I would not rely on him to be a reader of the forum. Maybe in your sleep
Let your ears be your guide.
Look forward to seeing the results. I've certainly done measurements of my own that show large temporary shifts in Cms due to excursion and short term memory effects of the suspension but nothing long term or permanent, certainly not in the getting softer and staying softer direction.OK Simon, as soon as my test gear returns from its Hawaiian holiday, I'll try to prove you wrong.
Some drivers with doped cloth surrounds actually get stiffer with age as the solvents of the doping dry out, but break in is no cure for that, it's a permanent ailment
(one of my other pairs of Corals suffered this fate where the surround is so stiff it can hardly produce any bass)
In my experience this "decent into confusion" at higher SPL on complex music with a large driver is due to poorly controlled cone breakup, and the very ragged frequency response that goes along with it. If you see large narrow band peaks and dips in the upper mid/treble frequency response you'll notice this.
I've found the Coral drivers better in this regard than the other 8" FR I've heard, although to be fair I haven't heard many high quality FR drivers. (can't afford lots of drivers!
) What I found worked a treat in improving this is carefully chosen foam damping strips applied to the rear of the cone near the perimeter but in a strategically staggered pattern. When adjusted to give the flattest possible response through the breakup region the improvement can be quite dramatic even on an already good driver. (I've posted details on this in a few other threads before so I won't go over the details again here)
I can honesty say that I don't hear any cone breakup on my coral drivers since those damping tweaks plus a modest amount of EQ to clean up the small bumps that were still left at 2 and 4Khz. There is a dust cap resonance at about 10Khz that is noticeable on some music but not objectionable by any means.
Unless I push them close to their excursion limits in the bass I don't find they get congested or confused sounding on complex music, so I'm very happy with the results.
I don't listen to solo stuff either, I listen to a lot of varied stuff including rock, electronica etc, some of which has pretty heavy bass, and I'm the first to admit that a full range driver is not ideal for this, but they seem to do about as well as any other system with a single 8" woofer, with a pretty decent output down to 40Hz in room.
Its certainly possible to overdrive them with bass and start sounding a bit congested on heavy bass but in the midrange and treble they have a ton of dynamic range performance, if they were crossed over to a subwoofer at 80-100Hz or so (electrically high passed) you'd be had pressed to overdrive them even with apex twin
Is that still full range ? I guess it's a matter of opinion...
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Yep
I tried a few things to revive them but nothing really worked. That pair had enough other problems and damage (through age and wear and tear) that I gave up on them and don't use them anymore, but still keep them to take measurements, try damping tweaks, phase plug tweaks etc...My good pair have an Fs of 47Hz and plenty of suspension travel, the bad pair have an Fs of 115Hz!
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Try to apply Glycerine on both sides of surround and let it stay about 24h, and then wipe out whats left, that should work!
If it don't works than try ArmorAll
http://forums.watchuseek.com/attach...301853-your-galapagos-will-thank-you-0706.jpg
If it don't works than try ArmorAll
http://forums.watchuseek.com/attach...301853-your-galapagos-will-thank-you-0706.jpg
Nah. All subjective listening and guess work.
I still wouldn't go full range smaller than 8", unless there is a helper woofer. Trade offs, trade offs.
I'm certain Vikash did some running in measurements on the early CSS drivers, I'll see if I can find the link.
edit: Here we go, though it was Audax not CSS...
edit: Here we go, though it was Audax not CSS...
My apologies Dave, but still haven't put in the drivers
. The cabs are like 95% done, but that final 5% still remains undone... and now there's Euro 2012 going on...The EL166 MLTLs are looking pretty good after finishing.
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tsiros,
I dont think for a second that my opinion is generally held by many, those who said its a matter of taste and music. If the speakers have a sound you enjoy then there isnt a reason that should stop you from buying/building them. I was speaking purely about my own personal taste.
I dont seriously listen to aphex twin ALL the time
A speaker should be able to play anything right? No matter how bad the recording sounds.
Thats the point. I need a beer, my attempt at humour is clearly too dry
I do agree that some of the smaller fullrangers are only any good for small rooms or as wide band tweeters with subbass assistance, as the bass they produce may not be THAT clean at similar volume levels to a larger driver. I get that. Those old school tannoy concentrics are appealing in a semi relevant way I guess...i dont know the model, but im not so sure about a whizzered 12"
I dont think for a second that my opinion is generally held by many, those who said its a matter of taste and music. If the speakers have a sound you enjoy then there isnt a reason that should stop you from buying/building them. I was speaking purely about my own personal taste.
I dont seriously listen to aphex twin ALL the time
A speaker should be able to play anything right? No matter how bad the recording sounds.
Thats the point. I need a beer, my attempt at humour is clearly too dry
I do agree that some of the smaller fullrangers are only any good for small rooms or as wide band tweeters with subbass assistance, as the bass they produce may not be THAT clean at similar volume levels to a larger driver. I get that. Those old school tannoy concentrics are appealing in a semi relevant way I guess...i dont know the model, but im not so sure about a whizzered 12"
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I had a look at those results, but I have some concerns about the accuracy and validity of the measurements - he's showing a 15% decrease in Qes after breakin, (comparable to the changes in Fs and Qts) but by what possible mechanism could breakin change Qes ? (Temperature increase could cause a temporary increase in Qes but not a decrease, nor a permanent change)
Qes is determined by Re, BL, and the moving mass, none of which will be changing at all after breakin. This leads me to believe that there are some errors in the measurement technique...
Unfortunately he hasn't included Mms or Cms values in the results - we should see Mms stay the same (how could breakin change Mms...) and Cms change, but my suspicion is that if we had the full set of figures we'd see the calculated Mms value also changing, which would indicate a measurement error.
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Something like this:
Zia, how is you all-in-one version doing?
dave
How do you like it ?
I think you've misinterpreted what people have said here. I think we all agree that break-in does happen, from sub-woofers all the way up to super tweeters and almost everything inbetween.
The issue with break-in is by how much things change and by what mechanisms the change occurs by, but I think most people would be in agreement when I say that break-in will not fix a gross issue (and that's what lots of full rangers have) with a driver.
it depend what gross issue is! if it are the peaks than not, but in some extreme cases there is a change from unlistenable to super sound
You just sort of contradicted yourself. But give me 1 example of something that was previously unlistenable that turned into super sound with break-in.
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