I think that is the figure Gedlee suggests for his speakers in the home.130dB at home ?
You must be kidding ...right ?
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I think there's a lack of self-confidence on the part of some, in choosing what will suit their own needs and instead people look to somebody else to tell them. My goal is not to have the orchestra in my living room so I don't need 130dB or more for listening at home, I don't need 20Hz response, I don't need 20kHz response, I don't need THX for my home theatre etc. etc. There's not right or wrong answer and I believe it does more harm than good to insist that new people to this hobby should be seeking to achieve 'X' or 'Y'.
For example, I've built a number of amplifiers, up to $150W. I've built a number of speakers too. I enjoy all of them. This week the most used system in my house is a single (mono) 15" full range driver in an open back box, and a low power 6AS7 SET amplifier.
For example, I've built a number of amplifiers, up to $150W. I've built a number of speakers too. I enjoy all of them. This week the most used system in my house is a single (mono) 15" full range driver in an open back box, and a low power 6AS7 SET amplifier.
130dB at home ?
You must be kidding ...right ?
May not be as loud as you're thinking. A system with a peak calculated SPL (1/2 space sensitivity plus dB above 1 watt) of 130dB will be closer to 115 in practice. And that's when you'll actually hear distortion with light clipping.
Before this can be answered you need to define what speaker will the amp be used with. Or if you are biamping what driver will you be using and how loud do you want your music?
Suppose you are just driving a 107 db/w horn and are only going to want to listen in the
80 to 90 db range in an average room the 4W otl amp from Trancendental Sound or the 10W SIT-2 amp from First Watt should be all you ever need. But hook one of these fine amps up to a pair of 80db/w speakers in a verry large room and you will probably wish you had bought that 300W amp.
Suppose you are just driving a 107 db/w horn and are only going to want to listen in the
80 to 90 db range in an average room the 4W otl amp from Trancendental Sound or the 10W SIT-2 amp from First Watt should be all you ever need. But hook one of these fine amps up to a pair of 80db/w speakers in a verry large room and you will probably wish you had bought that 300W amp.
It all depends on your listening. I enjoy cranking the volume up occasionally, the 40W showed its limitations when pushed. The 100W is perfectly sdequate but the 180W Quad has more headroom and can be pushed harder.
At these volume settings you need to live in the middle of a field with no attached neighbours.
Luckily I've got a detached bungalow.
At these volume settings you need to live in the middle of a field with no attached neighbours.
Luckily I've got a detached bungalow.
I think it's more "if yours is big, then mine is gonna be BIGGER". Then reality/WAF/space/budget/neighbors tend to tame things down. Once the PA system and the home music system became separate entities the latter stopped growing. Still have to have 20 Hz resposne, but 87dB/W @ 400 wpc was enough and will be forever. Still building monster equipment, but it no longer lives in the house and is used where 110dB at the listening position is appropriate... and 20Hz is not needed.
One of the realities of building amplifiers is that they are not infinitely scaleable. It's relatively easy to maintain proper layout and build techniques for amps up to about 100 watts. With larger amps, and the bigger you go, the more dependent the results are on construction and manufacturing techiques. The circuit design itself becomes a smaller factor - and you never get the .0000005% THD that the simulator predicts because the half-sine currents through 6" of #10 wire and a faston connector produce orders of mangitude more. Not so much a problem with everything on one PCB and truly negligible parasitics.
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ONLY Transients.
That's because we generally listen to average levels that are 10dB to 30dB below the peak transients.
That why most of my listening is done at less than 1W.
But I don't listen with a 1W amplifier.
I said a short while back
and that would be with amplifiers from 60W to 100W.
Hi Andy,
Appreciate your suggestions. Although I had occations to listen to a church organ, I most times listen to the recordings.
The music I like to listen is jazz, classics, and most music that have the universal appeal. But you know that some music, such as the 1812 overture, cannot be reproduced easily with usual equipment.
The minimum requirements for a system's SPL for monitoring purposes is 110db. To make a system output sound at 110db with high fidelity.
Jazz
Hi Andy,
It is a luxury today to have a speaker system with sensitivity higher than 100db. More realistically, I will use some speakers at around 90db.But I think capability of reproduce 110db SPL at low distortion is a minimum requirement for serious listenings.
Jazz
Bigun,
I do care about being able to accurately reproduce the transients. That is an important character to distinguish good system from the junks.
Jazz
Hi moschfet,
Where are your "scientifically proven" sources?
I think that kind of amps should fit a larger orchestra house, but not an usual living room. Neverthless, yours is right if you think music reproduced at rooms smaller than where it is recorded is not real.I at least think we should take the listening environment into consideration when chosing our systems.
Jazz
about 3 meters
My living room is about 30 sq meters, 2.8 meters height.
But I think the answer to the opening question should fit many but just for me.
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FOr 110db with 90db 8 ohm speakers your talking 100watts which would be an amplifier with +- 40V DC power supply rails. If you want 3db headroom then your gonna want 200watts or about +-60V DC power supply rails.
A Kenwood KA601 integrated has +- 50V rails a Phase Linear 400 has +- 75V rails.
I have 15" threeways with AE TD15S woofers powered by Ashly FTX2001 and two pair of IB15s powered by a Crest CA12. I use a scope to measue output power and with the Ashly peaking just above the +- 40V range that system feels like the SPL at about the 15th row at a
Trans-Siberian Orchestra concert. Close enough to get a good chest punch.
Most of the time I don't use more than a watt or two per channel and that's room filling loudness.
A Kenwood KA601 integrated has +- 50V rails a Phase Linear 400 has +- 75V rails.
I have 15" threeways with AE TD15S woofers powered by Ashly FTX2001 and two pair of IB15s powered by a Crest CA12. I use a scope to measue output power and with the Ashly peaking just above the +- 40V range that system feels like the SPL at about the 15th row at a
Trans-Siberian Orchestra concert. Close enough to get a good chest punch.
Most of the time I don't use more than a watt or two per channel and that's room filling loudness.
+-50Vdc for ~110W from a ClassAB BJT EF output stage.
An SF mosFET output stage will need about 4 or 5 v more on the supply.
CFP mosFET can manage similar power with supply rails similar to BJT.
I should have caveated amp design. Some amps can swing the rails others not so much. Plus sag too.
Anyway..if a fellow wants undistorted 110db spl with headroom they need to consider amp design and power supply rigidity and the actual voltage swing capabilities of an amp for the job. a quality +-60v should do well.
Anyway..if a fellow wants undistorted 110db spl with headroom they need to consider amp design and power supply rigidity and the actual voltage swing capabilities of an amp for the job. a quality +-60v should do well.
For domestic listening resolution is the most important parameter.
Listening at 90-95 dB at focal spot should bring ultra high resolutive sound for the whole frequency spectrum. Power rate is not important question here, people rise the volume knob to expect to hear more details from music but instead of that they just get more distortions and no more info. Don't get me wrong resolution is not correlated with distortions, resolution means not to lose any info from the source signal and that has nothing in common with distortions. Greatly distorted lamp amps have enormous resolution and that is the only thing that counts in musical reproduction.
I can get ultra super details informations at 1-5 Wrms, no need for more power to hear anything more from music tissue.
Listening at 90-95 dB at focal spot should bring ultra high resolutive sound for the whole frequency spectrum. Power rate is not important question here, people rise the volume knob to expect to hear more details from music but instead of that they just get more distortions and no more info. Don't get me wrong resolution is not correlated with distortions, resolution means not to lose any info from the source signal and that has nothing in common with distortions. Greatly distorted lamp amps have enormous resolution and that is the only thing that counts in musical reproduction.
I can get ultra super details informations at 1-5 Wrms, no need for more power to hear anything more from music tissue.
The extras are not required. That is a "crutch" like the fairchild stealth diode. These performance is less bad than doing it wrong with ordinary parts; however, the performance isn't as good as doing it right with ordinary parts (such as labor for custom tuned filters). The audiophile transformer and the Stealth diodes are merely a great deal easier, and could be really very useful in cases where the builder does not have a scope.
P.S.
I'm afraid that this thread's question of wattage couldn't be answered accurately in wattage, but maybe utilization is closer to an answer. Otherwise 42 for a normal house or three times that for a great room house, would be my guess.
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