Why not your first set up ?:
8" will work as a sub for under 100-150Hz
12" will cover 100-800Hz : 3 octaves
Neo8S 800-3200Hz : 2 octaves
CD3.5H 3200Hz upwards
Or maybe as said Studiotech : 8s nearer than 500 (near 3 octaves), maybe with a load behind the open back cabinet for it (equal U-frame : felt, wool...) . If U-Frame for Neo 8s, did you consider the loss of about 3 db because the sides ?
As you have a minidsp for crossover with a higher order, 2 octaves can be good ???? About the total Cost : calibrated usb Mic for your miniDSP better less expensive reconsider Neo8s for Neo 10 ?
Theory, I don' try yet... but follow your adventures !
Cheaper neo 10 if really wanted : Bohlender - Audiophonics - Câbles, Amplificateurs et Accessoires DIY but without port.
8" will work as a sub for under 100-150Hz
12" will cover 100-800Hz : 3 octaves
Neo8S 800-3200Hz : 2 octaves
CD3.5H 3200Hz upwards
Or maybe as said Studiotech : 8s nearer than 500 (near 3 octaves), maybe with a load behind the open back cabinet for it (equal U-frame : felt, wool...) . If U-Frame for Neo 8s, did you consider the loss of about 3 db because the sides ?
As you have a minidsp for crossover with a higher order, 2 octaves can be good ???? About the total Cost : calibrated usb Mic for your miniDSP better less expensive reconsider Neo8s for Neo 10 ?
Theory, I don' try yet... but follow your adventures !
Cheaper neo 10 if really wanted : Bohlender - Audiophonics - Câbles, Amplificateurs et Accessoires DIY but without port.
This is the benefit of posting on DIY forums: a saving of €120 right there.
Yes, since I have the DSP (nanodigi), 4 way is no problem.
My problem with the 4 way is cabinet size and room placement.
I want to put the main speakers away from the walls (middle of the room).
And my current prototype mains with the 12" Faital are too big for that (44cm wide).
Before pulling the trigger on Neo10,
I will try Neo8S with a 800hz CO, and if that sounds good I will build new mains with a 8" cone driver: Vintage Seas 21TV alnicos. I can get away with a cabinet width of 25-30cm in that case. And if that goes well, then I can add a pair of subs.
Yes, since I have the DSP (nanodigi), 4 way is no problem.
My problem with the 4 way is cabinet size and room placement.
I want to put the main speakers away from the walls (middle of the room).
And my current prototype mains with the 12" Faital are too big for that (44cm wide).
Before pulling the trigger on Neo10,
I will try Neo8S with a 800hz CO, and if that sounds good I will build new mains with a 8" cone driver: Vintage Seas 21TV alnicos. I can get away with a cabinet width of 25-30cm in that case. And if that goes well, then I can add a pair of subs.
Hi Zmyrna,
why the give up of the Great Plain Audio ?
Why the give up of the 12" Faital...no big problem of directivity below 900 hz... so can match with a CO at 800 ?! What wrote the training ears about the CO of the Faital (with Seos i assume it's relativly high : above 800 hz ?)
The idea that I have it's how you can match the sound of a rapid planar with a relativy heavy big cone with a CO with high order... here a first or second order will nit be better (question to spercialists to match two different technologies with driver at these relativly high frequency : above human voice...) ?
Is an old Alnico enough powerfull or does it need to have a change of magnet (reload) ?
About the rear wall, just my own experience: more than 60 cm is good (enough most of time) and laterals : more if you can !
why the give up of the Great Plain Audio ?
Why the give up of the 12" Faital...no big problem of directivity below 900 hz... so can match with a CO at 800 ?! What wrote the training ears about the CO of the Faital (with Seos i assume it's relativly high : above 800 hz ?)
The idea that I have it's how you can match the sound of a rapid planar with a relativy heavy big cone with a CO with high order... here a first or second order will nit be better (question to spercialists to match two different technologies with driver at these relativly high frequency : above human voice...) ?
Is an old Alnico enough powerfull or does it need to have a change of magnet (reload) ?
About the rear wall, just my own experience: more than 60 cm is good (enough most of time) and laterals : more if you can !
12" Faital makes the main enclosure too wide, too big.
8" vintage alnico Seas have very light cone and are high eff. I have a few pairs in storage and they all work very well.
I haven't given up on GPA 15". Those or the 18" Faitals will go into the subs.
3 way mains plus stereo subs will be the the final set up.
8" vintage alnico Seas have very light cone and are high eff. I have a few pairs in storage and they all work very well.
I haven't given up on GPA 15". Those or the 18" Faitals will go into the subs.
3 way mains plus stereo subs will be the the final set up.
Hey Greg,
That's still one fab space, must be great to work in there.
By the way how do rate the Beyma TPL ( with a good 6 or 8 inch midrange) above 1.5KHz compared to the small B&G Neo driver on top of the bigger one?
Thanks
Derek.
OMG...Greg I want your studio....Aaaargh really want it!!
"Jealously! best regards...LOL!!
Derek.[/QUOTE]
Not mine, just the largest recording room in the area. It's odd to stand in there and realize that my whole house, garage and porch would all comfortably fit inside. I work in a much smaller place. Still VERY nice, but we do not have the real estate that these guys do.
Greg[/QUOTE]
That's still one fab space, must be great to work in there.
By the way how do rate the Beyma TPL ( with a good 6 or 8 inch midrange) above 1.5KHz compared to the small B&G Neo driver on top of the bigger one?
Thanks
Derek.
OMG...Greg I want your studio....Aaaargh really want it!!
"Jealously! best regards...LOL!!
Derek.[/QUOTE]
Not mine, just the largest recording room in the area. It's odd to stand in there and realize that my whole house, garage and porch would all comfortably fit inside. I work in a much smaller place. Still VERY nice, but we do not have the real estate that these guys do.
Greg[/QUOTE]
I think the end use makes all the difference. I personally prefer the Neo combo for hi-fi and maybe the TPL for high SPL/home theater situations. The TPL is sooooo ballsy, but lacks top end extension and air that no amount of EQ adds back, you know? But then the Neo3 can maybe be a little too tizzy for some people if not carefully adjusted. Best choice, Neo8-S or Neo10 mids and Raal tops for the win. I know I sound like broken record, but hey, after trying some so many drivers and systems, they feel right to me.
I"ll be posting something new within a months time I expect. The finished product of the studio monitors I showed off a few places online. Stay tuned-in for more.
Greg
Greg
I have been wanting to use the B&G drivers open back.
But that requires away from front wall placement and with the large cabinets in my case it seems impossible to execute.
So I am going back to single large cabinet with closed back design: In the style of vintage JBL studio monitors (pic)
I have the following options:
Option one: 3 way with
-Fountek CD3.5H
-B&G Neo10
-GPA/Altec 416-8B
Option two: 4 way with
-Fountek CD3.5H
-B&G Neo8S
-8" vintage Seas alnico OR 12" Faital Pro 12PR300 (or similar)
-GPA/Altec 416-8B
Which one to build first (and hopefully last)? Please vote...
But that requires away from front wall placement and with the large cabinets in my case it seems impossible to execute.
So I am going back to single large cabinet with closed back design: In the style of vintage JBL studio monitors (pic)
I have the following options:
Option one: 3 way with
-Fountek CD3.5H
-B&G Neo10
-GPA/Altec 416-8B
Option two: 4 way with
-Fountek CD3.5H
-B&G Neo8S
-8" vintage Seas alnico OR 12" Faital Pro 12PR300 (or similar)
-GPA/Altec 416-8B
Which one to build first (and hopefully last)? Please vote...
Attachments
True reference points
Thanks Greg,
Very interesting and helpful information.
You (and Stig Eric) have such great experience with a broad range of drivers and can test & use them in high grade systems and good acoustic spaces ( still jealous!) that your conclusions are really strong reference points for me.
Looking forward to your next system adventures!
Cheers
Derek.
Thanks Greg,
Very interesting and helpful information.
You (and Stig Eric) have such great experience with a broad range of drivers and can test & use them in high grade systems and good acoustic spaces ( still jealous!) that your conclusions are really strong reference points for me.
Looking forward to your next system adventures!
Cheers
Derek.
Maybe 4 drivers will give you more problems than solutions...have you the room for the 18" in a big closed box if not OB with it?
Some thoughts (looks like questions
) but I don't vote as lIving with speakers is not democraty :
i will keep the Neo8s with the GPA or two Seas in MTM Proac look - diagonal) or maybe side by side à la Legacy audio (try with carton plan or plan wood sheet to have an idea of the sound in OB to avoiding a collection of box but if you plan to made an stairway with those)
Why not U-Frame for the Neo 8s with big& thick damping (one light density fiber glass 2 cm in front of the rear driver and a very high density fiberglass behind the first one plus sides of u-frame damped. Goal: to have something more cardioid to doesn't kill the quality of the Neo8s... a sort of Variovent to be nearer to closed box but larger to avoid reflexion. You can close the back with under carpet felt too...(maybe Greg has some measure with its actual OB with the Neo 10 and his damped design for it.)
As you said the Neo has a big QTC, it will maybe be go back the Fs and have a more soft end roll off in the bass with maybe a flater curve before roll-off and a reduced QTC too...but how will you know without measurement ?
Why not add the improve of low end with U-frame design (but with a 3 DB less too) with the large baffle ? Because the Baffle step ?
Why not he buy of a calib Unik Mic for your MiniDSP (less expensive for set up than buying more drivers ?)
a supporter...
Waiting for to the closed design with Greg's Neo8s. (hurk for me Raal Ribbon are too expensive but my though is it's less expensive to buy first the two good drivers than buy many which don't match. I have a TCO approach and expect of the WAF aspect, maybe RD75 is less expensive for the result than Raal+NEO10 but fear with the RD75 in the low end at more than 3 meters in listening position and last asking myself if a notch at 5000 hz has a sense in a wide band driver????? A notch is a filter !?
Some thoughts (looks like questions
) but I don't vote as lIving with speakers is not democraty :i will keep the Neo8s with the GPA or two Seas in MTM Proac look - diagonal) or maybe side by side à la Legacy audio (try with carton plan or plan wood sheet to have an idea of the sound in OB to avoiding a collection of box but if you plan to made an stairway with those
)Why not U-Frame for the Neo 8s with big& thick damping (one light density fiber glass 2 cm in front of the rear driver and a very high density fiberglass behind the first one plus sides of u-frame damped. Goal: to have something more cardioid to doesn't kill the quality of the Neo8s... a sort of Variovent to be nearer to closed box but larger to avoid reflexion. You can close the back with under carpet felt too...(maybe Greg has some measure with its actual OB with the Neo 10 and his damped design for it.)
As you said the Neo has a big QTC, it will maybe be go back the Fs and have a more soft end roll off in the bass with maybe a flater curve before roll-off and a reduced QTC too...but how will you know without measurement ?
Why not add the improve of low end with U-frame design (but with a 3 DB less too) with the large baffle ? Because the Baffle step ?
Why not he buy of a calib Unik Mic for your MiniDSP (less expensive for set up than buying more drivers ?)
a supporter...
Waiting for to the closed design with Greg's Neo8s. (hurk for me Raal Ribbon are too expensive but my though is it's less expensive to buy first the two good drivers than buy many which don't match. I have a TCO approach and expect of the WAF aspect, maybe RD75 is less expensive for the result than Raal+NEO10 but fear with the RD75 in the low end at more than 3 meters in listening position and last asking myself if a notch at 5000 hz has a sense in a wide band driver
????? A notch is a filter !?
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I think we agree that we're not that keen on boxes, except for low bass, but we're not wedded to the idea of dipoles either. My room is relatively narrow and practicalities dictate I listen across it, so even with reasonable spacing to the wall, dipole operation tends to sound too diffuse to me, although it clearly works for different rooms and tastes. I am in the process of adding room treatments though... BG's own application of the Neo drivers includes in-wall speakers and Greg is getting good reults with the Neo 8S in a box speaker. If you can incorporate it, I expect a short, tapered transmission line for the 8S or 10 would work well, if you wanted an alternative to a shallow box. This might give you the option for more graduated filling behind the driver. Since you prefer an overall 'one box' form factor for the whole speaker, a mid TL like this would fit in well, something similar to the Tysen FAST design of a few years ago.
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Greg,
Which Neo would you use as mid in a 3-way around the Beyma 12P80Nd and the RAAL 70-20XR - and why?
Single per side? Open? What did you end up with for the rest of the system? Have fun!Well I went with the Neo10... hope that was the right choice
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