the same could be said for many fullrange afficionados as well
a question that certainly predates audio gearhow should we please the other half?
Danny
and cover up those perkies?
hes really more of a speaker fan, he listen to a lot of music thrue dacs. He have a lot of turntables gear also though, tube stuff, but its really his speakers that are great to have access. to be able to listen to tannoy red 15inch puts everything in perspective.
I gotta say that the fonkens fe127en impressed him a little
Hi Tom
Could you please give a bit more detail on the cone treatments you use? Is it the same as Enable, etc?
Thanks,
Deon
Hi Deon!
I'll be happy to share what I understand about this multi-step, proprietary cone treatment! This treatment was developed over many years by Mike Rispoli a person I met when I first joined the Central Florida Audio Society and who over the 15 or so years I've known him, has become a very, very good friend.
The results of Mike's treatment is very similar to what I'd expect the results would be achieved if you could join the best of what Bud Purvine's EnABL technology does to the best of Dieter Ennemoser's C37 treatment! But let's look at this one-step-at-a-time, ok? We'll start with comparing Mike & Dieter's treatments. When applying the Mike's treatment or the C37 lacquer treatment developed by Dieter Ennemoser to a cone. With both treatments:
- the cone membrane stiffens & behaves more like a piston
- cone break-up is minimized
- frequency response becomes more linear
- distortion is lowered
- transparency & inner-detail increases
- harmonics & timbre are more lifelike
- both frequency extremes are extended
However this is where the similarity in these two cone treatments ends! Applying C37 lacquer to a cone is no different than applying lacquer to a violin or a simple wooden board for that matter. Each application of C37 causes the coat to get thicker as the lacquer builds on top of the previous application of lacquer! That's why when working with lacquer applied to wood the more coats of lacquer applied the deeper you can look into the "shine" as the lacquer get's thicker & thicker. However when that lacquer's applied to a cone it increases the driver's moving mass! That in turn causes the driver to lose sensitivity, speed and detail.
Mike's treatment is also applied to the cone ---{Before I continue I want everyone to please understand I am attempting to explain how I believe Mike's treatment works from what I remember Mike told me. But as a result of the many strong pain-killers & muscle-relaxers I must take I have a terrible memory. Therefore if my explanation doesn't make sense or "if" you have any questions after reading my response please contact Mike directly at the email I provided below, so that he might answer your questions correctly & more in-depth than I could, ok?}--- but, unlike C37, Mike's treatment doesn't and it isn't meant to form a permanent layer on top of the cone! The different chemicals Mike uses are used in a very specific order over a period of about 10 to 14 days as certain treatments are allowed to perform a "treatment" to the cone then either cure or evaporate as thoroughly as they will, at least this is the best of my understanding of what happens.
For the most part these chemicals used for and are only meant to perform a job. Then they will evaporate as thoroughly as they possibly can. Now of course some of the chemicals in this multi-step, proprietary treatment will remain behind, as nothing will evaporate 100%. And with a couple of exceptions ---such as the application of three "stripes"--- which are applied to the cone to perform the same function as the "squares" in Bud Purvine's EnABL speaker technology does, i.e., they reduce standing waves and intermodulation distortion in the driver.
I'm sorry Deon but that's as technical as I can get about what Mike's cone treatment does. Even now I'm afraid what I've said probably has many mistakes. I highly suggest anyone interested in finding out more about this process contact Mike directly at: mike@woodworksofdistinction.com Mike's business is Woodworks of Distinction, where Mike as a master craftsman works on staining, finishing and refinishing wood in the homes of some of the richest people in Florida. You can check out Mike's website here: Finishing Services | Cabinet Refinish | Architectural Finishing Solutions | Orlando It doesn't have an audio section ---{I'm trying to get Mike to change that}--- so until he does it only shows his skills at finishing & refinishing wood...
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
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WE/Altec 755a - the pancake speaker. I found one in my AR-1 speaker to cover the whole range north of the woofer.. the original model before Vilchur discovered fried-egg drivers.*
Even back in 1965, I thought the sound was pretty decrepit, compared to some Bozak and other speakers, not to mention the Janzen electrostatics that were coming out. (BTW, I worked at Bell Labs and used to have various WE horns and drivers sitting around.)
Sure surprises me to find people touting this driver. Of course, there are many qualities to good sound and some of the virtues you can get best with full-range drivers do matter a lot to some ears.
Ben
*while my vague recollection of the 755 is not favourable, I think the 1955 AR-1 woofing is still very high quality.
Even back in 1965, I thought the sound was pretty decrepit, compared to some Bozak and other speakers, not to mention the Janzen electrostatics that were coming out. (BTW, I worked at Bell Labs and used to have various WE horns and drivers sitting around.)
Sure surprises me to find people touting this driver. Of course, there are many qualities to good sound and some of the virtues you can get best with full-range drivers do matter a lot to some ears.
Ben
*while my vague recollection of the 755 is not favourable, I think the 1955 AR-1 woofing is still very high quality.
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If you liked those Wilsons a properly set-up full-ranger would absolutely floor you! I've heard both the WATT/Puppy & Alexandria and IMHO a good, properly set-up full-ranger would blow either of those two speakers away.
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Original debut date 1998, discontinued for at least 8yrs, and $5900 / pr when new, what's not to like?
While there could be lots of fans / owners of Wilson Audio products that might care to differ with Tom, it's not bloody likely they'd be surfing DIY forums so he's probably safe in that respect. But yes, there are likely many well executed DIY or commercial full rangers that could deliver more bang for the buck.
I mean, if we didn't think so, would we be frequenting these forums and building dozens of speakers a year?
I thought that was quite clear. It's a fullranger that runs circles round some Wilson speakers.
/Erling
Like what fullrange? What modern fullrange?I thought that was quite clear. It's a fullranger that runs circles round some Wilson speakers.
/Erling