thanks vasyachkin, it's weird how they would recommend a vented enclosure size when you can't really use these 18" subs vented 
I'll try to figure something out, having 3 18" per side (1 LMS+2 passives) is just too much to handle for me. Do you have some other subs in mind that would give me better 20-50hz than JBL's 2242? By the way, I think I reconzie those binding posts you got there, are they worth the $10? I wanted to get those too.
I'll try to figure something out, having 3 18" per side (1 LMS+2 passives) is just too much to handle for me. Do you have some other subs in mind that would give me better 20-50hz than JBL's 2242? By the way, I think I reconzie those binding posts you got there, are they worth the $10? I wanted to get those too.KCCT82 said:thanks vasyachkin, it's weird how they would recommend a vented enclosure size when you can't really use these 18" subs vented
the binding posts are the ones sold by madisound and partsexpress, probably 10 bucks is right. i think they are fairly decent. the plastic part is fairly strong, not paper thin like i was afraid it would be. i didn't have any problems with them so far.
as far as drivers ... you can always turn a vented driver into a sealed one by connecting a resistor in series (which would be very dumb thing to do imo, but it would work). another way to turn a vented driver into sealed is for a DVC driver to disconnect one of the voice coils (also very dumb thing to do, but would also work).
my point is that a vented driver is simply a sealed driver with a more powerful motor. my philosophy is that strengh is good, even when its excessive. so if i wanted to build a sealed sub i would still use this same driver and build the exact same sub i have all over again.
on the other hand the TC has too much motor force for even a vented sub so if you wanted to use it vented you would have to settle for a response that has a slight dip around 30hz and then a slight bump around 20hz and also to use passive radiators with very large mass and a very strong box ... so you dont want to do that, its understandable
another cool driver that i have considered is this:
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=121&products_id=1710
and also these:
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma 18P1000-1.htm
http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma 21L50-1.htm
i have used some smaller beyma drivers (8", 5" and a tweeter) and liked them a lot but i did not use any of the big ones. i did not use any aura products although their small drivers (3" or so) seem to be popular and well regarded ... nobody seems to be willing to pay the price of the 18".
so in case of those 3 drivers i linked, as compared to the jbl they all have more linear displacement and also more linear displacement per dollar while second and third also have more power handling and more power handling per dollar.
but i dont see these drivers as better than LMS. their only advantage is you can build a conventional box with a relatively flat response using them ... but it would be a larger box and with lower total capacity for bass output. so you would save money on PRs and also some more on amplifier power but you would have a bigger box ... up to you.
there is also this driver:
http://www.google.com/products?q=jbl+gti+subwoofer+15"&btnG=Search+Products&show=li
which is actually very good and incredible for the money ... probably will put out as much or more clean deep bass as the $600 JBL you like but for half the price ... because its optimized for excursion over efficiency and is better matched for application to below 100hz ... one of the reasons i did not buy it is the ugly logo on the cone ... another is that LMS is more powerful.
i was going to add adire audio to the list but it seems that company is dead now ... so thats about it
so you have some good options out there, up to you ...
with reference to drivers in the above post by myself for covering 20hz to 100hz i would rate my preferences like this:
1 - LMS 18" (most peformance, very expensive)
2 - JBL GTI 15" (plenty of performance, affordable)
3 - Beyma CP1000 18" (plenty of performance, reasonably priced)
4 - Aura NRT (absolutely unique and state of the art driver that would be priceless in a 20hz to 500hz range but if covering only 20hz to 100hz you will not be using it to the fullest of its potential which is kinda sad ... because the LMS will outperform as a subwoofer and they cost the same ... of course as a woofer covering up to 500hz i think the Aura NRT has no competition at all)
5 - Beyma 21" - more power and displacement than 18" JBL at the same price
6 - JBL 2242 - essentially a good $300 driver with a $600 price tag ... only overpriced by 100% for what you get. you can get an RCF woofer with same specs for $300 and it will be made in Italy!
the funniest thing is how JBL says it developed a motor that realizes some of the advantages of neodymium without its prohibitive cost ... yet i have neodymium RCF woofers for $320 and the JBL wants $600 for a woofer that they claim could not afford the very motor that the RCF has for $320. actually the cheaper RCF does not only realize the weight savings JBL says they could not afford but is also more powerful because it has inside/outside wound voice coil. but then maybe back in the stone age when 2242 was designed neodymium really was that expensive ? because i remember reading that same exact JBL datasheet when i was in high school and it still says "newly developed" ...
basically the 2242 is a driver that is already obsolete but they keep selling it because people keep buying it either out of nostalgia or as replacement for blown ones probably. in their own speakers JBL already use differential drive woofers (like the GTI 15" subwoofer i linked) but they dont sell the differential drive professional woofers to public (GTI is a car woofer) because they think we dont deserve them just like they dont sell their beryllium compression drivers. JBL keeps all their best drivers for in-house use in their own speaker systems just like Dynaudio now also does.
i think buying that 2242 is like buying a ford mustang from the 60s and paying the price of a new BMW for it ... i think its only justified if you are a collector.
1 - LMS 18" (most peformance, very expensive)
2 - JBL GTI 15" (plenty of performance, affordable)
3 - Beyma CP1000 18" (plenty of performance, reasonably priced)
4 - Aura NRT (absolutely unique and state of the art driver that would be priceless in a 20hz to 500hz range but if covering only 20hz to 100hz you will not be using it to the fullest of its potential which is kinda sad ... because the LMS will outperform as a subwoofer and they cost the same ... of course as a woofer covering up to 500hz i think the Aura NRT has no competition at all)
5 - Beyma 21" - more power and displacement than 18" JBL at the same price
6 - JBL 2242 - essentially a good $300 driver with a $600 price tag ... only overpriced by 100% for what you get. you can get an RCF woofer with same specs for $300 and it will be made in Italy!
the funniest thing is how JBL says it developed a motor that realizes some of the advantages of neodymium without its prohibitive cost ... yet i have neodymium RCF woofers for $320 and the JBL wants $600 for a woofer that they claim could not afford the very motor that the RCF has for $320. actually the cheaper RCF does not only realize the weight savings JBL says they could not afford but is also more powerful because it has inside/outside wound voice coil. but then maybe back in the stone age when 2242 was designed neodymium really was that expensive ? because i remember reading that same exact JBL datasheet when i was in high school and it still says "newly developed" ...
basically the 2242 is a driver that is already obsolete but they keep selling it because people keep buying it either out of nostalgia or as replacement for blown ones probably. in their own speakers JBL already use differential drive woofers (like the GTI 15" subwoofer i linked) but they dont sell the differential drive professional woofers to public (GTI is a car woofer) because they think we dont deserve them just like they dont sell their beryllium compression drivers. JBL keeps all their best drivers for in-house use in their own speaker systems just like Dynaudio now also does.
i think buying that 2242 is like buying a ford mustang from the 60s and paying the price of a new BMW for it ... i think its only justified if you are a collector.
thanks for all the info,
Audiopulse still seems to be in a class of its own. Since we can't get around using a 2 18" passives, what do you think of the REVO line of audiopulse? I was thinking dual 15" Revo in a sealed enclosure. Kinda liked the fact that 2 Revo 15" is still cheaper than a LMS 18".
I don't know if i'm plugging in the parameters correctly, but the dual Revo 15" curve (sealed) actually gives a little more in the sub end than the single 18"LMS (sealed). The obvious answer would probably be that I'm sacraficing sound quality for the lower price... What's your opinion?
Audiopulse still seems to be in a class of its own. Since we can't get around using a 2 18" passives, what do you think of the REVO line of audiopulse? I was thinking dual 15" Revo in a sealed enclosure. Kinda liked the fact that 2 Revo 15" is still cheaper than a LMS 18".
I don't know if i'm plugging in the parameters correctly, but the dual Revo 15" curve (sealed) actually gives a little more in the sub end than the single 18"LMS (sealed). The obvious answer would probably be that I'm sacraficing sound quality for the lower price... What's your opinion?
well yeah, the L in LMS stands for Linear
when LMS came out there was another TC driver with same size and power but minus the linear part ... it was 300 dollars cheaper or so ($1200 vs $900). now it seems that driver was simply replaced with the LMS and discontinued.
however the Revo seems like its still a fairly linear driver even though it may not be THE linear driver. compared to JBL GTI (which people spoke positively of even on the TC Sounds very own forum) the Revo seems to have slightly longer excursion, slightly higher power and a much sexier cone ... but also higher price ... otherwise i would say those two drivers (15" Revo and 15" JBL GTI) are comparable ... i think both of them are well designed 15" subwoofers and both worth the money.
if you're wondering if Revo is just a regular big powerful subwoofer the answer is no. its an audiophile grade subwoofer just like LMS, just less high end. regular subwoofers dont have shorting rings. GTI is also not a regular subwoofer, it also has audiophile aspirations.
Revo or GTI while not LMS should still, in terms of sound quality, be above and beyond pretty much anything else (except the more expensive Aura or the now dead Adire).
i mean if you were to turn on MTV and see what subwoofers the richest rappers put into their SUVs it would probably be something like JL Audio W7 ... well Revo or GTI are probably twice as good.
JL Audio W7 is a subwoofer that is very good
Revo or GTI are subwoofers that are better than they should be
LMS or Aura are virtually perfect
when LMS came out there was another TC driver with same size and power but minus the linear part ... it was 300 dollars cheaper or so ($1200 vs $900). now it seems that driver was simply replaced with the LMS and discontinued.
however the Revo seems like its still a fairly linear driver even though it may not be THE linear driver. compared to JBL GTI (which people spoke positively of even on the TC Sounds very own forum) the Revo seems to have slightly longer excursion, slightly higher power and a much sexier cone ... but also higher price ... otherwise i would say those two drivers (15" Revo and 15" JBL GTI) are comparable ... i think both of them are well designed 15" subwoofers and both worth the money.
if you're wondering if Revo is just a regular big powerful subwoofer the answer is no. its an audiophile grade subwoofer just like LMS, just less high end. regular subwoofers dont have shorting rings. GTI is also not a regular subwoofer, it also has audiophile aspirations.
Revo or GTI while not LMS should still, in terms of sound quality, be above and beyond pretty much anything else (except the more expensive Aura or the now dead Adire).
i mean if you were to turn on MTV and see what subwoofers the richest rappers put into their SUVs it would probably be something like JL Audio W7 ... well Revo or GTI are probably twice as good.
JL Audio W7 is a subwoofer that is very good
Revo or GTI are subwoofers that are better than they should be
LMS or Aura are virtually perfect
hey Mag - sorry to butt in- I don't have your email - can you do a writeup soon on k-experiences so I won't be the only contributor with any experience whatsoever over at the new forum? FWIW theres now a 2-variable wing calculator that give the slot area
K-forum http://gainclone.com/Karlson/index.php?board=1.0
K-forum http://gainclone.com/Karlson/index.php?board=1.0
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