I think it is mainly because Scanspeak isn’t widely know for its widerange units, they sure aren’t specialists of the niche, that people tend to overlook them. While for sure they know a thing or two about good driver design!
I would feel quite comfortable building the FAST design for the 8424 I linked above.
I would feel quite comfortable building the FAST design for the 8424 I linked above.
This particular 10F is a very smooth sounding driver but lacks both at the top & bottom — the reason it is called a midrange. Its price is quite high when one considers 3: drivers. For what it costs you could have EnABLed FF85wKeN or Alpair 5.2eN which overall outperform the Scan… even the stock drivers give it a run. This 10F does go into a very cute small box.
I haven’t heard it yet but the less expensive 8414 is called a Full Range and looks much more like one.
dave
Why do people buy Ferrari and Lamborghini to drive to work on roads with speed limits of 55 m/h ~ 88 km/h?
Why do people buy Hummer to go to their countryside house, on a road that is all paved?
So, why are you surprised when people buy Kharma Enigma Veyron EV2 for light background music at home?
We are blessed with many good options. It really comes down to your application, your preferences, and your budget. There is no "best" but there are better choices for specific applications. I've heard some incredible speakers but they needed a huge room to sound their best, thinking of the Granada with the Feastrex. Really was impressive but it needed a palace of a room and was hooked up to $100,000 of amps and source equipment. Would it sound as impressive in a smaller room? I doubt it. What is "best for you" might start with the room, your use, and build from that idea forward. I had tremendous satisfaction from the Audio Nirvana 12 Super Cast in a open baffle "boffle" like set up and crossed over at 70Hz to a pair of subwoofers. Was it the "best"? No way. It showed plenty of flaws when pushed too hard. Was it "magical" within its operating range? Every golden eared friend who heard it said so and still recalls the magic. Likewise when I heard someones Frugel-Horn with the Alpair 7.3. It was like chocolate cake and ice cream, I just wanted more and more. Be grateful for all the beautiful choices and enjoy the ride.
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Joined 2006
Over the years I have heard a variety of full range speakers, vintage and modern, including Feastrix (alnico and field coils) in Teramoto boxes (or not) at my friend's shop (shop not big, and he is a feastrix distributor here), Alpairs at Mark Felon's office/shop, and some others that I have either auditioned or owned (mainly vintage ones):
Saba & Telefunken (ovals), Philips 9710M, Goodmans Axiom 80, Axiom 201, Coral Flat 5 II, Supravox FC (Rullit), WE755A, Altec 755A, Altec755C, Sony holey basket, Diatone P610, Sachsenwerk FC, TC9, Dynavox, etc.
In my limited experience, I simply place them into two categories: hi fidelity and musical. (for full rangers note my preference of music: not overly dynamic or with deep bass, and I like vocals)
Differences?
Those in the hi fidelity category, at the end of a playback I would say, "great and sensational, next!". But for the musical ones, "...wow...(silent while holding my breath)...and then still mesmerising over it".
Most of the modern full rangers fall into the first category...
And recently I tried out the TC9 and Dynavox ly302f on a mid sized OB, see photo. And, Dynavox has the upperhand in most areas (and It goes higher and deeper too). No wonder its ranked highest among a list of drivers. See Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
(Both under the first category.)
As for the musical ones, actually, not many from the list above (again based on my limited experience), namely WE755A, Altec 755A and 755C, Axiom 80, and Sony holey basket, etc..
Sony holey basket you say?
Yes, and there is a pair for usd59 on ebay now. Others are unfortunately quite expensive... Tip: Altec 755C is like 75% of Altec 755A (with thicker and more mature vocals sounding), one of best buys. And Sony even younger sounding, btw, dont put Sony in a sealed box, it will lose the magic and the wide 3D imaging etc..best is on an OB.
Saba & Telefunken (ovals), Philips 9710M, Goodmans Axiom 80, Axiom 201, Coral Flat 5 II, Supravox FC (Rullit), WE755A, Altec 755A, Altec755C, Sony holey basket, Diatone P610, Sachsenwerk FC, TC9, Dynavox, etc.
In my limited experience, I simply place them into two categories: hi fidelity and musical. (for full rangers note my preference of music: not overly dynamic or with deep bass, and I like vocals)
Differences?
Those in the hi fidelity category, at the end of a playback I would say, "great and sensational, next!". But for the musical ones, "...wow...(silent while holding my breath)...and then still mesmerising over it".
Most of the modern full rangers fall into the first category...
And recently I tried out the TC9 and Dynavox ly302f on a mid sized OB, see photo. And, Dynavox has the upperhand in most areas (and It goes higher and deeper too). No wonder its ranked highest among a list of drivers. See Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
(Both under the first category.)
As for the musical ones, actually, not many from the list above (again based on my limited experience), namely WE755A, Altec 755A and 755C, Axiom 80, and Sony holey basket, etc..
Sony holey basket you say?
Yes, and there is a pair for usd59 on ebay now. Others are unfortunately quite expensive... Tip: Altec 755C is like 75% of Altec 755A (with thicker and more mature vocals sounding), one of best buys. And Sony even younger sounding, btw, dont put Sony in a sealed box, it will lose the magic and the wide 3D imaging etc..best is on an OB.
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Hah! That last picture reminds me of this post from fotios, during a discussion of motorized potentiometers/remote controlled preamps. He had a nice reply to AndrewT's post.
Remotely Controlled Motorized Volume Pot.This is a wonderful idea! You can sit in your arm chair keeping hug your belovedpreamplifier!
I began reading this thread from the beginning as if it was new until realizing it started in 2013. Fast forward to the end and I wish I purchased the JX92 and F200A when they were much less expensive - and available.
Over time, somehow, swapping drivers and listening over the years has allowed me to enjoy music on nearly any good quality full range driver. Differences aside, they allow the music to come thru. I much prefer mine with bass support... and I much prefer open baffle.
Over time, somehow, swapping drivers and listening over the years has allowed me to enjoy music on nearly any good quality full range driver. Differences aside, they allow the music to come thru. I much prefer mine with bass support... and I much prefer open baffle.
Thank you for insightful information.
CFT, nice pictures. I own SABA and the other old field coil FR, also I have heard some of the vintage units in your list. I agree with you 100% about the musicality (charm) of those vintage speakers while they are rather narrow range speakers that focus on midrange. I really like them.
I wish to hear more opinions about wide range contemporary FR, if someone has had a chance to compare low cost FR (e.g. FF85, 10F) vs much more expensive Voxativ, Lowther or Sears Exotic. Voxativ claims their driver is surprisingly flat (Voxativ FULL-RANGE DRIVERS), but it is 100x more expensive than Fostex FF85. Must be huge difference!
PS: I have heard Lowther in BLH at an audio show in NYC. I was very impressed, but I was not sure about the versatility. They were only playing what they wanted to play with it, no request allowed...
CFT, nice pictures. I own SABA and the other old field coil FR, also I have heard some of the vintage units in your list. I agree with you 100% about the musicality (charm) of those vintage speakers while they are rather narrow range speakers that focus on midrange. I really like them.
I wish to hear more opinions about wide range contemporary FR, if someone has had a chance to compare low cost FR (e.g. FF85, 10F) vs much more expensive Voxativ, Lowther or Sears Exotic. Voxativ claims their driver is surprisingly flat (Voxativ FULL-RANGE DRIVERS), but it is 100x more expensive than Fostex FF85. Must be huge difference!
PS: I have heard Lowther in BLH at an audio show in NYC. I was very impressed, but I was not sure about the versatility. They were only playing what they wanted to play with it, no request allowed...
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...vs much more expensive Voxativ, Lowther or Sears Exotic.
I too am very interested in learning more about the Sears Exotic (just kidding).
Personally, I have been disappointed by expensive drivers from time to time and would not count on them sounding better than something less expensive because often they have very audible characteristics (too bright or even too detailed - if that's possible). Having said that, the Fostex Sigma I have does sound very good... but so do the much less expensive Dayton, Vifa, TB and Fostex drivers I love to listen to.
I too am very interested in learning more about the Sears Exotic (just kidding).
Personally, I have been disappointed by expensive drivers from time to time and would not count on them sounding better than something less expensive because often they have very audible characteristics (too bright or even too detailed - if that's possible). Having said that, the Fostex Sigma I have does sound very good... but so do the much less expensive Dayton, Vifa, TB and Fostex drivers I love to listen to.
The person who got me interested in Audio stuff took me down to a hotel near Heathrow Airport and we wandered around listening to all sorts of stuff. I'd got a headache. Then we came across the Lowther room, horns but not that big.
The bloke said. 'Choose a record' I did, something classical then he said, 'Would you like a cup of tea' we both accepted.
We sat down drank our tea and listened and my headache went. I said to Jack my goodness these are wonderful. Jack bought a couple of PM6 units and made his own horns and I went and listened to them every time we bought new recordings.
That was about 50 years ago. I made a few speakers once we'd retired. Then I made a pair of FH3's about 7 years ago with CHP70's and that easy sound was back in my little listening room.
I agree with Mr CFT's opinion.
Cheers
The bloke said. 'Choose a record' I did, something classical then he said, 'Would you like a cup of tea' we both accepted.
We sat down drank our tea and listened and my headache went. I said to Jack my goodness these are wonderful. Jack bought a couple of PM6 units and made his own horns and I went and listened to them every time we bought new recordings.
That was about 50 years ago. I made a few speakers once we'd retired. Then I made a pair of FH3's about 7 years ago with CHP70's and that easy sound was back in my little listening room.
I agree with Mr CFT's opinion.
Cheers
>>> And recently I tried out the TC9 and Dynavox ly302f on a mid sized OB, see photo. And, Dynavox has the upperhand in most areas (and It goes higher and deeper too). No wonder its ranked highest among a list of drivers. See Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
(Both under the first category.)
Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
Thanks for posting the link CFT! Very interesting to see the plots and read the comments.
(Both under the first category.)
Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
Thanks for posting the link CFT! Very interesting to see the plots and read the comments.
Dunno, ask Dave
Love my Eikonas BTW, just felt like the right time to say that, I haven't heard any of the others mentioned though, maybe that's a good thing (that I don't know what I'm talking about.....)That is what I wanted to ask. If those very expensive drivers are as linear as much less expensive unit, there should not be much difference, I guessed. I was guessing it must be some special 'attractive" character is added to it, but what is it. Adding DIY Japanese antique hand made paper wheezer to those cheap flat response speaker is not completely meaningless, maybe...
When I was listening to Lowther, I felt wheezer cone might add a nice transient emphasis (modulation?) probably due to its forward location. I have never heard that kind of transient other than Lowther.
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