I am told that the best stereo image can be had from coencentric drivers in a full-range combo.
Obviously bass response is less important than the high end clarity.
I presume the right cab properly tuned will flatten and lower bass appropriately.
For near-field listening I am thinking about 4-10 feet distance to ear and same distance apart.
What recommend ye?
Price bracket hoping for drivers under $100 ea
Obviously bass response is less important than the high end clarity.
I presume the right cab properly tuned will flatten and lower bass appropriately.
For near-field listening I am thinking about 4-10 feet distance to ear and same distance apart.
What recommend ye?
Price bracket hoping for drivers under $100 ea
Hi,
Concentric is really multiway and size a can of worms, smaller tends
to be hifi, and bigger tends to be higher efficiency PA type drivers.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_USB Mk-II_copy.pdf
For nearfield they really should go as loud as anyone sensibly needs.
FWIW my XP coned 2-ways really do have an unusually good mid sonic signature.
rgds, sreten.
Concentric is really multiway and size a can of worms, smaller tends
to be hifi, and bigger tends to be higher efficiency PA type drivers.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_USB Mk-II_copy.pdf
For nearfield they really should go as loud as anyone sensibly needs.
FWIW my XP coned 2-ways really do have an unusually good mid sonic signature.
rgds, sreten.
"told" by which source? - such a categorical generalization is gonna be false for someone - and no matter what the application or budget, there is no "best" - period
There's certainly a place for multi-way /or concentric drivers, but for 4-10ft nearfield use, I'd be far more inclined to consider smaller FR drivers (e.g. 4-6"). There are numerous candidates among the "usual suspects", and it's no secret that many of the members / frequent posters here have their personal favorites, or that those can change over time.
There's certainly a place for multi-way /or concentric drivers, but for 4-10ft nearfield use, I'd be far more inclined to consider smaller FR drivers (e.g. 4-6"). There are numerous candidates among the "usual suspects", and it's no secret that many of the members / frequent posters here have their personal favorites, or that those can change over time.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I've heard that it's desirable to have the sound appear to come from a point source. And for near field listening this means keeping the sound sources fairly close together. By implication, it would imply that concentric drivers should perform well but I believe from what I have read that there are many other, potentially more important, variables that affect stereo imaging which deserve attention if good stereo imaging is your priority.
Some people may value high end clarity over bass, other people may have the opposite priority. It's good if you know what your preference is. As an fyi, my preference is for great mids, the high's are less important for me so long as they are not fatiguing, the bass less important providing it's sufficient to give foundation to the music and is clean enough. I have the perception that my preferences are well served by a lot of the DIY speakers talked about on this forum.
There are many tradeoffs to consider. If you maximize the bass extension you may also make other things worse, such as group delay, distortion, flatness of freq. response etc.
I would suggest looking at full-range options (as mentioned by Chris) and also look at a simple two driver two-way for the listening distance you specified (e.g. look at Zaph's websitehttp://www.zaphaudio.com/)
Just to narrow down my interests further,
I'm looking for a conencentric full-range driver that can
perform as well, or out-perform these:
Yamaha NS10 studio industry standard near-fields.
I would like to believe that the latest speaker engineering can top this for clarity,
and even improve it, by increasing the definition of the stereo imaging via coencentric full-range point-sourcing.
I would also like to believe that the raw driver at least will be far below the $400-800 that these cost.
I'm looking for a conencentric full-range driver that can
perform as well, or out-perform these:
Yamaha NS10 studio industry standard near-fields.
I would like to believe that the latest speaker engineering can top this for clarity,
and even improve it, by increasing the definition of the stereo imaging via coencentric full-range point-sourcing.
I would also like to believe that the raw driver at least will be far below the $400-800 that these cost.
Last edited:
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
hi. If you want to better the yamaha, i honestly think you can do it with a good 2way or fullrange driver of 5 or 6 inch diameter. The yamahas ive heard including those, arent all that special, or at least limited. They do what they intend to, but i haue to be honest and say i didnt think they were all their rep would have you believe. There are many amateur and some less amateur DIY designs in this forum and elsewhere which really are well thought out. In my opinion, most coax drivers arent much good, a lot of compromises in their concept. True concentrics, where the tweeter moves with the bass cone, ie as part of the cone, may be a different animal. My next plan for a 2way is going to use a 5 or 6 inch woofer with a 3inch fullrange, with the aim of a low crossover point and hopefully a good polar transition between drivers. This has yet to be done however, but many good fullrange and 2way designs are around. We should really make a 'DIY sites to check out' sticky.
Those NS10 are reputed to have screaming mids/agressive highs so maybe they are not hard to beat
Overall +5dB in the mid/high range and big bump at 1.5Khz
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Overall +5dB in the mid/high range and big bump at 1.5Khz
Last edited:
For the purposes of this forum, a concentric driver can never be a full-range, it is a multi-way
Industry standard for a POC (and that is exactly what they are used for).
dave
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Those NS10 are reputed to have screaming mids/agressive highs so maybe they are not hard to beat
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Overall +5dB in the mid/high range and big bump at 1.5Khz
interesting chart.
Do you think that is from the crossover/phase, the woofer, or the tweeter?
I'm not liking the look of the two dips at 3k and 4k either.
Is there a flatter high-SPL tweeter that can do better than this?
Maybe I should just build a two-way with different components and a better xover...?
re the "world renown" NS10 & variants:
The Yamaha NS10 Story
There's no rule that a "studio monitor" needs to be as relaxingly musical as some of us here might want to live with - and in the case of the NS10, its low price and predictable sound are probably high on the list of its attributes.
I'd imagine any mixing engineer worth their salt could not doubt soon learn to work around (listen through) any small monitor's idiosyncrasies - it's just a tool that they use in the craft of manipulating the music to achieve a particular goal - plus of course they'll certainly have more sophisticated and elaborate studio correction tools than the average home user.
Further is the realization that the overwhelming majority of listeners' playback equipment won't equal the performance of even the cheapest uncorrected monitor on their bench. Which of course could go a long way to support the theory that when material is EQ'd/mixed & mastered down to the anticipated LCD of playback gear ( say, a Boze-wav radio/ iPod ear-buds at 100dB), the end results will be ......
or am I just being cynical?
edit: but I never did really address the query re specific recommendations - Alpair 10.2 in a small vented or larger floorstander if you have space would make a pretty good all-round near field monitor - enough "BSC" built into the FR and certainly smooth and extended throughout the mid to HF range - and forget your worries about XO and tweeter integration
The Yamaha NS10 Story
There's no rule that a "studio monitor" needs to be as relaxingly musical as some of us here might want to live with - and in the case of the NS10, its low price and predictable sound are probably high on the list of its attributes.
I'd imagine any mixing engineer worth their salt could not doubt soon learn to work around (listen through) any small monitor's idiosyncrasies - it's just a tool that they use in the craft of manipulating the music to achieve a particular goal - plus of course they'll certainly have more sophisticated and elaborate studio correction tools than the average home user.
Further is the realization that the overwhelming majority of listeners' playback equipment won't equal the performance of even the cheapest uncorrected monitor on their bench. Which of course could go a long way to support the theory that when material is EQ'd/mixed & mastered down to the anticipated LCD of playback gear ( say, a Boze-wav radio/ iPod ear-buds at 100dB), the end results will be ......
or am I just being cynical?
edit: but I never did really address the query re specific recommendations - Alpair 10.2 in a small vented or larger floorstander if you have space would make a pretty good all-round near field monitor - enough "BSC" built into the FR and certainly smooth and extended throughout the mid to HF range - and forget your worries about XO and tweeter integration
Last edited:
I'm not sure about what makes this bump... I hesitate between a cone breakup from the woofer, or a bad crossover. For you yes I think a 2 way is the best solution, since it give you a lot of choices for the woofer/tweeter combination
I think you won't notice any difference bewteen a "classic" two way and the coaxial version, the ear is not very sensitive to vertical positionning. However, try to keep the woofer/tweeter close together, and keep in mind that you want to have the tweeter at ear level (except if you have very low directivity tweeters
)
Last edited:
Regarding coaxials, I beg to differ that they can't be good at a reasonable price. My main speakers use the Beyma 8BX coaxial speaker with a well thought out filter (a German audio engineer who sells a box based on the Beyma made several iterations and finetunings to get it just right, and he was kind enough to share the design with me), and I do think they are quite capable while not too expensive.
Regarding the NS10, yes there is "clarity" because it is such a fatigueing and exagerrated midrange. I never understood people who want to work on them for hours as their main speakers. For my compute room, I bought affordable active 6" KRKs which are both reasonably detailed and non-fatigueing. For those with deeper pockets, I recommend to check out ADAM, which is on a different level of accuracy. Incredible products in fact. True clarity without the fatigue. Better than Genelec too, in my opinion.
Back to affordable near field DIY, for max $100 per speaker, unless you have a really good 2 way design on hand (with a carefully optimised filter), then I agree with a number of posters that a good full range unit is a sensible approach. I suggest to check out the Fostex FF125WK which in a nearfield monitor sized box will have ok bass, enough loudness, and enough detail. If you use them on the computer, you can possibly experiment with the equaliser of your music software (or an external hardware eq) to make them as flat as possible - the frequency curve of the speaker rises, it sounds great for music listening, but for accurate monitor use you may want to adjust.
Regarding the NS10, yes there is "clarity" because it is such a fatigueing and exagerrated midrange. I never understood people who want to work on them for hours as their main speakers. For my compute room, I bought affordable active 6" KRKs which are both reasonably detailed and non-fatigueing. For those with deeper pockets, I recommend to check out ADAM, which is on a different level of accuracy. Incredible products in fact. True clarity without the fatigue. Better than Genelec too, in my opinion.
Back to affordable near field DIY, for max $100 per speaker, unless you have a really good 2 way design on hand (with a carefully optimised filter), then I agree with a number of posters that a good full range unit is a sensible approach. I suggest to check out the Fostex FF125WK which in a nearfield monitor sized box will have ok bass, enough loudness, and enough detail. If you use them on the computer, you can possibly experiment with the equaliser of your music software (or an external hardware eq) to make them as flat as possible - the frequency curve of the speaker rises, it sounds great for music listening, but for accurate monitor use you may want to adjust.
And a third!i have to say the only studio ive used that had yamaha NS10 monitors was back in college studying sound engineering. No Pro studio ive been in, used them.Yes, but you're not alone.
jeff
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.