OK - I ordered my Orion documentation & the Test CD today. I guess I'll figure out my amp situation somehow.
I'm thinking of buying two XR25 amps for about $500, but I'm not sure that the amp's characteristics are full-range for all 6 channels.
sfdoddsy - I am assuming that you are using the 6 DVD inputs for the 6 channels of amplification, right? Are all the channels of the XR25 20 Hz => 20 kHz @ 100 W?
I'm thinking of buying two XR25 amps for about $500, but I'm not sure that the amp's characteristics are full-range for all 6 channels.
sfdoddsy - I am assuming that you are using the 6 DVD inputs for the 6 channels of amplification, right? Are all the channels of the XR25 20 Hz => 20 kHz @ 100 W?
You can only use 5 of the Panasonic's channels in your application. The rear-center amp doesn't have an input and the sub input is just a passthrough to the sub output. About the power, 100 watts is optimistic, no doubt chosen as a 'magic number' for marketing reaons. It has a high distortion spec at 100 watts so figure on 70 watts or so of good clean power.
Yep, for your purposes it is a 5 x 100 amp. There is more info on using the Panasonic and other digital amps at www.newformresearch.com.
Cheers
Steve
Cheers
Steve
Disabled Account
Joined 2003
Newform Research says:
"The XR45 is a typical low end 6 channel receiver with one important difference. It has the first commercial implementation of the Texas Instruments Equibit digital amplifier chipset. Its specifications are very poor but the sound belongs on the top shelf of high end amplifiers."
Hmmm ... It sounds kind of contradictory.
I saw how I would need to turn the subwoofer off and front speakers to "large" in order to get a full-range output on 5 channels.
Some questions:
1) Are these amps "stackable"? I would like to put one on top of the other if I could - or my Rotel amp on top of the two for space saving.
2) Does this amp "play nice" when driven hard? Will it shut down an over-driven channel, or distort heavily? Can all 5 channels be driven continuously at 100W indefinitely?
3) The specs I saw said that the XR25 recommended speaker load is 6 ohms minimum => 8 ohms maximum. Will the Orion be OK in this range?
4) I guess that now I would drive the front two Orions with the X25s - one X25 per Orion. The surrounds would be be run by the Rotel 6x60 amp, or I could just buy a third X25 for channel matching. Recommendations?
Thanks again for all the input, everybody!
"The XR45 is a typical low end 6 channel receiver with one important difference. It has the first commercial implementation of the Texas Instruments Equibit digital amplifier chipset. Its specifications are very poor but the sound belongs on the top shelf of high end amplifiers."
Hmmm ... It sounds kind of contradictory.
I saw how I would need to turn the subwoofer off and front speakers to "large" in order to get a full-range output on 5 channels.
Some questions:
1) Are these amps "stackable"? I would like to put one on top of the other if I could - or my Rotel amp on top of the two for space saving.
2) Does this amp "play nice" when driven hard? Will it shut down an over-driven channel, or distort heavily? Can all 5 channels be driven continuously at 100W indefinitely?
3) The specs I saw said that the XR25 recommended speaker load is 6 ohms minimum => 8 ohms maximum. Will the Orion be OK in this range?
4) I guess that now I would drive the front two Orions with the X25s - one X25 per Orion. The surrounds would be be run by the Rotel 6x60 amp, or I could just buy a third X25 for channel matching. Recommendations?
Thanks again for all the input, everybody!
If you really want to know everything about the Pannie receivers your wish has come true:
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=4991&highlight=xr45
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=9207&highlight=xr45
Best of luck reading through it
The reason for the Newform comment is that, as a digital amp, the Pannie measures differently to normal solid state amps, especially in distortion. Not worse like tube amps, just differently. The threads will explain why.
If you really wanted to you could run them flat out, but through Orions that would be insanely loud and likely to damage the drivers or your ears. The only areas Orions need a beefy amp is in the bass, and luckily this is the srea digital amps really shine. Unlike solid states amps, damping factor is not a problem with digitals.
As for the impedance, it depends how you wire the speakers. If you parallel the woofers (including the dual voice coils), then you will get a very low impedance, but if you wire them the way SL recommends then you will have no problems.
Steve
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=4991&highlight=xr45
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=9207&highlight=xr45
Best of luck reading through it
The reason for the Newform comment is that, as a digital amp, the Pannie measures differently to normal solid state amps, especially in distortion. Not worse like tube amps, just differently. The threads will explain why.
If you really wanted to you could run them flat out, but through Orions that would be insanely loud and likely to damage the drivers or your ears. The only areas Orions need a beefy amp is in the bass, and luckily this is the srea digital amps really shine. Unlike solid states amps, damping factor is not a problem with digitals.
As for the impedance, it depends how you wire the speakers. If you parallel the woofers (including the dual voice coils), then you will get a very low impedance, but if you wire them the way SL recommends then you will have no problems.
Steve
OK!
Everyone here has been very helpful - My system design plans have been significantly modified based upon your input.
So, I'm going to get committed now ...
I'll be purchasing 3 XR25s tonight, and a set of Orion drivers tomorrow from Madisound. If they won't give me the 10% discount price later for the surrounds, I may take the plunge and get the all drivers at once.
The Orion design specs have been ordered, and should arrive shortly. I'll put in my order for the crossover parts in the next day or two.
For wood choices, I don't know what I'm doing yet.
One thing I still need to figure out is how I'll power and encase the 5 Orion crossover boards in one enclosure (hopefully). Anyone have ideas?
Everyone here has been very helpful - My system design plans have been significantly modified based upon your input.
So, I'm going to get committed now ...
I'll be purchasing 3 XR25s tonight, and a set of Orion drivers tomorrow from Madisound. If they won't give me the 10% discount price later for the surrounds, I may take the plunge and get the all drivers at once.
The Orion design specs have been ordered, and should arrive shortly. I'll put in my order for the crossover parts in the next day or two.
For wood choices, I don't know what I'm doing yet.
One thing I still need to figure out is how I'll power and encase the 5 Orion crossover boards in one enclosure (hopefully). Anyone have ideas?
Hi All,
I've come a bit late to this thread, via linkwitzlabs and Steve Dodds' inspirational site (I too suck at woodwork but really want to build a dipole).
Did anyone manage to actually find panasonic XR receivers in Oz? I've had a bit of a look in Melbourne and Sydney and can't find any.
I could still order an SA-XR25 from the States, but with receivers you usually have problems with the radio frequency stepping and warranty etc.
I'd be happy to buy one 2nd-hand (might have to in fact because I'm about to buy components to make my own "Phoenix" (cheapo version with vifa drivers and Behringer CX2310 - sucks being a student sometimes).
Thanks for any tips on tracking down an XR25 or XR10,
//Adam F
I've come a bit late to this thread, via linkwitzlabs and Steve Dodds' inspirational site (I too suck at woodwork but really want to build a dipole
).Did anyone manage to actually find panasonic XR receivers in Oz? I've had a bit of a look in Melbourne and Sydney and can't find any.
I could still order an SA-XR25 from the States, but with receivers you usually have problems with the radio frequency stepping and warranty etc.
I'd be happy to buy one 2nd-hand (might have to in fact because I'm about to buy components to make my own "Phoenix" (cheapo version with vifa drivers and Behringer CX2310 - sucks being a student sometimes).
Thanks for any tips on tracking down an XR25 or XR10,
//Adam F
454Casull said:
sighs ... spoilt Americans and Canadians!
It may come as a suprise to you that us Aussies pay for things in Australian dollars!
And we have to add a lot of shipping. Even drivers that are available via local suppliers have had shipping added on, so no cheaper than us getting them shipped. At one time I looked into it and found that I typically had to x2.2 to get from USD to AUD with shipping included.
Yep Paul, it is a staff price on the (discontinued) JV80 kit, because I'm currently working at Jaycar. Jaycar now only sells re/sponse drivers which really are only good enough for car audio.
That means two Vifa 8" 4ohm woofers with no discernible model name (but apparently the same ones as used in
these monitors), two D26NC-15-06 tweeters, a worthless passive xover and some irrelevant instructions
Just by the by Pan and 454Casull, I'm sorry for the confusion but I was talking in oz dollars. So make that US$135 for what I'm buying vs US$375 for W22EX drivers purchased here in oz. As Paul said, shipping etc means hardly anything is worth buying from the US for us unfortunately, even though we are sorely tempted by the web prices.
ATM I'm looking for cheap amplification - only thing I can find here is JVC FX10 (like panasonic XR25) for US$380 - again over US$100 more than you have to pay, damn you Also TEAC won't sell me their A-L700P amp separately here, which is a pain.
Now I have another question, somewhat more on topic:
I believe the phoenix design calls for the 8" woofers to be connected in series, which should be fine for me since the ones I'm buying are 4ohm. However I've been advised that I would be better off tri-amping, making one woofer go a bit lower than the other (but overlapping, kinda like a sequential twin turbo setup).
This would of course require 6 channels of amplification and expensive 3ch stereo xover. Do you think I'd hear a real benefit over 4 channels and 2-way xover?
//Adam F
That means two Vifa 8" 4ohm woofers with no discernible model name (but apparently the same ones as used in
these monitors), two D26NC-15-06 tweeters, a worthless passive xover and some irrelevant instructions
Just by the by Pan and 454Casull, I'm sorry for the confusion but I was talking in oz dollars. So make that US$135 for what I'm buying vs US$375 for W22EX drivers purchased here in oz. As Paul said, shipping etc means hardly anything is worth buying from the US for us unfortunately, even though we are sorely tempted by the web prices.
ATM I'm looking for cheap amplification - only thing I can find here is JVC FX10 (like panasonic XR25) for US$380 - again over US$100 more than you have to pay, damn you
Also TEAC won't sell me their A-L700P amp separately here, which is a pain. Now I have another question, somewhat more on topic:
I believe the phoenix design calls for the 8" woofers to be connected in series, which should be fine for me since the ones I'm buying are 4ohm. However I've been advised that I would be better off tri-amping, making one woofer go a bit lower than the other (but overlapping, kinda like a sequential twin turbo setup
).This would of course require 6 channels of amplification and expensive 3ch stereo xover. Do you think I'd hear a real benefit over 4 channels and 2-way xover?
//Adam F
Adam,
You don't by any chance work at the Frankston Jaycar? If so we have probably met! :O
The drivers are the P21 polycone I believe. The crazy thing about that kit is that they put the midbass drivers so far from the tweeter. The point of that tweeter is that being so small they can be closely spaced. To put them so far apart is to totally give up the advantage of that tweeter! Clueless!
I built my speakers using the previous kit - the JV60, although I have since found the xo to be less than ideal. The tweeter was overly bright and needed padding and the crossover point was too high. With an LPad and TL alignment they are nice sounding speakers, although probably not quite as good as they could be.
On a tight budget you could consider approaching a dipole like John K's Nao, which uses a passive crossover for the tweeter. Then all you have to do is biamp, with a little active dipole compensation.
You don't by any chance work at the Frankston Jaycar? If so we have probably met! :O
The drivers are the P21 polycone I believe. The crazy thing about that kit is that they put the midbass drivers so far from the tweeter. The point of that tweeter is that being so small they can be closely spaced. To put them so far apart is to totally give up the advantage of that tweeter! Clueless!
I built my speakers using the previous kit - the JV60, although I have since found the xo to be less than ideal. The tweeter was overly bright and needed padding and the crossover point was too high. With an LPad and TL alignment they are nice sounding speakers, although probably not quite as good as they could be.
On a tight budget you could consider approaching a dipole like John K's Nao, which uses a passive crossover for the tweeter. Then all you have to do is biamp, with a little active dipole compensation.
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