Why...?
For me the reason to make some DIY speakers was that it was the best way to try a set of big BLH fullranges.
Since I'm to lazy to study the physics of speaker design I settled for a well reputaded speaker. The Sachiko.
And I've never looked back! In fact I sold my Klipsch Cornwall IIIs and upgraded my electronics. So now I'm palying on the cheapest set of speakers I've had in 20years with the most expencive electronics I've ever had... And I absolutely enjoy every second I listen to music from this!
For me the reason to make some DIY speakers was that it was the best way to try a set of big BLH fullranges.
Since I'm to lazy to study the physics of speaker design I settled for a well reputaded speaker. The Sachiko.
And I've never looked back! In fact I sold my Klipsch Cornwall IIIs and upgraded my electronics. So now I'm palying on the cheapest set of speakers I've had in 20years with the most expencive electronics I've ever had... And I absolutely enjoy every second I listen to music from this!
bingo!
I think most of us repeat offenders can substitute particular brand / model names, and arrive at the same conclusion
Wow, what an excellent thread to make one reflect!
I started out as a budget audiophile (read: second hand) and have owned a lot of very good speakers over the years. Finally I got to the point where DIY was the next step into unexplored country. Was it the lure of low budget? Pure "full range" high fidelity? Just wanting to see if I could make something as good or better than the commercial guys? Some of all three, I'm sure.
Budget: It amazed me when I would read reviews of super cheap single driver speakers powered by some $40 t-amp. I think the first ones that got me drooling was a review of the Merril Zigmahornets. I think at the time you could build a pair of these, including the drivers, for under $100 US. Pick up a little battery powered T-amp and feed it line level in from a cheap CD player (I think the article used a 1st gen playstation picked up at a garage sale or something). Ok, so what could I do with real money? Sure, I read about exotics like the Feastrix and Lowthers, etc. but surely that shoots the "budget" idea out of the sky like duck hunting with a nuclear warhead...
My first "DIY" was a relatively cheap pair of Audio Nirvana Super 8" (US$158/pair), straight wire from the amp to the driver, no banana plugs or anything to "compromise the signal". Next was a dayton t-amp and then a bigger t-amp. Then I built my second cabinet for this same pair of drivers! At this point I had spent more on wood and glue than the drivers cost me! But I had fun, and it was a very worthwhile experience to see how building a cabinet myself, and further modifying it might change the sound. I was still very much a full range purist of a sort. That means no crossover, no EQ, no helper subwoofer, not even a Zobel circuit, because after all... If I start throwing a bunch of electronics at the sound how am I any better than any of the commercial companies? No, it needed to be all DIY then. How about doing baffle compensation with wood?
Now I'm down to my latest build, a two way, and yes the Audio Nirvana Super 8" (by now well broken in... and yes, it does make a difference!) get to play too. Thanks to Martin King's work on open baffles I'm now the proud owner of a pair of Goldwood 18" H-frames with my Nirvana's sitting in a separate baffle above them. And I'm going active crossover and dual amps!
So much for single driver "purist", eh? But I tell you, they sound great and cost me less than US$600 (including the crossover) to put together. Anyone want to shoot out some numbers on what a pair of commercially made full range dipoles cost these days?
I've also spent many, many hours working with my hands and sometimes large, dangerous and noisy power tools. At times it's even been an affair for the whole family. Nothing like seeing your kids and wife covered in sawdust and woodglue and having a good time doing it too. This sort of therapy = priceless.
planet10 said "DIY is like cookies, hard to have just 1."
I love that! Can I have your permission to quote you for my signature?
I started out as a budget audiophile (read: second hand) and have owned a lot of very good speakers over the years. Finally I got to the point where DIY was the next step into unexplored country. Was it the lure of low budget? Pure "full range" high fidelity? Just wanting to see if I could make something as good or better than the commercial guys? Some of all three, I'm sure.
Budget: It amazed me when I would read reviews of super cheap single driver speakers powered by some $40 t-amp. I think the first ones that got me drooling was a review of the Merril Zigmahornets. I think at the time you could build a pair of these, including the drivers, for under $100 US. Pick up a little battery powered T-amp and feed it line level in from a cheap CD player (I think the article used a 1st gen playstation picked up at a garage sale or something). Ok, so what could I do with real money? Sure, I read about exotics like the Feastrix and Lowthers, etc. but surely that shoots the "budget" idea out of the sky like duck hunting with a nuclear warhead...
My first "DIY" was a relatively cheap pair of Audio Nirvana Super 8" (US$158/pair), straight wire from the amp to the driver, no banana plugs or anything to "compromise the signal". Next was a dayton t-amp and then a bigger t-amp. Then I built my second cabinet for this same pair of drivers! At this point I had spent more on wood and glue than the drivers cost me! But I had fun, and it was a very worthwhile experience to see how building a cabinet myself, and further modifying it might change the sound. I was still very much a full range purist of a sort. That means no crossover, no EQ, no helper subwoofer, not even a Zobel circuit, because after all... If I start throwing a bunch of electronics at the sound how am I any better than any of the commercial companies? No, it needed to be all DIY then. How about doing baffle compensation with wood?
Now I'm down to my latest build, a two way, and yes the Audio Nirvana Super 8" (by now well broken in... and yes, it does make a difference!) get to play too. Thanks to Martin King's work on open baffles I'm now the proud owner of a pair of Goldwood 18" H-frames with my Nirvana's sitting in a separate baffle above them. And I'm going active crossover and dual amps!
So much for single driver "purist", eh? But I tell you, they sound great and cost me less than US$600 (including the crossover) to put together. Anyone want to shoot out some numbers on what a pair of commercially made full range dipoles cost these days?
I've also spent many, many hours working with my hands and sometimes large, dangerous and noisy power tools. At times it's even been an affair for the whole family. Nothing like seeing your kids and wife covered in sawdust and woodglue and having a good time doing it too. This sort of therapy = priceless.
planet10 said "DIY is like cookies, hard to have just 1."
I love that! Can I have your permission to quote you for my signature?
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Yes of course, if you can make a combination of FR and a woofer, that can be a very interesting approach, I just referred to when using 1 speaker only, then to my taste a small FR speaker lacks the bass weight and definition which I prefer in my listening.
A single well chosen 8" FR driver-based design can be an affordable, interesting and quite universal diy project, in my opinion/experience.
I've tried many, i keep ending up back with the 4-5" drivers that seem to be a sweet spot.
dave
In my brief experience, good 4" drivers (I haven't used 5" ones) seem to have more 3D vs slightly bigger ones (>6 inch). They have a lot of finesse and even at lower playing volumes there's plenty of detail, and to borrow a term from Dave, lot of DDR. Listening experiences are rich though more intimate. Dispersion is probably better too.
Bigger drivers I've used (6.5") have greater dynamics and slam, music sounds big and has more energy. Depending on driver detail and imaging can be top notch too. Probably just a bit less 3D behind the speakers...
Enclosure, room, choice of music are factors too, and so are the electronics involved. At the end of the day, these are my subjective impressions only.
-Zia
Bigger drivers I've used (6.5") have greater dynamics and slam, music sounds big and has more energy. Depending on driver detail and imaging can be top notch too. Probably just a bit less 3D behind the speakers...
Enclosure, room, choice of music are factors too, and so are the electronics involved. At the end of the day, these are my subjective impressions only.
-Zia
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Alea iacta est
And so one day the curiosity grew too big.. Today I got a delivery containing one pair of Alpair 7 drivers and some accessories. They look pretty much as tiny as I had imagined, but I hope they will surprise me with a much bigger sound. My plans are to someday build Frugel-Horns for these. Nothing will happen right away, but at least now I’m hopefully one step closer to the answer to my own question “Why DIY?”.
And so one day the curiosity grew too big.. Today I got a delivery containing one pair of Alpair 7 drivers and some accessories. They look pretty much as tiny as I had imagined, but I hope they will surprise me with a much bigger sound. My plans are to someday build Frugel-Horns for these. Nothing will happen right away, but at least now I’m hopefully one step closer to the answer to my own question “Why DIY?”.
Penkka,
Good to know that you have started the journey!
The Alp 7 drivers has a pretty long break in period. I suggest you start process right away - that way the drivers will sound better once you get them in them the cabinets.
You can read more on the break-in required on the Mark Audio forum. Mark Fenlon advises low volumes at the beginning, around 4-6 hours max. Vocal or soft jazz type of music, no music with repetitive bass lines, loud drums etc. No heavy metal.
- Zia
Good to know that you have started the journey!
The Alp 7 drivers has a pretty long break in period. I suggest you start process right away - that way the drivers will sound better once you get them in them the cabinets.
You can read more on the break-in required on the Mark Audio forum. Mark Fenlon advises low volumes at the beginning, around 4-6 hours max. Vocal or soft jazz type of music, no music with repetitive bass lines, loud drums etc. No heavy metal.
- Zia
Good for you. By all reports, the Alpair 7s are magical. They should be even better in the FH3.
Wow, great topic!
Why DYI? I'm not really a full-range guy - plan on that for a future project - but I know why I DYI.
My equipment is not too bad - some old Yamaha, Dennon, and Adcom - and I wanted a decent pair of speakers to listen to my music with. Unfortunately, the more I looked into it, the more I realized there was no way I was ever going to be able to afford what I wanted.
In my research I came a cross a rule of thumb that generally only 10% of the cost of a production speaker was in the drivers. 10%! No wonder any speakers I wanted cost thousands of dollars. Clearly, DYI is the only choice for me - and besides, I like to build things.
Why DYI? I'm not really a full-range guy - plan on that for a future project - but I know why I DYI.
My equipment is not too bad - some old Yamaha, Dennon, and Adcom - and I wanted a decent pair of speakers to listen to my music with. Unfortunately, the more I looked into it, the more I realized there was no way I was ever going to be able to afford what I wanted.
In my research I came a cross a rule of thumb that generally only 10% of the cost of a production speaker was in the drivers. 10%! No wonder any speakers I wanted cost thousands of dollars. Clearly, DYI is the only choice for me - and besides, I like to build things.
DIY
i agree with LafeEric,
if i see the measurement of a speaker of the year
Voxativ Ampeggio loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
and look on my RDH20 measurement, i listen both,
and the RDH20 is including enclosures made by a carpenter
is cheaper than one voxativ driver.
RDH
it is a laugh
i agree with LafeEric,
if i see the measurement of a speaker of the year
Voxativ Ampeggio loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com
and look on my RDH20 measurement, i listen both,
and the RDH20 is including enclosures made by a carpenter
is cheaper than one voxativ driver.
RDH
it is a laugh
Attachments
Well I did not measure the Voxativ Arpeggio but I listened to it for some 20 minutes.
It was very very good. Quite similar (but unfortunately, with less bass) to a system by Bert Doppenberg which I once heard - which used expensive AER drivers in front horns together with an active bass unit.
Very musical, very transparent.
This does not imply that your RDH would be bad. I haven't heard it. But there is nothing wrong with the sound of the Voxativ. It is in my opinion several leagues better than what you can achieve with Fostex (which are very nice - for the money).
It was very very good. Quite similar (but unfortunately, with less bass) to a system by Bert Doppenberg which I once heard - which used expensive AER drivers in front horns together with an active bass unit.
Very musical, very transparent.
This does not imply that your RDH would be bad. I haven't heard it. But there is nothing wrong with the sound of the Voxativ. It is in my opinion several leagues better than what you can achieve with Fostex (which are very nice - for the money).
Well, I guess "real hi-fi" might be a lot more expensive than I thought. I just checked solen.ca and saw really expensive prices. I can't figure out though why they'd have 1 in stock of each. Who buys 1 driver and why? I'm thinking they might have had 2 of each and maybe someone ordered one of each.
Just little addendum regarding horn speakers. They actually do have some valuable concept behind.
First important item horn speakers are commonly HiEff beasts it means that SET class A tubeies are addicted to horns for obvious reason.
Second horn beaming means listening room needs less acoustic treatment at the cost of a sweet spot's size. But I believe very few audiophiles can afford sealing living space with Auralex due to WAF.
Best speakers i've heard so far were full size Maggies, they do have very small sweet spot, requires huge listening room or very well acoustically treated and crazy cumbersome amplification.
Horns less demanding I would say and let audiophiles enjoy WE 300B.
You were probably looking at something they sell by the pair. Common among expensive "matched" drivers.
I DIY because it's about 213.6 times more fun than walking into a store and buying something the salesman recommends. About 147.9 times more fun than researching on the internet which speaker gets the best reviews. And about 72.4 times more fun than listening to a bunch of speakers at a bunch of stores and picking out the one I like most.
When I DIY, I get to choose every single aspect about the speaker to suit exactly my needs (within my price and abilities). I also appreciate science.
When I DIY, I get to choose every single aspect about the speaker to suit exactly my needs (within my price and abilities). I also appreciate science.
Ryan - you wanna double check your math, I calculate different values, but than it could be a metric / imperial conversion artifact
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