Thought it would be nice to replace the input coupling caps on this Hafler DH-200 with something a little more dedicated to audio use than the original parts.
It uses 2x 10uF @ 25V electrolytic, radial, one per channel. Pretty simple.
Anyone have something they think is particularly suitable for this? Maybe a Cerafine / MUSE / Panasonic KZ type part? We don't typically use electros for coupling in tube land, so I don't I know what to apply, or have anything like this on-hand.
So what can you suggest, and what have you got?
Also looking for 2x 470uF @ 6.3 Non-polar - kind of an oddball part, but it uses them. Suggestions welcome..
It uses 2x 10uF @ 25V electrolytic, radial, one per channel. Pretty simple.
Anyone have something they think is particularly suitable for this? Maybe a Cerafine / MUSE / Panasonic KZ type part? We don't typically use electros for coupling in tube land, so I don't I know what to apply, or have anything like this on-hand.
So what can you suggest, and what have you got?
Also looking for 2x 470uF @ 6.3 Non-polar - kind of an oddball part, but it uses them. Suggestions welcome..
My suggestion:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Elna/RFS-25V100MF35/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22Vaq1AHMe%252bCM0xdC%252be0n2TM%3d
You can see them in my Aleph J and M2 clones, posted in this forum.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Elna/RFS-25V100MF35/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22Vaq1AHMe%252bCM0xdC%252be0n2TM%3d
You can see them in my Aleph J and M2 clones, posted in this forum.
Have to admit, that's hard to beat at ~$0.30 US.. I'll have to give that line a look. (ETA: "SILMIC series Silk fiber using audio purpose capacitor" - Lol, it's in Changlish!)
You say this is a decent audio cap, then? Like I said, I don't know squat about electrolytics for coupling use - to the point that I wouldn't even know which characteristics might be desirable.
But it might still be a while until I can put together another Mouser order. Do you (or anyone) have a couple you could drop in the mail? Should ship for a 1st class stamp, I'd think.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/151392-best-electrolytic-capacitors.html
Elna silmic.
Nelson likes them.
Need to say more ?
Elna silmic.
Nelson likes them.
Need to say more ?
Hi legendre,
My suggestion would be to parallel the (virtually any) electrolytic capacitor with a superb film capacitor. I personally use either a PP film + copper foil panasonic capacitor (not available today to my knowledge) or the Vishay MKP 1837 combined with a suitable electrolytic, if needed. My preferences here are Panasonic HFZ, Elna Starget or - possibly - Panasonic BP-P bipolar electrolytics. The latter is huge though. You may know this -
but if not I may mention that typically electrolytic capacitor distortion drops quite some when - generalizing here - the distance between the rated voltage and the bias voltage increases (same signal level). Thus, a 100 VDC rated electrolytic biased with e.g. 1 volt may have a lower distortion than if the electrolytic was rated at 16 VDC. Also, typically, bipolar electrolytics have lower distortion than the polarized electrolytics.
If you're interested here's a link to an extensive listening test on capacitors:
Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test )
Cheers,
Jesper
My suggestion would be to parallel the (virtually any) electrolytic capacitor with a superb film capacitor. I personally use either a PP film + copper foil panasonic capacitor (not available today to my knowledge) or the Vishay MKP 1837 combined with a suitable electrolytic, if needed. My preferences here are Panasonic HFZ, Elna Starget or - possibly - Panasonic BP-P bipolar electrolytics. The latter is huge though. You may know this -
but if not I may mention that typically electrolytic capacitor distortion drops quite some when - generalizing here - the distance between the rated voltage and the bias voltage increases (same signal level). Thus, a 100 VDC rated electrolytic biased with e.g. 1 volt may have a lower distortion than if the electrolytic was rated at 16 VDC. Also, typically, bipolar electrolytics have lower distortion than the polarized electrolytics.
If you're interested here's a link to an extensive listening test on capacitors:
Humble Homemade Hifi - Cap Test )
Cheers,
Jesper
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The most important characteristic is the capacitance value. Calculate what value you need to get the desired LF rolloff, then multiply by 10.legendre said:
Don't be tempted to add a 'bypass'. At best this will do nothing apart from waste some money and give you a nice glowing feeling inside. At worst it will create a parallel resonance and add an HF notch to the frequency response.
A metalised polypropylene capacitor, 4uf, or 4.7, will usually work best there by popular opinion.
I made a bracket to hold some oversized parts on mine. That position will reward you when a better part is used, if the rest of the system is up to speed.
My Dad uses (4) 1uf, K71-4 polystyrene on his Hafler, very detailed, and a bargain.
The Nichicon Muse bipolar, in 16v will work well for the feedback capacitors also, if that's where you were looking to put some of those.
I made a bracket to hold some oversized parts on mine. That position will reward you when a better part is used, if the rest of the system is up to speed.
My Dad uses (4) 1uf, K71-4 polystyrene on his Hafler, very detailed, and a bargain.
The Nichicon Muse bipolar, in 16v will work well for the feedback capacitors also, if that's where you were looking to put some of those.
That sounds fairly reasonable, but this amp belongs to my friend's wife - and we're not looking at a bunch of mods. It's a 37 year-old unit, and it came to me due to a shorted bridge rect. that was killing AC mains fuses. I suggested this would be a good time to freshen up the PSU electrolytics as well - and that's in process. It's getting new 10,000uF @ 100V to replace the 2" 75V cans. All of the 100uF @ 100V parts are also being replaced.. and that will pretty much over the PSU.
I was also thinking to replace that little Illinois coupling Cap C1 (10u/25V) since I'd be in there already. Idea was to put something more musically oriented in that hole. But for all I know, it may be a pointless exercise.
I can't say they're in the FB loop - but then again, I don't know this design, either. Got any links to the Muse bipolar parts - is it a Mouser / Digikey item? Here's a clip of the schematic, showing C15 (470u / 6.3V):
What do you make of it? Solid-State newbie, here... far as I can see, the only real coupling cap is the input.
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Here are a couple links;
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Nichicon/UES1C471MHM/&qs=kArNe9LFxXnMJ2de9VkjoQ==
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Prod...EpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22e0BBN1kF1oiGshm0IB%2b%2b90=
I understand regarding not modifying someone's amp, and after all, no good deed ever goes unpunished...
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Nichicon/UES1C471MHM/&qs=kArNe9LFxXnMJ2de9VkjoQ==
http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_Prod...EpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22e0BBN1kF1oiGshm0IB%2b%2b90=
I understand regarding not modifying someone's amp, and after all, no good deed ever goes unpunished...
phase,
Hey thanks, man! Apparently my search skills are lacking or something, as I wasn't able to locate those on Mouser's site. Price is right, for sure.
Yep, you know it. She's had this set (there's a Hafler preamp as well) since it was built ca. 1980, and plans to run it for the duration. I don't want to make any drastic changes, but it does seem there's likely some advantage in replacing the input caps with something more tailored to audio use.
Hey thanks, man! Apparently my search skills are lacking or something, as I wasn't able to locate those on Mouser's site. Price is right, for sure.
Yep, you know it. She's had this set (there's a Hafler preamp as well) since it was built ca. 1980, and plans to run it for the duration. I don't want to make any drastic changes, but it does seem there's likely some advantage in replacing the input caps with something more tailored to audio use.
Howdy jean-paul, and thanks for your inputs..
Unsure of the pitch, but 5mm would be +almost+ right.. seems awfully small for a film cap, though. The stock electrolytic part is ~5mm diameter at most (radial leads).
Where would I find the WIMA 10u @ 50V parts? Mouser? I'd like to see a datasheet, or at least an eng. drawing.
As I said, C5 is the 470uF / 6.3V non-polar in question. Now C6 is a 270p mica, which should be very stable, so I plan to leave it.
Unsure of the pitch, but 5mm would be +almost+ right.. seems awfully small for a film cap, though. The stock electrolytic part is ~5mm diameter at most (radial leads).
Where would I find the WIMA 10u @ 50V parts? Mouser? I'd like to see a datasheet, or at least an eng. drawing.
As I said, C5 is the 470uF / 6.3V non-polar in question. Now C6 is a 270p mica, which should be very stable, so I plan to leave it.
Too bad, they are listed as obsolete.... while there are almost no equivalents. They indeed are 5 mm pitch which is their unique feature as "elco replacement".
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-XL-10-50-10/?qs=QkNLLRillGkm8IK5PCzWaA==
The 4.7 µF seems available. Since I obtained these in amounts I can also send them as I have them in stock. I saw in time that is was going to rain so to speak.
* I asked for C8...
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/WIMA/MKS2-XL-10-50-10/?qs=QkNLLRillGkm8IK5PCzWaA==
The 4.7 µF seems available. Since I obtained these in amounts I can also send them as I have them in stock. I saw in time that is was going to rain so to speak.
* I asked for C8...
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Wow, those Wima parts are pretty cool, would definitely be my choice over an electrolytic.
Good find.
The humongous hafler DH200 thread had some discussion on the input capacitor's value when using film parts, and the consensus was 4-4.7uf.
If you do choose those wima Mylar ones, you may want to remove the bypass capacitors, as they will likely not be contributing anything good at that point.
Good find.
The humongous hafler DH200 thread had some discussion on the input capacitor's value when using film parts, and the consensus was 4-4.7uf.
If you do choose those wima Mylar ones, you may want to remove the bypass capacitors, as they will likely not be contributing anything good at that point.
Since they came out I have used these extensively and they are just fine. The Wima MKS2-XL (I think they now are grouped under MKS2) fit just like the original electrolytic caps. I did the experiment with 2 identical Rotel amplifiers. One that had the Wima and one had electrolytic caps. That small test was convincing. Whatever the consensus is in Hafler threads, I would never use half the value that the manufacturer used. Probably the Wima were unknown and then a certain large 4.7 µF came around as possible "replacement that barely fits". If the 10 µF can not be found one can use the 4.7 µF, one at the bottom and one at the upper side of the PCB.
It is clear to me that the existence of these parts is relatively unknown. Please note that they also exist in 2.5 mm pitch in the value of 1 µF. Also 0.1 µF etc. Excellent replacements for ceramic caps. I don't have any connection to Wima except that I am a satisfied customer.
http://www.mouser.de/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/_/N-9x371?P=1z0wrj5Z1z0vn3t
In the feedback loop I only use MUSE bipolar electrolytic caps and not polar electrolytic caps.
It is clear to me that the existence of these parts is relatively unknown. Please note that they also exist in 2.5 mm pitch in the value of 1 µF. Also 0.1 µF etc. Excellent replacements for ceramic caps. I don't have any connection to Wima except that I am a satisfied customer.
http://www.mouser.de/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Film-Capacitors/_/N-9x371?P=1z0wrj5Z1z0vn3t
In the feedback loop I only use MUSE bipolar electrolytic caps and not polar electrolytic caps.
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Yes, I noticed I have older versions of the 10 µF with lower voltage ratings and some of the larger 50V versions. The older are less wide. Till now I have not run into problems of them not fitting physically but that may be different in your case so please check available space.
I got a reply from Wima that the 10 µF 50V is not going out of production yet. They have included the part numbers in the datasheet again.
I got a reply from Wima that the 10 µF 50V is not going out of production yet. They have included the part numbers in the datasheet again.
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I would try a bipolar from Elna as well in plus of the silmic II which has is own not bad character in serie ! (but sorry, xhat ever Pass says, I don't think it's a good cap at power supply position !)
and if size doesn't matter as it's a serie input cap (and if space enough above the pcb : russian K73-16 10 uF : huge but worth it, cheap, mylar type.
Now the best can be th enemy of the good : once I tried in a Yamaha preamp to swap the elna normal input cap for better bi-polars, Black Gate N, etc : no one was better than the genuine cap... make your tests and decide by ears !
and if size doesn't matter as it's a serie input cap (and if space enough above the pcb : russian K73-16 10 uF
: huge but worth it, cheap, mylar type.Now the best can be th enemy of the good : once I tried in a Yamaha preamp to swap the elna normal input cap for better bi-polars, Black Gate N, etc : no one was better than the genuine cap... make your tests and decide by ears !
I am not aware of Nelson Pass ever suggesting the use of an audio-grade capacitor in a power supply unit. It is either a product of your imagination or of your very limited English language skills.
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