Which EL34 tubes for Hi Fi

[WE91]

Thank you all for your fine contribution to a discussion on the quality of current production EL34's!
I wish more people asked for "NOS quality" in new production tubes! I hope a thread like this will be able to bring a bit more conciousness and selectiveness as to what quality we demand of our tubes, be it EL34's or other popular power pentodes or tetrodes. Triodes as the WE300B, 2A3, PX25 and the 45 has seen some makers come forward with "exciting offers" (sadly also at a too high price). Here's hoping for a revival of the NOS high quality EL34 (at humane prices)!!!

I believe in what you say, Panikos.
I think ALL who test ANY current production tube MUST test it against a reference NOS tube, such as NOS Genalex Kt77, Mullard EL34 or other highly acclaimed NOS !!!
If this became the norm for the condition of MOST (ALL?) tests, then something would have to happen ...
We are (sadly) too happy with what we are offered. We offer almost no claims to quality and are at the total mercy of what ever some maker choose to do, - and we are gullible too it seems. Just look at me and my belief that the "reissues" actually are what they claim to be ... They must be tested against their claimed reference by us, the consumers, and not just by some distributor wanting to sell ... (although the tubestore's test (referred to earlier) seem to offer some clues we might believe, but this test - as all others - are in dire need of a refrence NOS tube to be compared to).

To attempt a rating of current high quality EL34's, may look like this (please do comment):
1) Gold Lion Genalex KT77 reissue
2) NOS Siemens EL34
3) SED "winged C" EL34
... The others ...

Hi, Marcelinho.
Here's what you ask for. I found it at TDSL duncan amps:datasheet
Will look at what info Borderpatrol has for this. I see that 5881 often are mentioned as a 6L6 equivalent ... How good is it supposed to be? What is it compared to?

 

[Panicos K]

It is my belief that taking NOS Mullards or Telefunkens as references,they are a nice point to compare new production tubes with.Having done this in my search for my preferable EL84,I have ended with the Ei Elites.Doing the same with other types of tubes I believe will be productive for all of us.No need to buy those "references",perhaps borrow from a friend for a while.

 

[nic6paul]

I have the JJ E34Ls and I really prefer the sound of my 6l6gcs. I found the e34ls to lack in the bass department.

 

[Panicos K]

Many of us have been in front of this dilema That was I believe one of the reasons why I now spent more time with my EL84 amp.With the exception of a little less power,to me they sound like the perfect mingle of EL34 & 6L6GC.

 

[WE91]

My choice is ...
* I have now just bought one matched quad of NOS Siemens EL34's
(Thank you for your nice help Panicos K )
* - and also one matched quad of NOS EI-6CA7 fat bottle ...
The Siemens at Langrex and the EI at Etols ...

- All in all totalling a bit more than for a quad of reissue Gold Lion Genalex KT77 ... But - now I can really (rock)n'ROLL

Please continue to contribute to this thread, if you will. It is very nice to have such a thread like this for all those searching for the best EL34 !!! Let's be selective and concious!

Thank you all very much for having contributed to this thread

Best Regards Aril

 

[Ty_Bower]

A dutch repair guy rebrands softek 5881wxt as el34 and speaks highly of them.

Does anybody have the sovtek 5881wxt spec-sheet? I can't find it on their website.

The basing appears different (from what I expected), but the internals share some similarity. I'd wager the specifications look something like this:

 

[WE91]

Hi again

I bought my two sets of EL34's based on advice in this thread, but also on the members review at other sites.

Thought I should share this with you
Langrex are selling NOS Siemens EL34's at/near e-bay-going rate nowadays for these tubes (a tad cheaper) at 120£ (about 200 USD at Angela Instruments).

I found a quad of NOS Sylvania fat bottle 6CA7 for sale on e-bay and was researching it a bit, when I saw a very favourable comparison of the EI fat bottle 6CA7's to the Sylvania's on Audiogon. I found that other comments about these tubes elsewhere were confirming this. At Etols the price are fair for an EI 6CA7 at 13,6USD each. In other places prices seem to be going up (e-bay: a matched quad=219USD) because these have been long out of production.

My old Svetlanas are halfway through their life and my reissue Mullard (Sensor) are relatively new. As I said before; now I can ROLL and have fun ...

Best Regards Aril

 

[WE91]

Hi again ...

When I get all the tubes and get my Hi Fi up and going (I've been an addicted DIY loudspeakerbuilder for some time), I'll be reporting my humble findings when comparing my EL34's (old Svetlana, Mullard New Sensor reissue, EI 6CA7 and NOS Siemens) on this site/in this thread and also adding my impressions of switching between different NOS small signal tubes in the JH50 and how this impact on my findings regarding the EL34's ...
(got different top NOS small signal tubes on their way too).
I do not know when this comparison will happen, as my loudspeakers always are in some state of changing (between projects) - always developing ...

To sum up "the list" (in a sort of ranked form):
* On a shared top position: The reissue Genalex KT77 and NOS Siemens (these KT77 close to the NOS KT77 in sound, the Siemens more "tight" sounding).
* On a shared second: SED "winged C" EL34 (a bit "forward" in upper midrange, but very resolving and tight. Good imaging, like old Svetlana). NOS EI (fat bottle) 6CA7's (tone, details close to or better (some says) than NOS Sylvania 6CA7 - based on reports on Audiogon and other).
* Electro Harmonix (fat bottle) 6CA7 (these are good, but how good? Thus ranking these are a bit unfair)
* Valve Art EL34 (same comment as for EH)

Thank you for your contribution

Best Regards Aril

 

[ja2dhc]

To attempt a rating of current high quality EL34's, may look like this (please do comment):
1) Gold Lion Genalex KT77 reissue
2) NOS Siemens EL34
3) SED "winged C" EL34
... The others ...

I have only Shugang and SED "Wing C". The cathode temperature of
"Wing C" looks lower than Shugang's since the color of cathode surface
looks dark. I suspect this low temperature is intentionally designed to
lower the G1 temperature. In general, temperature of G1 in EL34 is high,
so big heatsink is affixed at the top of pillar of G1. High temperature of
G1 causes bad behavior such as grid emission. In addition, G1 of "Wing C"
is gold plated to minimize grid emission. I believe such a low temperature
design for G1 contributes to good sonic.

In fact. AES says "With a gold-plated molybdenum alloy grid and
carbon-coated screen grid, the EL34 is the finest power tube of its
type being manufactured today." as is described in the below URL.

http://www.tubesandmore.com/scripts...H_TREE01=01_TUBES&SEARCH_TREE02=00003_WINGEDC

 

[WE91]

Small update: Got mail from Etols (Belgium firm). Their EI 6CA7's are sadly sold out! They were listed as "in stock" but I guess that's changed by now! Sorry! Another nicec tube is "unavailable" to us then ...
I found this at Audiogon, that may make me want a quad of the EH 6CA7's: Here

 

[rknize]

I don't quite understand that Audiogon posting. The second post says that the EL34 is a beam pentode. I always assumed that when someone says "beam pentode" they really mean beam tetrode...two grids and a set of beam formers. The EL34 doesn't have beam formers so isn't is a true pentode? The only reason the beam tubes came along was to get around the patent on the suppressor grid.

So my understanding is that a true EL34 is a pentode and a 6CA7 is a beam tetrode or beam pentode if you prefer. IIRC the 6CA7 is a military grade EL34 build as a tetrode for better reliability.

 

[ja2dhc]

I always assumed that when someone says "beam pentode" they really mean beam tetrode...two grids and a set of beam formers.

EL34 was developed by PHILIPS just after WW2 (1947?). The datasheet
of PHILIPS' can be downloaded from the below URL.

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/030/e/EL34.pdf

It clearly describes "PENTODE", not "BEAM" nor TETRODE". I don't know
the internal constructions of the other EL34's.

 

[WE91]

Hi folks

Here's one of the better reviews I've seen on the net. It is from Watford Valves in UK. Test
Based on this test it may seem that the SED "winged C" EL34 should move up on the list and be regarded as equal, but different, to the NOS Siemens. The EH 6CA7 seems to absolutely defend a good ranking on this list! Depending on amplifier/use/personal taste this may be one of the very best!
The "Reflektor/Sovtek" Genalex reissue KT77 is too new for this test. Trying to understand how these may be rated by Watford: They do treat their selected, best sounding tubes to a cryogenical process. The reissue Genalex KT77's isn't on this list, while "winged C" is there! ... The Valve Art seems to be regarded as a good tube - but I lack any real comparison for this one to others.

The KT77's and 6CA7's are beam tetrodes ... They tend to sound quite diffrent to regular EL34's

Here's the new suggested ranking:
1) Three tubes: NOS Siemens, SED "Winged C" and (?)reissue Gold Lion Genalex KT77's
2) Electro Harmonix 6CA7 (seems to equal the NOS Sylvania and EI 6CA7's).
3) Valve Art

If other tubes (current production or available NOS) should have been mentioned here, please suggest and offer some reason to why too ...

Best Regards
Aril

 

[rknize]

Anyone have any clues about the mysterious "Mullard" Groove Tubes GTEL34M? There is little to no information about where these are made. They seem to imply that they are made in the USA like their 6AC7GE was, but that can't be true. The pictures look like a Shuguang EL34 in a "normal" EL34 bottle with an extra getter. Granted, the Chinese EL34 was probably modeled against the Mullard anyway.

Just curious.

 

[WE91]

Hi rknize.
I asked a bit about the Groove Tube earlier in this thread, and the answer was that they are tubes made in China or Russia and are to be regarded as similar to Shuguang/Valve Art or "unknown" Russian made ... It has been implied that it might be different makers involved too ... Thus this tube is not ranked here.

 

[rknize]

LOL...oops you are right. Guess they probably are made in Chian. That may not be a bad thing necessarily, but whatever. The quad of Shuguangs that I have are pretty good, but I wouldn't want to pay more for GT-blessed versions of them.

 

[WE91]

Hi again.
It is a pity that there are few (any?) non partial tests (by who?) of current production tubes compared to the old NOS reference tubes, as this is the only way we would know how we're doing with new production tubes.
- We just have to take the manufacturers word for it (or people "blessing" others tubes with their logo - and charging you extra) - and that isn't good at all!
For the EL34 type tube the references would be: NOS Mullard XF2, NOS M.O. Valve Genalex Gold Lion KT77 and the NOS Sylvania 6CA7's.
The test I've linked to, made by Watford Valves in 2005, is the closest to this kind of test I've found, since it has the NOS Mullard as it's reference. It is still a retailer's review though. The Tubestore review here only compares the current offer of EL34's to eachother - and is also written by a retailer.
The last "ranked" listing I've made is mostly based on the Watford test, comments/experience shared in this thread (the reissue Genalex KT77 is compared to NOS Mullards by "audio845" and "sepolansky") and comments on Audiogon and other.
In this listing I've chosen to let three brands share the 1st place. They all seem very worthy and are probably as good as most NOS tubes and very close to, or even as good as, the NOS references mentioned above As this is very much about your own taste, what amplifier and what use, the EH 6CA7's should probably also be up on the shared 1st place for more diversity ...

This list was what I wanted to be able to do, since such a list was lacking! I think we are close to the final now ...

Comments on this please:
A shared 1st place to: NOS Siemens, Genalex KT77 reissue, SED "winged C" and EH-6CA7 ...

Best Regards
Aril

 

[Panicos K]

Hi Aril,worthy is a carefully chosen and safe word and I agree with you,but that is all.I believe,and this is a strictly personal opinion after I have heard many NOS and reissues of many types,that with so many excellent tube amplifiers around,worthy tubes are not good enough.Worthy tubes may transform a superb amp into a worthy one Problem with reissued tubes I have so far listened to,has nothing to do with tonal balance,dynamics,detail,clarity etc...To me,problem is that they are too much of everything.Too dynamic to spoil depth and transparency,too clear to spoil smoothness,too tight to spoil harmonics and so on.I would dare to say too transistory to spoil most of the things tubes can do.If tubes are liked for what they used to be,then no wonder why reissues are not liked as much.I know of many who were one step away from going to decent transistor amplifiers till they have tried NOS tubes.Much of my listening was with EL84's and of all new production types I have tried,closest to the Mullard for example,was the humble Sovtek.I wouldn't pay more for any other new production EL84.I haven't heard them all,but what I have heard was enough so as to make me decide not to go on trying more of new production types.Instead,I have invested in some more sets of my favorite NOS and concentrated in my music.That would be my advice to all.If someone insists on trying,then try as many NOS as possible.You have many chances to like most of them,so you will not find yourself regretting of spending too much on reissued experiments

 

[WE91]

Thank you for your comment, Panicos!
I took your advice and bought a quad of NOS Siemens. I have now bought two more quads; cryoed SED "winged C" and EH-6CA7 (Sovtek) ... Personally I'm finished buying EL34's now ...
I see that you don't like that the New Sensor KT77 is on the list, Panicos. I really don't know ... Is it as good as some say ...
My experience: I have a quad of New Sensor reissue Mullards sitting in my amp now. I've described their sound before, - they are likely to be permanently replaced. Panicos comments seem to go for these reissues ...

 

[Panicos K]

I haven't tried the NS KT77 so I can't comment on that.I have tried the Sovtek 5881 and my opinion is similar to that for their EL84,honest and nice for the price,and not much to worry compared to more expensive 6L6's or 5881's.SED's yes it was one of the best-actually the best-EL34 I have tried of the new production types,just a bit too cold for my taste as I said in a previous post,but a very serious EL34