I didn't say that they won't work, only that they are not ideal and do not actually act as a horn in a small room. It is quite true that no "horn" acts much like a theoretical horn when it is shorter than about a 1/4 wavelength. Add to this that in a small room the wavelengths are much larger than the device and comparable to the room itself and what basically happens is that the horn turns into a simple port and you have a bandpass type system. This isn't necessarily bad, but its nothing like using a horn when it is larger than a wavelength.
The bottom line is that multiple subs spaced about the room is turning out to be universally accepted as the way to go. Horns don't make this easier and in fact thay make it a much bigger problem.
As to efficiency and distortion, the distortion is solved with multiple subs and this isn't a really big problem anyways. Efficiency might be a problem in a larger room (very large) but not a small one. I can't remember the last time that I worried about amplifier power in a small room. Yes, you should have independent control over each sub and this does dictate multiple amps, but amps are cheap.
If sound quality is the goal then multiple subs will work better in the modal region of a room than a horn will (assuming equal total volume occupied by the systems.) If you are putting huge horns outside of the room, well thats another discussion.
Efficiency is not an issue in my book because I only deal with small rooms and use big drivers that have efficiency to throw away. Nonlinear distortion is never a big issue, but when you use big drivers its completly a non-issue. Hence, once a waveguide/horn ceases to perform the critical function of controlling directivity, it ceases to have any attraction for me.
You and I prefer horns for very different reasons then. I like them for the visceral experience they can provide, not their directivity control. They sound most life-like to me and direct radiators simply sound dull, lifeless and well, like a loudspeaker. The ability to extract detail and convey real music and emotion is simply unparalled when it comes to horns.
I believe this is due to the increase in efficiency and the better coupling of the driver cone with the air load it is pushing against. Directivity control is important, although not as much as efficiency, IMO. Simply throwing more watts at the situation is the not a good solution, certainly not the one I would choose.
I believe this is due to the increase in efficiency and the better coupling of the driver cone with the air load it is pushing against. Directivity control is important, although not as much as efficiency, IMO. Simply throwing more watts at the situation is the not a good solution, certainly not the one I would choose.
Thats cool, I have not had the space for horns until recently. Its more about the measurements to me right now. They impressive me on how cheap drivers and low power can create clean output.
I do not think this is the thread to continue this discussion. Maybe a new thread in the right forum would be good if you want?
Some believes long bass horns can generate active sound field that help localize musical instruments (best audible from analogue recordings). Another (different) interesting arrangement is OB-horn.
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Reference:
SOUND INTENSITY AND ITS MEASUREMENT AND APPLICATIONS
Finn Jacobsen Acoustic Technology, Ørsted DTU Technical University of Denmark, Building 352 Ørsteds Plads, DK-2800 Lyngby Denmark fja@oersted.dtu.dk
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Reference:
SOUND INTENSITY AND ITS MEASUREMENT AND APPLICATIONS
Finn Jacobsen Acoustic Technology, Ørsted DTU Technical University of Denmark, Building 352 Ørsteds Plads, DK-2800 Lyngby Denmark fja@oersted.dtu.dk
at what high frequency does this Universe take over?
I usually see you use it with a JMLC-200 and now you are thinking of using a EJMLC-300.
The waveguide/horn Group Buy came in about 2 weeks ago. I've been busy boxing everything up, but thought I would post photos here. Let me say that these different sizes were packed really well and every space was filled with something. Very impressive.
The SEOS waveguide was designed last year by some pretty smart forum members. Even Zilch had his thoughts go into the design and he was really looking forward to trying out the 10" version. He liked both sizes, but thought the 10" was pretty neat. Zilch was actually going to be the one testing these before he passed away earlier this year.
The project started out as a way to replace the QSC waveguide used in many Econowave style speakers that you could no longer purchase. I promised to get it prototyped and produced if a design was agreed upon. I've never done that before but thought it might be interesting. A few forum members figured that if we were going to make a prototype from scratch, we might as well try to make something even better. As the process went on, it turned into a bigger group buy for other waveguides and horns spread over a few different forums.
Lots of photos.
I had already removed some packing material a few Iwata-300 horns from the top when this photo was taken.
Here's what the Iwata looked like, notice the tape on the front saying there were more horns inside!
I felt like a scientist removing something from an alien's belly as I cut open the tape.
They managed to get some big items on this pallet too. Here's a monster 38" diameter horn, with another "small" horn stuffed in it's mouth. And there's yet another one inside the mouth of the smaller horn! (I put a hammer there to give an idea on size)
Couldn't move those big boys until I took out all the small ones filling the other spaces. You can't see this in the photo, but there were even horns inside the shrink wrap on the larger ones as well.
The SEOS waveguide was designed last year by some pretty smart forum members. Even Zilch had his thoughts go into the design and he was really looking forward to trying out the 10" version. He liked both sizes, but thought the 10" was pretty neat. Zilch was actually going to be the one testing these before he passed away earlier this year.
The project started out as a way to replace the QSC waveguide used in many Econowave style speakers that you could no longer purchase. I promised to get it prototyped and produced if a design was agreed upon. I've never done that before but thought it might be interesting. A few forum members figured that if we were going to make a prototype from scratch, we might as well try to make something even better. As the process went on, it turned into a bigger group buy for other waveguides and horns spread over a few different forums.
Lots of photos.
I had already removed some packing material a few Iwata-300 horns from the top when this photo was taken.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here's what the Iwata looked like, notice the tape on the front saying there were more horns inside!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I felt like a scientist removing something from an alien's belly as I cut open the tape.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They managed to get some big items on this pallet too. Here's a monster 38" diameter horn, with another "small" horn stuffed in it's mouth. And there's yet another one inside the mouth of the smaller horn! (I put a hammer there to give an idea on size)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Couldn't move those big boys until I took out all the small ones filling the other spaces. You can't see this in the photo, but there were even horns inside the shrink wrap on the larger ones as well.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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And here's a pair of the infamous "Mummy" speakers that almost became a group buy at one point last year. Someone just wanted to get the empty cabinets. I gotta say, these things are heavier than you'd think and made super strong. I placed a dollar bill on the front to give you an idea of it's size. A 12" pro woofer goes on the bottom and the top is a OS-12 waveguide!
Check out how thick the mounting flange is. You can see the bracing and the rear ports too. I'm not going to unwrap these any more than this. Yes, there were smaller horns inside here too!
Photo of the massive JMLC-200. I'm not going to unwrap these any more either.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Check out how thick the mounting flange is. You can see the bracing and the rear ports too. I'm not going to unwrap these any more than this. Yes, there were smaller horns inside here too!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Photo of the massive JMLC-200. I'm not going to unwrap these any more either.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Now for the "smaller" stuff.
JMLC-200 in the background. Iwata-300 upper left. JMLC-400 upper right. 10" and 15" SEOS prototypes lower left. Elliptical JMLC-1000 in the middle. Regular JMLC-1000 lower middle. OS-12 lower right. I didn't unwrap the JMLC-350 which is larger than the 400 model you see in the photo. These are sitting on closed cell foam, don't worry!
Back view to see the Iwata and JMLC:
Some with color:
And finally the SEOS prototypes:
JMLC-200 in the background. Iwata-300 upper left. JMLC-400 upper right. 10" and 15" SEOS prototypes lower left. Elliptical JMLC-1000 in the middle. Regular JMLC-1000 lower middle. OS-12 lower right. I didn't unwrap the JMLC-350 which is larger than the 400 model you see in the photo. These are sitting on closed cell foam, don't worry!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Back view to see the Iwata and JMLC:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some with color:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And finally the SEOS prototypes:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
which shipper do you use? and what Class does the horn fall under? How much do a pair weight? I am estimating shipping cost to San Francisco CA 94122 (from Cincinnati, OH, I assumed)
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I'm not sure about the pallet info. The guy that bought the items set it all up. I'm just the helper!
But I did email him and ask how much the pallet cost to go from Cincinnati to California and get the other info. My zip code is 45239 if that helps.
I think I'd just say they're fiberglass parts. If you say audio, they might think electronics and charge more, I don't really know.
It's going to be over 50lbs for the pair. I can try to weigh one of the ones I have at the shop, but I think they're for a 4".
Many places will ship pallets based on weights to where the JMLC-200 will be at their minimum weight charge. But I'm sure they also have a minimum charge.