Richard Ellis said:
It is indeed a small world, my friend. The very first speakers I ever built contained mids and tweets that were purchased at that Lafayette store.
As you say, it is now long-gone.
Cascade surplus, on the other hand, still lives. It has been a few years since I've been home, so it may be only a shadow of it's former self, but it certainly has made the transition to the 21st century.
http://www.myspace.com/cascadesurplus
w5jag said:
I had lunch w a bunch of guys who all worked together at the same brokerage firm in the early 1980's -- just like the internet and DIY, the junction of the internet and finance has been a mixed bag. There is instantaneous transmission of garbage, purposeful misinformation and rumor (some of which it has caused the bank run of 2008). Same is true in the news business where little is vetted (of course the story about the un-vetted blue-stained dress proves its value as well.)
Among the great publications available from AudioXpress is "Audio Anthology" -- Volume 2 seems to be out of print -- great articles from the distant past.
Back in the Dark Ages of the mid 60s, I lived near a Radio Station.
I made it my top priority to make friends with the Chief Engineer.
As a result, he allowed me to dig through mountains of electronic junk. Parts, tubes, transformers and even some working pieces of equipment. I took these treasures home and built some pretty good equipment.
I later became the Chief Engineer for the same station.
I made it my top priority to make friends with the Chief Engineer.
As a result, he allowed me to dig through mountains of electronic junk. Parts, tubes, transformers and even some working pieces of equipment. I took these treasures home and built some pretty good equipment.
I later became the Chief Engineer for the same station.
Wiring Diagrams
Speaking of Electronics Illustrated! What ever happened to the old wiring diagrams that showed Newbies to electronics how to put together an electronic project without having to know how to read a schematic? Many magazines like Electronics Illustrated and books on electronic projects always had drawings showing where each wire hooked to what component in a very clear, easy to understand drawing. That's how I learned to read a schematic! I would build the project by looking at the drawings and then compare the drawing to the schematic if it was included. If you are building something on a PCB it's not a big problem because the boards are usually marked as to what component goes where. But if you want to build an amp with point-to-point wiring it can be scary!
I think that's part of the problem today in the lack of interest by young people. They look at a tube amp project on the internet and think "that's cool! I want to build that!" Then they look at the schematic and become intimidated. I say, make it easier for Newbies to get started. Once they build their first tube amp they will be hooked for life!
Speaking of Electronics Illustrated! What ever happened to the old wiring diagrams that showed Newbies to electronics how to put together an electronic project without having to know how to read a schematic? Many magazines like Electronics Illustrated and books on electronic projects always had drawings showing where each wire hooked to what component in a very clear, easy to understand drawing. That's how I learned to read a schematic! I would build the project by looking at the drawings and then compare the drawing to the schematic if it was included. If you are building something on a PCB it's not a big problem because the boards are usually marked as to what component goes where. But if you want to build an amp with point-to-point wiring it can be scary!
I think that's part of the problem today in the lack of interest by young people. They look at a tube amp project on the internet and think "that's cool! I want to build that!" Then they look at the schematic and become intimidated. I say, make it easier for Newbies to get started. Once they build their first tube amp they will be hooked for life!
Things were very different back then. I used to buy the odd electronics magazine, especially Radio Electronics, for schematics, or look them up at the library. Even though this limited you, I think that components and parts were much more of a challenge. The surplus stores never really had a full selection of components (i.e. you could practically never find a matching set of pots in the values you needed), and RS was relatively expensive.
One thing that I don't think that has been touched upon is that components are now starting to get harder to find again, as compared to say about 5 years ago when I could get anything I wanted at the surplus store or parts house with ease. Now, because switching supplies have taken over the consumer market, finding a transformer that is good for supply rails at a surplus store is tough. Online parts sources like Digikey are moving away from leaded components because SMD has taken over. You can buy on eBay or online surplus, but the total cost is higher for sure.
One thing that I don't think that has been touched upon is that components are now starting to get harder to find again, as compared to say about 5 years ago when I could get anything I wanted at the surplus store or parts house with ease. Now, because switching supplies have taken over the consumer market, finding a transformer that is good for supply rails at a surplus store is tough. Online parts sources like Digikey are moving away from leaded components because SMD has taken over. You can buy on eBay or online surplus, but the total cost is higher for sure.
Audio Amateur was the primary source for what was happening in the world of DIY audio back in the early 80s. Ed spun off Glass Audio, when was it, back in the late 80s probably. I remember receiving issue number 0 of Glass Audio along with my subscription for Audio Amateur. I subscribed to it immediately. Dynaco ST70s and Pas 2 & 3 figured prominently in these pages as so many of us had these venerable foundations of DIY audio.
The beginning of audio on line was TAN, the Audiophile network which predated RAT by probably 5 years. TAN was a bulletin board, the concept of which is now obsolete. One needed a modem and a computer to access a bulletin board. This was back in the day when the standard modem was 300 bps. I was a technician for a modem company and had a state of the art with the blistering speed of 2400bps.
One would dial into TAN and download the latest messages. Offline one would read the messages and create a response and then dial back up to up load the responses. It is amazing how, over the years, many of the members of TAN (it was a pay service as I remember) went on to be part of audio whether as professionals creating products for consumers or went on to write for audio publications such as Stereophile and Positive Feedback. Does anyone else remember TAN?
The beginning of audio on line was TAN, the Audiophile network which predated RAT by probably 5 years. TAN was a bulletin board, the concept of which is now obsolete. One needed a modem and a computer to access a bulletin board. This was back in the day when the standard modem was 300 bps. I was a technician for a modem company and had a state of the art with the blistering speed of 2400bps.
One would dial into TAN and download the latest messages. Offline one would read the messages and create a response and then dial back up to up load the responses. It is amazing how, over the years, many of the members of TAN (it was a pay service as I remember) went on to be part of audio whether as professionals creating products for consumers or went on to write for audio publications such as Stereophile and Positive Feedback. Does anyone else remember TAN?
I remember alt.rec.audio.high-end on the old BBS systems.
I used to get into gargantuan sized arguments back then.
Some things never change.
Before that it was the usual: Smoke emitting re-organized pulled parts in bizarre configurations. Overtly expensive experiments that might fail, cheap experiments that might work - and plenty of lead, smoke, and electrocution. And, of course..the audio magazine, both DIY and High End review: Porn and instruction manuals for audio nerds.
It is always good to remember that such things evolved from the love of music.
So when we argue here, remember it's not really about the circuit, but how we believe it serves the music. When you are about to lambaste* someone as they don't seem to agree with what you personally understand to be 'true'....remember they are here because they love MUSIC and music FIRST...and the large majority of your anger or consternation with the given situation should dissipate.
*Lambaste: verb
1. To hit heavily and repeatedly with violent blows: assail, assault, baste, batter, beat, belabor, buffet, drub, hammer, pound, pummel, smash, thrash, thresh. Slang clobber. Idioms: rain blows on. See attack/defend, strike/miss.
2. To criticize for a fault or an offense: admonish, call down, castigate, chastise, chide, dress down, rap1, rebuke, reprimand, reproach, reprove, scold, tax, upbraid. Informal bawl out. Slang chew out. Idioms: bring/call/take to task, call on the carpet, haul/rake over the coals, let someone have it. See attack/defend, praise/blame.
I used to get into gargantuan sized arguments back then.
Some things never change.
Before that it was the usual: Smoke emitting re-organized pulled parts in bizarre configurations. Overtly expensive experiments that might fail, cheap experiments that might work - and plenty of lead, smoke, and electrocution. And, of course..the audio magazine, both DIY and High End review: Porn and instruction manuals for audio nerds.
It is always good to remember that such things evolved from the love of music.
So when we argue here, remember it's not really about the circuit, but how we believe it serves the music. When you are about to lambaste* someone as they don't seem to agree with what you personally understand to be 'true'....remember they are here because they love MUSIC and music FIRST...and the large majority of your anger or consternation with the given situation should dissipate.
*Lambaste: verb
1. To hit heavily and repeatedly with violent blows: assail, assault, baste, batter, beat, belabor, buffet, drub, hammer, pound, pummel, smash, thrash, thresh. Slang clobber. Idioms: rain blows on. See attack/defend, strike/miss.
2. To criticize for a fault or an offense: admonish, call down, castigate, chastise, chide, dress down, rap1, rebuke, reprimand, reproach, reprove, scold, tax, upbraid. Informal bawl out. Slang chew out. Idioms: bring/call/take to task, call on the carpet, haul/rake over the coals, let someone have it. See attack/defend, praise/blame.
dear old RAT
yup , I was a Rodent years ago ..... in my virgin internet years .....
my nick is from that era
but I really don't miss it ;
non moderated group is recipe for disaster ;
anyone remember A. Jute and Phil from Oz ?
alt-rec-high- was mainly bull , most of the time measuring which one's is bigger ....
at least in these years when I had peek on it .
yup , I was a Rodent years ago ..... in my virgin internet years .....
my nick is from that era
but I really don't miss it ;
non moderated group is recipe for disaster ;
anyone remember A. Jute and Phil from Oz ?
alt-rec-high- was mainly bull , most of the time measuring which one's is bigger ....
at least in these years when I had peek on it .
Osprey said:
Wow, I do remember TAN, I had a subscription for a short while I guess sometime in the very early 1990s accessed by what by today's standard would be a very slow modem. (2400 baud..
) Subsequently I also joined AOL and started a group there which they killed after about a year or so, at which point direct home access to a very primitive internet was possible and readily available around here. I remember getting that first 28.8K modem probably around '93 or so? It was AOLs cavalier behavior and horrible internet portal that drove me straight to the embryonic internet!! (Trumpet Winsock, win32, WFWG 3.11, Mosaic then Netscape, Eudora, various usenet readers... And an ungodly expensive 486DX33 mobo with 4MB then 8MB then 16MB of ram, 120MB HD)My DIY journey started in the first grade with a 1 tube regenerative receiver that my dad and I built. (Around 1964) Built amplifiers and other electronics during my high school years in the early/mid 1970s, mainly from Practical Wireless, Elektor, Costruire HiFi and Elettronica, and the occasional Popular Electronics, etc.. I also totally rebuilt a Magnovox EL84 based SE amplifier which arguably might mark the start of my fascination with tubes.
Later when I returned from my overseas sojourn I subscribed pretty quickly to Audio Amateur and really got the "bug" to build my own hifi gear - up to that point I considered major brand gear to be far superior to anything I could likely build. I quickly found out that wasn't really the case, but despite reading AA and GA avidly I never built anything from their pages, they were however the inspiration for my own projects in many cases.
The early internet was instrumental in getting my hifi business going, and unfortunately it was also pretty instrumental in its undoing when the bubble burst in 2000.
I was very active in RAT as well as several other groups on rec.audio, and well remember Andre Jute. In its early days RAT was quite civilized, the SNR started to deteriorate seriously around 1998 or so, and while I hung on for a few more years I posted much less frequently after 2000. Most of the more advanced newsreaders allowed you to filter by subject or poster which did help for a while, but the noise bled into progressively more threads over time until it became untenable. I have not looked at any of the rec.audio groups since about 2004. Forums like this one make RAT and many other Usenet news groups quite superfluous, and obsolete.. It's quite clear that some moderation is required in discussion groups from this experience. (IIRC RAT was unmoderated)
The internet in general makes procuring unusual parts for projects much easier, and in a lot of cases is much less expensive. It also means though that people sitting on rare items will probably know what they are worth and bargains consequently are much less frequent.
Andre Jute: there's a name still grates on the mind. It's possible that all anyone remembers of r.a.t. was Jute. I remember giving r.a.t. one more try back in 2003 and Jute was still there after all those years of bullying and dominating with his overblown prose and pompous and condescending way of interacting with those who were there to learn about tube audio. By that time he had been expelled from the Joe list and I went there for refuge. I haven't been back to RAT since.
OTOH RAT was a great place to meet people and discuss tubes. It was also a good place to trade parts before eBay was in full swing. Thinking back on the items I bought and sold there, I can't help reflect on what a two edged sword eBay is.
OTOH RAT was a great place to meet people and discuss tubes. It was also a good place to trade parts before eBay was in full swing. Thinking back on the items I bought and sold there, I can't help reflect on what a two edged sword eBay is.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.