificially chosen point anyway. Roy Allison famously showed how much room boundaries reinforce the low end, and if you design your box correctly and position it correctly, you should be able to maintain the high efficiency down to very low frequencies. You probably do indeed want to look at low-Q alignments and watch more like the -12 dB point.
And yes, there is always EQ. Even if you have to add in some power on the low end, your overall efficiency will still be much higher. Of course, EQ can be hard to add if you're using a multichannel receiver, but in that case if it has Audyssey MultEQ built in that can achieve the same and more (though I'm not sure just how low it will EQ the system down to).
*It makes a lot more sense with a picture; can I paste an image in-line somehow?
LAT 500
Thank you. Many have offered advise and opinion, some have suggested drivers only suitable for ported designs.... I prefer sealed as stated in the beginning of this thread.
Meanwhile, I have found these interesting drivers. No, they are not really high efficiency designs nor are they necessarily 16 ohm units. Here goes:
SB Acoustics 12"
SB Acoustics :: 12" SB34NRX75-6
CLassic Peerless woofer - the SLS 12
830669 SLS 12″ Subwoofer Peerless Datasheet
Monacor SPH 250CTC 2 x 8 ohm
http://www.monacor.dk/produkter/hoejttalerenheder-hifi10-12/vnr/101820/?type=257&no_cache=1
And finally the most promising driver: LAT 500 from Tymphany
http://www.tymphany.com/files/products/pdf/LAT500-002.pdf
The SB Aacoustics woofer models really well in WinISD but requires a huge box for a Q of 0.6 and is only 6 ohm.
Peerless SLS also looks nice but again; huge box.
The Monacor would be a winner except I dont trust their specs. The sensitivity figure is probably with the coils in parallel. Pro: Small enclosure Con: SB and Peerless goes deeper.
Then there is Tymphany LAT 500 - this model has two 16 ohm coils or two 8 ohm coils. Unlike a regular dual coil woofer this one needs both coils connected to work. I really models like a champ. Great extension and can sit in a fairly small enclosure.
None of these units are expensive (where I live) but I haven't heard any of them either, so I am asking if anybody here has first hand experience with these drivers AND has an opinion on their sound? Are they articulate, do they sound slow or fast or hard or soft etc.
Tadman (who sometimes posts here) thinks the LAT 500 is the bees knees and I do respect his opinions, but I would like to hear from others.
Kindly
Kris
BTW. I don't care for HT sound. My taste is in classical music as well as jazz. 90% of my listening is acoustic music so this is what guides my selection of woofers.
Thank you. Many have offered advise and opinion, some have suggested drivers only suitable for ported designs.... I prefer sealed as stated in the beginning of this thread.
Meanwhile, I have found these interesting drivers. No, they are not really high efficiency designs nor are they necessarily 16 ohm units. Here goes:
SB Acoustics 12"
SB Acoustics :: 12" SB34NRX75-6
CLassic Peerless woofer - the SLS 12
830669 SLS 12″ Subwoofer Peerless Datasheet
Monacor SPH 250CTC 2 x 8 ohm
http://www.monacor.dk/produkter/hoejttalerenheder-hifi10-12/vnr/101820/?type=257&no_cache=1
And finally the most promising driver: LAT 500 from Tymphany
http://www.tymphany.com/files/products/pdf/LAT500-002.pdf
The SB Aacoustics woofer models really well in WinISD but requires a huge box for a Q of 0.6 and is only 6 ohm.
Peerless SLS also looks nice but again; huge box.
The Monacor would be a winner except I dont trust their specs. The sensitivity figure is probably with the coils in parallel. Pro: Small enclosure Con: SB and Peerless goes deeper.
Then there is Tymphany LAT 500 - this model has two 16 ohm coils or two 8 ohm coils. Unlike a regular dual coil woofer this one needs both coils connected to work. I really models like a champ. Great extension and can sit in a fairly small enclosure.
None of these units are expensive (where I live) but I haven't heard any of them either, so I am asking if anybody here has first hand experience with these drivers AND has an opinion on their sound? Are they articulate, do they sound slow or fast or hard or soft etc.
Tadman (who sometimes posts here) thinks the LAT 500 is the bees knees and I do respect his opinions, but I would like to hear from others.
Kindly
Kris
BTW. I don't care for HT sound. My taste is in classical music as well as jazz. 90% of my listening is acoustic music so this is what guides my selection of woofers.
Last edited:
I have the LAT250s, I liked it in a small application but it didnt go very deep. I always wanted to try the LAT500s.
Have you considered the TD series from AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely. TD12X or TD12S are good higher sensitivity woofers that handle all the power you can throw at them. I use the TD12S in a sealed bass bin.
Have you considered the TD series from AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely. TD12X or TD12S are good higher sensitivity woofers that handle all the power you can throw at them. I use the TD12S in a sealed bass bin.
After searching for high efficient OB speakers. I found some drivers that do very good.
ad audio R1524 and R1834
HTH AD-Audio bersichtsliste
ad audio R1524 and R1834
HTH AD-Audio bersichtsliste
Attachments
The lat500 is 89dB 1wmtr that is not what I would call high efficient.
Then I know a other down to -3dB 40Hz 37 liter closed.
http://www.mivoc.com/mivoc/PDF/HCM12T-Datenblatt_Web.pdf
There are some great high efficiency subwoofers out there but they are 15"-18". If you are able to fit that size sub then a JBL 2242H or JBL 2245H (if you can find one) or similar driver would have what you are looking for. You may have to add a bit of EQ to flatten out the response but with their sensitivity and power handling you really wont lose anything.
Griffin Audio USA LLC is a company that makes subs like this. There used to be a build up of their G1 mastering loudspeaker online but I can't find it anywhere. I am guessing they took it down once they became commercial.
Griffin Audio USA LLC is a company that makes subs like this. There used to be a build up of their G1 mastering loudspeaker online but I can't find it anywhere. I am guessing they took it down once they became commercial.
I think you are refering to my own old website? The entire site is offline as I have no interest in maintaining it any longer. There were pics and info on how we made the G1 and G2 speakers. I was the main designer for those systems, but I have sold all my interests in the Griffin speakers a long time ago and have no relation to Griffin products or Griffin Audio.
But whow... the floor-standing G1 is an amazing speaker! Sadly only two pairs exist.
I've posted SB Acoustics SB34NRX75-6 12" on post#6. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...-drivers-sealed-bass-channel.html#post2326193
...But you never thank-you-me.
Pay attention for graph of response curve (dB) measurement with "mic" at 31.6cm (or 1/3M).
Also look at this driver http://eminence.com/pdf/kappalite-3012lf.pdf
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.