What sortware do you use to design a PCB?

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Christer

Member
Joined 2002
Petter said:
Many wise points

I still think it is harder to target multiple platforms. With limited resources for design, development, testing and debugging (even if you can reach the write-once, test everywhere scenario - consider even something as "simple" as printing which is very important for Eagle), something is bound to suffer in a cross-platform environment.

Then factor in compatibility across versions across platforms :) ...

Petter
Click to expand...

Not so sure printing is a problem, but I admit I haven't tried
that in Wxwindows. This project has developed over quite a
long time, is free software and is used in many products,
both serious commercial ones as well as freeware. Take a
few minutes to have a look at the website. You don't have to
read the doc, but read a little about the features and reports
on succesful crossplatform software that has been written
based on WxWindows. The guys developing WxWindows are
very serious and competent and work hard to offer a first-class
software despite it being freeware. Besides, there are other
similar commercial platforms.

Compatibility across platforms shouldn't usually be much of
a problem if you are disciplined and really use WxWindows as
the fundament. There are few features that doesn't work
both under *nix and Windows due to inherent limitations in
one or the other, but those are marginal things. It may be that
you may have to take care of different file formats explicitly,
I don't remember how well that is handled, but I think most
usual types of files are transparent.
 
nemestra

nemestra

Member
Joined 2002
Lisandro_P said:
Maybe because it isn't as advanced as something like Protel, which will edit the schematic, simulate it, create a pcb and brew you a cup of coffee. If you can afford Protel and learn it it's hands down the most advanced and professional EDA available, in *any* platform.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the Protel advert, Lisandro. I've used quite a number of pcb tools in the past few years (Cadstar, Vutrax, Protel, Unicad, Cadence, Orcad, Ultiboard amongst others, in no particular order) on a number of platforms, (DOS, Windows and Unix) and am a current user of Protel. 'hands down the most advanced ...' not by a long shot. Its over-complex for what it does, counter-intuitive in places and has far too many 'options' allowing users to make mistakes. It's only good with respect to some of its cheaper relatives and some of its peers. Look at Cadence etc. if you need to see what an advanced PCB system looks like.

James
 
Lisandro_P

Lisandro_P

Member
Joined 2000
nemestra said:
Thanks for the Protel advert, Lisandro. I've used quite a number of pcb tools in the past few years (Cadstar, Vutrax, Protel, Unicad, Cadence, Orcad, Ultiboard amongst others, in no particular order) on a number of platforms, (DOS, Windows and Unix) and am a current user of Protel. 'hands down the most advanced ...' not by a long shot. Its over-complex for what it does, counter-intuitive in places and has far too many 'options' allowing users to make mistakes. It's only good with respect to some of its cheaper relatives and some of its peers. Look at Cadence etc. if you need to see what an advanced PCB system looks like.
Click to expand...

Well, that's exactly what i meant by it being hands down the best. Yeah, it's complicated and has way too many options, but name ONE electronic design step you can't fully cover with it. Like i said, if you're willing to learn it, you can pretty much design anything from scratch.
Personally, i found it the same way as you: way too heavy for what i want/need, through i could appreciate it's potential. I settled for CircuitMaker for a while (think of a lighter Protel), but then realized that Eagle did what i needed (PCBs) much better, even simpler, and UNIX-natively.

OrCad was nice (tried it a good while ago), but i never ran across Cadence. I'll keep my eyes open.
 
Lyra

Lyra

Member
Joined 2003
Eagle...

Is there a way to create a single layer PCB with Eagle. Cant find that it has this possabillity!?

If not....how do I create a GND plane on one side (upper) before or after autoroute??

Where to read to find out more about this?

Alll the best
Lyra
 
jwb

jwb

Member
Joined 2002
If you want only one layer, you can simply discard the bottom layer's CAM information. To create a ground plane, use the polygon tool to draw a closed rectangle around the desired area. Name this rectangle GND. Whenever you use the 'ratsnest' command, the ground area will be recalculated.
 
Lyra

Lyra

Member
Joined 2003
Eagle....problems !?

Hi!

I am trying to make a layout with Eagle 4.11, regarding a PCM1794 (have tryed other's "allready in the library" too..) DAC with a 28 lead's SSOP package.
The thing is that I cant get the autorouter to route this item. It routes all the other items, an leave this one with a mess off green wires in the unrouted layer.

What am I doing wrong ?

Would really appreciate some help here folks ! :xeye:

Lyra
 
A

Aud_Mot

Member
Joined 2002
Petter is right. Avoid CircuitMaker!

Stay away from CircuitMaker. Protel claims to provide service. They have no service and have never answered any tech questions.

There is a user's group:

http://gtechno.com/bugs-n-fixes/

Everyone there will tell you they have never heard of any one getting any kind of support from CircuitMaker/Protel.

Protel is a bunch of crooks. That could be taken slander. Protel come and get me, please.

There is a promising product, AutotraxEDA

http://autotraxeda.com/

Not to be confused with the PCB part of the older version Protel product with the name of "Traxmaker"

Autotrax has strong support, but still seems to be a work in progress. The SPICE portion is not up to speed. Illija Kovacevic is the designer/engineer of the product and responds to tech support questions several times a day.

There is an Autotrax Yahoo group, very active.

For $95.00 Autotrax is worth looking into.

Aud_Mot
 
Lyra

Lyra

Member
Joined 2003
Re: Eagle....problems !?

Lyra said:
I am trying to make a layout with Eagle 4.11, regarding a PCM1794 (have tryed other's "allready in the library" too..) DAC with a 28 lead's SSOP package.
The thing is that I cant get the autorouter to route this item. It routes all the other items, an leave this one with a mess off green wires in the unrouted layer.
Click to expand...

I found that if I change the library component and told that is was a DIL28 package instead of SSOP28 the router works as it should.....

Think it must have something to do with the small footprint of the PCM1794, and some setup on how small the pad's could be allowed, but I don't know withc setting this is....

Anybody ??
Lyra
 
sam9

sam9

Member
Joined 2002
drachen-audio.com
I'm not sure there is any auto router that works well for audio amplifiers. If you absolutely must try it anyway, first hand route the key nets; Power, ground, feedback. - then try the autorouter. Maybe, just maybe it might do ok.

The most irritating problem with the autorouters I've tried is that they give up after a certain number of itterations leaving one or more tracks un-routed, even on two layer boards. At that point you are usually "boxed in" in such a way that there is no way route the remaining tracks except by a jumper which is normally kind of dumb with a two layer PCB.
 
jackinnj

jackinnj

Member
Joined 2002
tech-diy.com
sam9 said:
I'm not sure there is any auto router that works well for audio amplifiers. If you absolutely must try it anyway, first hand route the key nets; Power, ground, feedback. - then try the autorouter. Maybe, just maybe it might do ok.

The most irritating problem with the autorouters I've tried is that they give up after a certain number of itterations leaving one or more tracks un-routed, even on two layer boards. At that point you are usually "boxed in" in such a way that there is no way route the remaining tracks except by a jumper which is normally kind of dumb with a two layer PCB.
Click to expand...

isn't that why they make "zero-ohm" resistors?

btw, I use the auto-router in audio stuff to give me a good idea of who's doing what to whom, then "rip up and retry" -- and then do it by hand. experience is the best educator,

jack
 
cocolino

cocolino

Member
Joined 2002
autorouter

Originally posted by sam9
I'm not sure there is any auto router that works well for audio amplifiers.
Click to expand...

I think You don`t need one.

When You place the components wrong an autorouter routes nonsense.

The hardest work is to figure where to place the components right that at the end everything will go together in the most reasonable manner - I believe no autorouter can do this for You -this You must do by Yourself.

Once You`re so far that You already know what is the best component arrangement (usually only after much trial and error) the biggest part is done and after this, the rest (routing traces) then just leads to itself and hence an autorouter is completely superfluous IMO.
 
sam9

sam9

Member
Joined 2002
drachen-audio.com
Which is basicly what I do since once you have the critical traces in place, the remaining ones tend to work themselves out. And besides you are likely to spend more time fixing what the auto router does than doing yourself.

Auto placement is even worse. I'm sure there are non-ausio circuits that the auto features do just fine at. Toasters, dorrbells, etc.
 
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