Vifa TC9FD18-08 best bang for the buck

[pnix]

Hi,

Measurements shown here and elsewhere suggest that the Vifa TC9FD18-08 currently seems to be the best bang for the buck. Far better performance than drivers that cost a lot more.
Transducer Detail | Tymphany

Like any small driver it starts to distort at low frequencies and is limited in output though.

In what type of enclosure would the driver work best if paired with a subwoofer? The goal would be to achieve low frequency extension to about 80Hz. What SPL can be expected?

Is this even a viable option or would a FAST configuration be a better fit?

 

[Mayuri]

I think you can pull off LF of 80Hz from this, but I recommend you cross it higher. Maybe aperiodic enclosure or short TL would work?

Personally, I'm going for around 350Hz XO in my project: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268037-fast-tl.html

 

[sayrum]

Hey
Here you get about F3: 60Hz from the Vifa TC9FD18-08 and no BSC needed.
But the cabinet is flat on the wall (44x65x6.6cm).

Regards

 

[xrk971]

What SPL levels do you need and how much harnonic distortion are you willing to have? I have built about 12 different alignments with the TC9FD (including the above two suggested by Mayuri and Sayrum). It was in fact, the one suggested by Sayrum that introduced me to the TC9FD. If you want "hifi" levels of HD (under 0.5%) you have to cross over above 250Hz to maybe 350Hz. If you can tolerate a few % THD and stay below 80dB for background music you can have it using a DCR - this has the flattest response and reaches 55Hz f3. For best overall musical enjoyment and ability to fill a room with music, the 0.4x Karlsonator is the winner (70Hz f3) You just have to look at how many happy builds there have been on that thread. I have not tried it in the XKi alignment yet but that may prove to be low HD down to 80Hz easily but with some coloration in mid bass.

 

[pnix]

Thanks guys!

Do we have enough data points that would allow us to do a listing like this?

Enclosure type / HP type       THD <1%        THD <5%        THD <10%

Closed 24dB@80Hz               85dB           88dB           91dB
...                            ...            ...            ...

 

[xrk971]

I did not measure THD at different SPL levels so may have one set of points. Also, not always at 1m or 2.83v. Also really not the best way to specify it as a single number - I like to see 2nd thru 5th harmonics and in a graph to know where it is bad. Sometimes high THD at very low bass of 50Hz is not bad if fairly clean at 100Hz. Single THD value not super useful unless system is so good you can specify less than 0.5% THD everywhere from 50Hz to 10kHz.

 

[planet10]

In what type of enclosure would the driver work best if paired with a subwoofer? The goal would be to achieve low frequency extension to about 80Hz. What SPL can be expected?

Just yesterday i dug out my set of 4 of these and went about looking at putting these in a box.

The high Q pushed me to a minimum 5 litre sealed box. Basically you want to put it into as big a box as possible. Sealed or aperiodic.

As box size goes up response won't change much from the sealed 5.5 litre we will put these in for testing. F3 about 105, F6 90, F10 low 70s. Using PE posted numbers (Madisounds make for a worse case)

In a FAST this should really have a higher XO. I'd suggest above 250 Hz.

XRK probably has the most experience with these.

dave

 

[xrk971]

I was able to get away with 1 liter in the Dagger short TL and XO at 400 Hz.

 

[xrk971]

Just yesterday i dug out my set of 4 of these and went about looking at putting these in a box.

The high Q pushed me to a minimum 5 litre sealed box. Basically you wanttoput it into as big a box as possible. Sealed or aperiodic.

As box size goes up response won't change much from the sealed 5.5 litre we will put these in for testing. F3 about 105, F6 90, F10 low 70s. Using PE posted numbers (Madisounds make for a worse case)

In a FAST this should really have a higher XO. I'd suggest above 250 Hz.

XRK probably has the most experience with these.

dave

How do you like the sound?

 

[planet10]

We haven't listened to them yet, just finally started towards evaluating them

dave

 

[chrisb]

dinallt = finally?

 

[planet10]

Yes.

Sealed milliSize to answer your other question. I'll look to see if i still have the last mMarS FP.

dave

 

[pnix]

I did not measure THD at different SPL levels so may have one set of points. Also, not always at 1m or 2.83v. Also really not the best way to specify it as a single number - I like to see 2nd thru 5th harmonics and in a graph to know where it is bad. Sometimes high THD at very low bass of 50Hz is not bad if fairly clean at 100Hz. Single THD value not super useful unless system is so good you can specify less than 0.5% THD everywhere from 50Hz to 10kHz.

I agree that a single number isn't meaningful in itself but, THD usually rises at lower frequencies so I would think stating THD around LF cutoff would be meaningful?

 

[Slothrop]

It is a lovely little driver. They can get pretty loud if you do something like this with them...

 

[wesayso]

This might come in handy:

Published as educational reference, originally printed by Klang Und Ton februar 2010.

As seen on the graph it would require a Fast to keep good figures at higher SPL (95 dB/1m). 25 of them per box is another story though .

 

[freddi]

I must be pushing it higher on peaks than that with one per 0.4 scale Karlsonator cabinet - my Onkyo 5.1 receiver went into thermal limiting after 40 hard minutes of Jo Ann Castle on piano and Buddy Hayes on tuba & upright bass - its a great driver and the Karlsonator keeps timbre even within a 90 degree horizontal window at 10KHz. You could use 1KW per channel with 25 drivers a side.

 

[wesayso]

You could use 1KW per channel with 25 drivers a side.

Not if you want to keep your hearing!

 

[freddi]

for an instantaneous delicacy read this http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...sable-brief-music-transients.html#post4049431

here's the input Z of one in a foam core Karlsonator

 

[vulejov]

The market is full of small fulrange driver, 3-4 inches turned out to be ideal size..
If they are well designed can replace midrange and tweeter.. it is foolish to use them as a woofer, for everyone distortion rapidly growing below 500Hz, that is exactly point where they should be cut..

The quality increases with price.. Vifa is not bad at all, but Visaton B80 is faster and with smaller distorsion, and more expensive.. ScanSpeak 10F/8424 even little better, and twice costly..

For me, making of speakers is big enough harassment, and should not be repeated frequently.. so use the best drivers on the market and make uncompromising xover..

 

[xrk971]

You all know that I love the TC9FD and think it is a wonderful driver. In the right cabinet, you can extract some amazing bass at moderate levels. I think that if you are looking for something with a little better finish and superb build quality, take a good look at the Dayton RS100-4. I like the paper cone version RS100P-4, they have a cast metal frame, a Qts of 0.53, 4mm of linear xmax, and is well priced at $33. Sounds very nice too. Very hard to find a 3.5in class driver with 4mm xmax at any price.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/88787-tabaq-tl-tang-band-104.html#post4201211

The aluminum cone version costs less, has more sparkle but is kind of sibilant due to peak at 15kHz that rings. Can be cured with a few strips of cellophane tape applied to cone without detriment to FR.