kelticwizard said:Anytime, Art.
By the way, Eminence has a distributor in Brazil, so you might be able to pick up the Lab 12 in your own country.
This page is the Brazil distributor. You can Email him to see if he has any dealers near you, (distributor is the man who supplies the dealers).
http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/support/inquiry/sabrazil.htm
Thank u by the way, but that won't be usefull for me right now. I've already decided that I'm going to get the driver in the US.. But I'll tell some folks that want to buy it!.
@ kelticwizard: Thanks for the info! It is always fun simulating two different drivers to find out witch will be best and I’m goin to do that for sure! I always believe the could be some better, even when it is not so famous as the other item. As a matter of fact… I love it when the underdog bites the big one and it is much more original to use something like this than a already proofed concept. I’m curious…
@ArthurSoares: If u want to use the Tumult you need so much power to get the max out of it, the amplifier would be even expensive as the subwoofer. So if you don’t have a problem to double your budged… I haven’t simulated yet so I cant say what it can do…
I use LspCAD std.
@ArthurSoares: If u want to use the Tumult you need so much power to get the max out of it, the amplifier would be even expensive as the subwoofer. So if you don’t have a problem to double your budged… I haven’t simulated yet so I cant say what it can do…
I use LspCAD std.
This design should satisfy monster bass lovers.
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/everest.htm
..... 2 Tumults and four 18" passive radiators each capable of 3" peak to peak excursion .......
http://www.acoustic-visions.com/everest.htm
..... 2 Tumults and four 18" passive radiators each capable of 3" peak to peak excursion .......
edit: There is a Yellow line that was supposed to be a SHIVA 2
WOW
This must be the Earthquake itself. Can u say "sound pressure"? Beautiful .. Beautiful! but unfortunatelly too expensive for me 
.........
I Made out some plots with the drivers from Adire....
They are:
Adire Tumult 15" in Orange ------
Adire Tempest 15" in Yellow ------
Adire BRAHMA 15" in Purple/Pink ------
The Enclosures:
Tumult15:
Ported-
170Liters / 6ft^3
Fb: 19,3Hz
Tempest15:
Ported-
133Liters / 4,6 Ft^3
Fb: 17,44Hz
Brahma15:
Ported-
144Liters / 5 Ft^3 aprox.
Fb: 22,05 Hz
Power Supplied in Plot:
Tumult: 1600watts
Tempest: 300watts
Brahma15: 1200watts
here are the plots:
Overall SPL
I Got based in this to set the power.
Delay
IMHO I guess that the Brahma is still the most recommended sub to my needs.
thylantyr said:
WOW
This must be the Earthquake itself. Can u say "sound pressure"? Beautiful .. Beautiful! but unfortunatelly too expensive for me .........
I Made out some plots with the drivers from Adire....
They are:
Adire Tumult 15" in Orange ------
Adire Tempest 15" in Yellow ------
Adire BRAHMA 15" in Purple/Pink ------
The Enclosures:
Tumult15:
Ported-
170Liters / 6ft^3
Fb: 19,3Hz
Tempest15:
Ported-
133Liters / 4,6 Ft^3
Fb: 17,44Hz
Brahma15:
Ported-
144Liters / 5 Ft^3 aprox.
Fb: 22,05 Hz
Power Supplied in Plot:
Tumult: 1600watts
Tempest: 300watts
Brahma15: 1200watts
here are the plots:
Overall SPL
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I Got based in this to set the power.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Delay
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
IMHO I guess that the Brahma is still the most recommended sub to my needs.
Well, I simulated the Brahma now too and is seems it wouldn’t be a bad choice.
The results of your simulation and mine are a bit different (mine are better ), I can not say who’s software gets the best to the reality.
When I put it in a 80L box, 50% filled with damping and a typical box loss ( Ql ) of 7 it can be a good HT sub. Tuned at 25Hz with 2 pipes of 8cm and 45cm long it will have a -3dB point of 23,8Hz, you can put 300W RMS! on it before it will exceed it’s X-max but at 300W the -3dB point will be 36Hz because of the non linearity of the ports, but still not bad… the group delay will be 30ms at 20Hz but that will be 23ms already when you put 100W on it. The air speed @300W @ 20Hz will be 13m/s, nothing to wory about too much. Not bad at all… Making the box bigger wil not give you better.
Now It’s bet time [edit] In Holland (00.13) [edit]
The results of your simulation and mine are a bit different (mine are better
), I can not say who’s software gets the best to the reality. When I put it in a 80L box, 50% filled with damping and a typical box loss ( Ql ) of 7 it can be a good HT sub. Tuned at 25Hz with 2 pipes of 8cm and 45cm long it will have a -3dB point of 23,8Hz, you can put 300W RMS! on it before it will exceed it’s X-max but at 300W the -3dB point will be 36Hz because of the non linearity of the ports
, but still not bad… the group delay will be 30ms at 20Hz but that will be 23ms already when you put 100W on it. The air speed @300W @ 20Hz will be 13m/s, nothing to wory about too much. Not bad at all… Making the box bigger wil not give you better.Now It’s bet time
[edit] In Holland (00.13) [edit]What software u used and how could u reach Xmax with only 300watts?Eul said:Well, I simulated the Brahma now too and is seems it wouldn’t be a bad choice.
The results of your simulation and mine are a bit different (mine are better
When I put it in a 80L box, 50% filled with damping and a typical box loss ( Ql ) of 7 it can be a good HT sub. Tuned at 25Hz with 2 pipes of 8cm and 45cm long it will have a -3dB point of 23,8Hz, you can put 300W RMS! on it before it will exceed it’s X-max but at 300W the -3dB point will be 36Hz because of the non linearity of the ports
Now It’s bet time
Eul said:
Already modeled the Lab 12 and the Shiva Mark III. Here is the result, (go from post # 16 on):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=110628#post110628
Hard to tell apart!! The 12 inch Peerless looks bad, but actually it is designed for a smaller enclosure.
All three were in identical 60 L boxes tuned to 25 Hz. You can put the Shiva and Lab 12 in much bigger boxes, tuned lower, as well.
Go to www.quarter-wave.com
Then go to http://www.quarter-wave.com/Models/MathCad_Models.html
Downoad the MathCAD 8 demo which is linked there plus the worksheets Martin made.
Then you can simulate.
PS: When downloading the MathCAD demo, make sure you put it in the default folder. That folder is "Program Files\MathSoft". Do NOT create your own folder for it and then put it there!
Then go to http://www.quarter-wave.com/Models/MathCad_Models.html
Downoad the MathCAD 8 demo which is linked there plus the worksheets Martin made.
Then you can simulate.
PS: When downloading the MathCAD demo, make sure you put it in the default folder. That folder is "Program Files\MathSoft". Do NOT create your own folder for it and then put it there!
I used LspCAD std. to simulate the enclosures. The X-max depends on how the enclosure is build and tuned and most important witch frequency you want it to play. The 300W is @20Hz. That the max. power of the woofer is 1600W RMS doesn’t say it needs 1600W, the 1600W is only the max RMS capacity of the voice coil, if you would give it more it will burn. The true limit of most woofers is the X-max, that’s why I look to that instead of max RMS power. But don’t worry, I think that if you put 300W on it and give it a sweep you almost get blown out of the roomArthurSoares said:
Eul said:
I used LspCAD std. to simulate the enclosures. The X-max depends on how the enclosure is build and tuned and most important witch frequency you want it to play. The 300W is @20Hz. That the max. power of the woofer is 1600W RMS doesn’t say it needs 1600W, the 1600W is only the max RMS capacity of the voice coil, if you would give it more it will burn. The true limit of most woofers is the X-max, that’s why I look to that instead of max RMS power. But don’t worry, I think that if you put 300W on it and give it a sweep you almost get blown out of the room
okay. I Did know that, but what I was asking is that somehow our simulations were different. I mean, using that box u suggested: 80liters ported tuned at 26Hz, the excurssion with 300watts won't be even close to the X-max at least in WinISD Pro (using Ql 7).. The X-max for this driver is 27.3mm in one way!.. WinISD give us the value for full way.. so according to the BRAHMA's manual it says that if your enclosure simulations doesn't hit 50 to 55mm in it's excurssion its okay!.
With that enclosure you would only get X-max at the point of <14.36Hz .. that's in my simulation.. what went wrong?
Try this box that's is suggested by the BRAHMA's manual..
5ft^3 tuned at 20Hz.. I Found another configuration..
5.5 ft^3 tuned at 24Hz.. ? Which one is better?
thylantyr said:My understand of the product (which is not much since
I haven't really looked at it), is the Tumult was a woofer than came
after the Brahma to target the home theater market,
where the Brahma is for the car audio market.
What causes the Brahma to perform better than
a Tumult for HT ?
I dunno either
Maybe nothing went wrong? Apparently our simulation software calculates different things, who will say who is right and wrong? Personally I would believe LspCAD but I don’t have proof mine is right and yours is wrong.ArthurSoares said:
The X-max for this driver is 27.3mm in one way!.. WinISD give us the value for full way.. so according to the BRAHMA's manual it says that if your enclosure simulations doesn't hit 50 to 55mm in it's excurssion its okay!.
With that enclosure you would only get X-max at the point of <14.36Hz .. that's in my simulation.. what went wrong?
Ehhh... what's that in liters?
We’re looking to it because of the better price/performance ratio and… it performs well for a HT subthylantyr said:My understand of the product (which is not much since
I haven't really looked at it), is the Tumult was a woofer than came
after the Brahma to target the home theater market,
where the Brahma is for the car audio market.
What causes the Brahma to perform better than
a Tumult for HT ?
I still recommend the shiva, I personally don’t think you’ll need more than that and you still need a shitload of power for the Brahma what will be expensive too.
5 ft^3 == 141,60 Liters
5.5 ft^3 == 155,70 Liters
But now I recover to the manual! As you can see it recommends for home theater use a ported box of 5ft^3 (141,60Liters) tuned at 20hz.. According to Brahma's Owner Manual there is something about that power handling vs. enclosure vs. x-max. I'll quote it here
this one is good
What u say?
Check it out at: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaOwnersGuide.pdf
5.5 ft^3 == 155,70 Liters
But now I recover to the manual! As you can see it recommends for home theater use a ported box of 5ft^3 (141,60Liters) tuned at 20hz.. According to Brahma's Owner Manual there is something about that power handling vs. enclosure vs. x-max. I'll quote it here
this one is good
What u say?
Check it out at: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/BrahmaOwnersGuide.pdf
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