Vacuum Tube SPICE Models

jazbo8 · 2014-02-07 8:12 am

needtubes said:
Ah, well, not terribly close.

I just noticed that the triode curve given on the RCA datasheet was for Type 30, not Type 19, so your model is actually pretty good.

needtubes · 2014-02-07 4:09 pm

jazbo8 said:
I just noticed that the triode curve given on the RCA datasheet was for Type 30, not Type 19, so your model is actually pretty good.

I had the same problem initially...

dirkwright · 2014-02-07 7:10 pm

jazbo8 said:

It's the incorrect version of the code. TINA uses the URAMP, not the LIMIT function... Try this one:

Code:

*
* Generic pentode model: 6267
* Copyright 2003--2006 by Ayumi Nakabayashi, All rights reserved.
* Version 3.01, Generated on Wed Mar 22 17:22:56 2006
.SUBCKT 6267 A G2 G1 K
BGG   GG   0 V=V(G1,K)+0.59868749
BEP   EP   0 V=URAMP(V(A,K))+1e-10
BEG   EG   0 V=URAMP(V(G1,K))+1e-10
BEG2  EG2  0 V=URAMP(V(G2,K))+1e-10
BM1   M1   0 V=(0.010782364*(URAMP(V(EG2)-1e-10)+1e-10))^-0.70765893
BM2   M2   0 V=(0.67945278*(URAMP(V(GG)+V(EG2)/29.728844)+1e-10))^2.2076589
BP    P    0 V=0.0013378994*(URAMP(V(GG)+V(EG2)/43.754099)+1e-10)^1.5
BIK   IK   0 V=U(V(GG))*V(P)+(1-U(V(GG)))*0.00078620809*V(M1)*V(M2)
BIG   IG   0 V=0.00066894969*V(EG)^1.5*(V(EG)/(V(EP)+V(EG))*1.2+0.4)
BIK2  IK2  0 V=V(IK,IG)*(1-0.4*(EXP(-V(EP)/V(EG2)*15)-EXP(-15)))
BIG2T IG2T 0 V=V(IK2)*(0.83966688*(1-V(EP)/(V(EP)+10))^1.5+0.16033312)
BIK3  IK3  0 V=V(IK2)*(V(EP)+7510)/(V(EG2)+7510)
BIK4  IK4  0 V=V(IK3)-URAMP(V(IK3)-(0.00071507731*(V(EP)+URAMP(V(EG2,EP)))^1.5))
BIP   IP   0 V=URAMP(V(IK4,IG2T)-URAMP(V(IK4,IG2T)-(0.00071507731*V(EP)^1.5)))
BIAK  A    K I=V(IP)+1e-10*V(A,K)
BIG2  G2   K I=URAMP(V(IK4,IP))
BIGK  G1   K I=V(IG)
* CAPS
CGA   G1  A  0.05p
CGK   G1  K  2.3p
C12   G1  G2 1.5p
CAK   A   K  5.3p
.ENDS

It comes out as an opto-transistor....

jazbo8 · 2014-02-07 7:53 pm

Read post 299.

dirkwright · 2014-02-07 8:03 pm

jazbo8 said:
Read post 299.

OK, thanks. It helps if I paid closer attention.

I installed the macro ok, but it does not work. I get an error at the cathode. It says it's an irregular circuit, whereas I have an EF86 model that works fine in the same location. Any help is appreciated.

cogsncogs · 2014-02-07 11:33 pm

dirkwright said:
I installed the macro ok, but it does not work. I get an error at the cathode. It says it's an irregular circuit, whereas I have an EF86 model that works fine in the same location. Any help is appreciated.

I just tried it in a simple circuit with no such errors. Make sure you have the nodes in the subckt connected to the correct pins.

dirkwright · 2014-02-07 11:43 pm

That's not what I get.

dirkwright · 2014-02-07 11:44 pm

cogsncogs said:
I just tried it in a simple circuit with no such errors. Make sure you have the nodes in the subckt connected to the correct pins.

When it was building the macro, it only asked me to connect up G1 and G2. I did that correctly. The error is in the cathode. I don't have any idea why.

cogsncogs · 2014-02-08 2:39 am

I can only think of two things, well three:
1. Make sure you are using the latest version (v9.0) of TINA.
2. Try re-importing the macro, just in case you missed something.
3. Make sure VG1 settings are correct.

Also the unaltered original 6267 Ayumi model (URAMP) posted by jazbo8 (post 294) will work in TINA. You have to uncheck the "Show suggested types only" box and type "tetrode" in the search box and/or choose vacuum tube from the "Shape type" dropdown.

dirkwright · 2014-02-08 5:07 pm

cogsncogs said:
I can only think of two things, well three:
1. Make sure you are using the latest version (v9.0) of TINA.
2. Try re-importing the macro, just in case you missed something.
3. Make sure VG1 settings are correct.

Also the unaltered original 6267 Ayumi model (URAMP) posted by jazbo8 (post 294) will work in TINA. You have to uncheck the "Show suggested types only" box and type "tetrode" in the search box and/or choose vacuum tube from the "Shape type" dropdown.

Thanks very much. I'll get back to this when I have time.

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 2:41 pm

There seem to be a few individuals here that have used Ayumi's "R" program and method to produce tube models. I was hoping someone would be so kind as to post the precise link from Ayumi's website which explains how to use the "R" program and how to perform Ayumi's method.

Thanks.

jazbo8 · 2014-02-09 4:47 pm

Download the R program, and read the user manual.
R Home Page.
CRAN
Windows FAQ

Then get Ayumi's pctube program here. For examples on how to use the pctube program, you need to pick up various bits and pieces from his website, but good places to start are: here, here and here.

Hope this helps.

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 4:57 pm

Thanks.

Some of your above links aren't working.

I had already downloaded "pctube_1.11_win.zip" and "tubemodel_3.01_win.zip". I do not see a user's manual in these. Am I still missing a file?

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 5:14 pm

OK, the links seem to be working now.

So R is about a 50M download?

I'll check out the other pages you linked.

Too bad this isn't all spelled out somewhere with links and English translations. Perhaps I'll try doing this.

jazbo8 · 2014-02-09 5:18 pm

pctube does not have a manual, it is just pctube.r, have you downloaded and installed R?

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 5:28 pm

jazbo8 said:
pctube does not have a manual, it is just pctube.r, have you downloaded and installed R?

I've downloaded R, but I was hoping to be able to read the manual before installing, to be sure I even want to bother trying it. Apparently the manual is buried within the install.

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 5:43 pm

Is it safe to assume that there is no basic user guide (in English) or tutorial in existence that takes you from importing an image to extract curve data, or importing already-existing curve data into R to produce a SPICE model output?

I was also under the impression that Ayumi wrote "R", but I guess not. does Ayumi walk us through this in your links? He seems to provide a few hints but nothing comprehensive.

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 5:46 pm

It's too late for me (just installed R), but for others that may be interested, here is a link to the R manuals.

jazbo8 · 2014-02-09 5:53 pm

No, R is just an open-source math program, nothing to do with Ayumi... However, he does provide instruction on SPICE model building, I used Google Translate to read the document, in which, he gave several examples, so you can follow along. Here is the translated document. It may take some time to learn to use R and pctube, but once you get it, the process is pretty straight-forward.

poynt99 · 2014-02-09 5:57 pm

Without a basic guide in English that specifically pertains to the use of "R" for extracting SPICE tube models, I'm going to have to defer to others here that may want to extract the model(s) for me.

I have spent some considerable time searching for and playing with various curve fitting software, and have settled on "Dagra".

I have produced a detailed set of Plate Curve data for the 12AX7 (GE datasheet) and would appreciate it if someone were so kind to produce an Ayumi (and for that matter a Koren and Rydel with Curvecaptor) model from it. My curve data is very accurate as I used Bezier curves for fitting. I have output the results in 3 levels of granularity; 0.1V, 0.5V, 1V steps in Vp. There are over 5000 data points for the 0.1V step set.

See attached csv files. (can't seem to do attachments yet

)

Vacuum Tube SPICE Models

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