Bro thanks ! but that design is horn design ! cannot you give something inFYI:
b
sealed or maximum ported ! I am a lazy fellow ! I cannot take pain calculate too many things .
FROM WIN ISD I concluded that all these drivers can easily Reach F3 = 20 Hz !
So i can get 20 Hz ! after more tuning ! Suggest now ?
Enclosure design and which driver should be chosen ?
Hey... Can you think of divided system. lets say separate array for subsonic frequencies and a subwoofer limited to 20Hz. Use Sealed enclosure for Sonic fq range and ported for Subsonic. when these two are added you can get flat response deep to 10Hz. using arrey for subsonic frequencies is recommended so that cone excursion is in control at required decibel levels.
Now after you design and finished building your system, How would you measure fq response ? are you equipped with the measuring instrument? cause tuning is always required for finished product. there is some gape between paper design and when you build the design.
Now after you design and finished building your system, How would you measure fq response ? are you equipped with the measuring instrument? cause tuning is always required for finished product. there is some gape between paper design and when you build the design.
yeah i have few software's in the name of tuning product ! and i think all the drivers i have listed are not able to get down to Flat 10Hz ! So now
I am thinking to achieve like this >
F3 10 - 15
To get flat response around 15-20 Hz !
Now I am following the suggestion !
Then Tell Me what should be Optimum F3 and Tuning Frequency .
Drivers are /\
Kenwood Corporation | Car Electroics | Subwoofers | KFC-XW1202DVC
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...Manual1120.pdf
TS-W308F Pioneer - Speakers & Subwoofers - Car*Entertainment
Plus One Is Pioneer 304 which is in WinIsd Pro
.What could be achieved with all those four drivers ? What will be lowest flat frequency that could be achieved !
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I ran the numbers on the first one, the Kenwood & as I suspected..from the numbers, it is a "car" subwoofer.
The box size for a system Qtc of .707 is 2.016357272 cubic feet, ported.
The F3 is at 28.234... Hertz.
Upon further investigation I found this driver and the others have too little compliance...or Vas values. They will not get you down further in frequency...toward your eventual goals. The Vas of the Kenwood is at 3.23...Cubic feet of compliance, way low.......we should be looking at a value four to five times this value. The manufacturers try to make these drivers usable by increasing the moving mass....perhaps it is the 'trick' sculpting or visuals of the cones....purely cosmetic but poor performing. Or perhaps they are beefing up the cones to deal with the harsh environment of auto applications.
_____________________________________________________Rick........
The box size for a system Qtc of .707 is 2.016357272 cubic feet, ported.
The F3 is at 28.234... Hertz.
Upon further investigation I found this driver and the others have too little compliance...or Vas values. They will not get you down further in frequency...toward your eventual goals. The Vas of the Kenwood is at 3.23...Cubic feet of compliance, way low.......we should be looking at a value four to five times this value. The manufacturers try to make these drivers usable by increasing the moving mass....perhaps it is the 'trick' sculpting or visuals of the cones....purely cosmetic but poor performing. Or perhaps they are beefing up the cones to deal with the harsh environment of auto applications.
_____________________________________________________Rick........
1. these are all car audio woofers and BTW the JBL Ref 1260 is actually the Infinity Ref 1260W (maybe what confused you is that Infinity and JBL are both Harman brands).
2. As a very general rule car woofers have limited use in home audio. Car subs are desinged for the car (they are often hardier and depend on cabin gain to get low).
3. If you can find the T/S specs you will be better off. Since I too live in India I know that Pioneer and Harman (JBL/Infinty) do supply T/S specs with their woofers. I am just not sure how close these publihsed specs are to the real specs (assuming you had the equipment to measure your woofers).
Quite a few raw home audio drivers are made in India, unfortunately almost all of this production is for export to Europe and the US. Almost nothing is sold locally. I understand why you have hence decided to use car audio woofers for the home.
Very low bass (sub 20Hz) is diffcult to obtain and requires a lot of room treatment otherwise it can overload the room and actually detract from the music.
yes sir that's true , i am not able to find any speaker manufacturer who sells Woofer for DIY, that's my reason to choose car speaker for home use .
Sadly that is the state of the Indian DIY industry. Many years ago (late 80s) CMM imported some drivers from Focal and Morel but found they could not sell them. In the 90s there was a Bangalore based company called Corrson that tried the same using Vifa TC series drivers and eventually got out of the business.
I import my drivers from the US (places like Solen, Madisound, etc..), Germany (a few freinds help me) or Singapore (my sister's husband helps me there). There is duty and also you need to import a minimum quantity and insure them for damage in handling (I have had many a driver arrive damaged with a misaligned voice coil). Then there are duites and taxes.
Coming back to your problem, many (about 4) years ago a DIYer I know called Vivek in Bangalore (I think he is a member on diyaudio) tried using 12" Infinty woofers for him home audio. He tried several alignments but the bass was always a bit lumpy.
I do not know exactly what the core differences are between home audio and car audio subwoofers (maybe others here can enlighten us) but I would be wary of expecting good quality bass from a car audio woofer used at home.
If you do intend to use Infinity, JBL or Pioneer woofer car audio woofers, be prepared to expect the following.
F3 of about 40Hz, stick to sealed box or aperiodic alignments. Ported boxes are less tolerant of deviation from published specs. Use location in room to tune the bass to your liking and that might mean putting he woofer against the back wall to gain from boundary reinforcement.
Very low bass (sub 20Hz) is diffcult to obtain and requires a lot of room treatment otherwise it can overload the room and actually detract from the music..[/QUOTE said:Hi Navin, Nice to see you active in this thread.
Yes, I understand Its difficult to work on sub like 20 Hz. and also about the room treatment. so initially recommended him to use subsonic filter. which in turn gives so called optimal performance for home use. To my knowledge for most of the rooms its gain starts at 30Hz. and curve differs from room to room. making it more difficult to get flat response at sub-sonics. also sub-subsonic detracting from the music is felt very well. but would say they make u feel good when its in open air.( where the waves are not reflected back). also placement plays important role. I guess there are some room modeling tools available which might ease the job.
From Ray's words in this thread I understand he is looking to have his own theater at home and would go for acoustic treatment for the room. ( Hope he invites us to watch a movie and coco - cola
as I knew he would need to tune to his room I did ask him previously if he is geared with right measuring instruments.
Dear Ray, To my knowledge Navin is highly experienced. and if I am not wrong he is professional too. ( Navin pls correct me if I am wrong.) I am reading him from quiet a long time (years) when I was not a member of this forum. As a reply to your private message I had already said that I haven't practically designed any system with subsonic. but guess Navin has done the job with his hands.
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Hi Navin, Nice to see you active in this thread.
Yes, I understand Its difficult to work on sub like 20 Hz. and also about the room treatment. so initially recommended him to use subsonic filter. which in turn gives so called optimal performance for home use. To my knowledge for most of the rooms its gain starts at 30Hz. and curve differs from room to room. making it more difficult to get flat response at sub-sonics. also sub-subsonic detracting from the music is felt very well. but would say they make u feel good when its in open air.( where the waves are not reflected back). also placement plays important role. I guess there are some room modeling tools available which might ease the job.
From Ray's words in this thread I understand he is looking to have his own theater at home and would go for acoustic treatment for the room. ( Hope he invites us to watch a movie and coco - cola
as I knew he would need to tune to his room I did ask him previously if he is geared with right measuring instruments.
Dear Ray, To my knowledge Navin is highly experienced. and if I am not wrong he is professional too. ( Navin pls correct me if I am wrong.) I am reading him from quiet a long time (years) when I was not a member of this forum. As a reply to your private message I had already said that I haven't practically designed any system with subsonic. but guess Navin has done the job with his hands.
Yeah that's what I am trying to do ! Theatering !!
Now I am even more confused .. What to do what not too ! Thank God I have not bought any driver before ! I have expected this unexpected result.
IMO,
you have supplied to little information for performance estimation, i.e. to few parameters are shown in your plot in order to be useful for a serious recommendation other than for addressing wishful thinking.Example of a serious powerful, less than a sq feet footprint 92L T-TQWT using InfinityRef-1260W driver that if put near a room corner will reach over 120 dB flat below 20 Hz - ~80 Hz provided the box is stuffed and a potent sub-amp set to a LF cut-off below 20 Hz is used.
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Hi Navin, Nice to see you active in this thread.
and if I am not wrong he is professional too.
I have not been active in audio since the mid 90s. My active years pre-date the internet (70s and early-mid 80s).
I do dabble here and there but have never been part of the audio (pro, home, car, PA) industry in any professional capacity.
Corner loaded 1260W is exactly what I was thinking, your idea is ncier but a bit more complex to build. I have used the 1260 in my car (as a fill in till my DLS subwoofers arrived from Sweden) and it can go to about 40Hz. With a bit of help from from corner loading and a subsonic filter to remvoe the boom you should be able to go to 25-30Hz.
However since the specs are incomplete I had envisioned a line 4 1260s in a sealed 110 liter box (9' x 12" x 12")/2. The box I was thinking of would have a triangular crosssection 12" x 12" x 17" and strech from floor to ceiling (hence the 9' height). The subs would be mounted on the 17" side and the 2" sides would face the rear and side wall (corner).
Using a 400-500W @ 4ohms plate amp from say Hypex/Dayton/Bash would be your simplest option. Each sub wil get about 100W rms and the subs would be wired in series parallel so they offer a 4 ohm load to the amp.
If the bass is found to be too boomy, aperiodic loading can be added to lower the Qtc.
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