Yes, the JBL's (people never get satisfied, with a bad alignment) are very tricky. No lower extension. If you are prepared to accept that and work that out (like w. new subs). I don't see a problem. In a HT a modern receiver/mic does the dirty work. Wayne P. also uses 2 subs, from what I can tell, but I don't know if they are powered... probably. The electronic crossover is for the mids-highs I suppose.
Thank you for the answer! You are helping me a lot, Inductor!
As I live in an apartment that is not too big, I don't want subs right now.
My setup is 2 'fullrange' main speakers. Nothing more.
The electronic cross-over and 3 amps (now 2 amps) are for the high, mid and low in 1 enclosure.
As I replaced the JBL bullet and EV midrange with the b&c de250, I just use 2 amps now: one for the de250, one for the delta 15lfa. The drivers are situated both in the same enclosure, no extra subs.
Which driver will give me the largest frequency range for a simple 2-way speaker without subs(thinking about the lower frequencies): the JBL 2226H, or the deltalite 2512 II ?
The volume of the enclosure can be 114L or less (wich my wife would prefer: taller boxes, same height).
Could you calculate that for me please?
Thank you very much!
As I live in an apartment that is not too big, I don't want subs right now.
My setup is 2 'fullrange' main speakers. Nothing more.
The electronic cross-over and 3 amps (now 2 amps) are for the high, mid and low in 1 enclosure.
As I replaced the JBL bullet and EV midrange with the b&c de250, I just use 2 amps now: one for the de250, one for the delta 15lfa. The drivers are situated both in the same enclosure, no extra subs.
Which driver will give me the largest frequency range for a simple 2-way speaker without subs(thinking about the lower frequencies): the JBL 2226H, or the deltalite 2512 II ?
The volume of the enclosure can be 114L or less (wich my wife would prefer: taller boxes, same height).
Could you calculate that for me please?
Thank you very much!
Let's say as a simulation, you have a (15") JBL 2226H in a max.vol. of 114 L BR(you don't because it's best in a BR=83L w. higher F3) tunned to 40 Hz.
F3=46Hz, F6=38Hz, F12=30Hz, F24=21Hz.
Now the (12") EMINENCE DELTALITE-II 2512 in a BR=114 L, FB = 29 Hz.
F3=43Hz, F6=32Hz, F12=23Hz, F24=15Hz.
F3=46Hz, F6=38Hz, F12=30Hz, F24=21Hz.
Now the (12") EMINENCE DELTALITE-II 2512 in a BR=114 L, FB = 29 Hz.
F3=43Hz, F6=32Hz, F12=23Hz, F24=15Hz.
Thank you for the simulation.
So a smaller enclosure (83L) gives a better roloff with the JBL 2226H en should sound better, no? That is no problem. I can make the cabinets smaller. I just can't make them larger.
I did some research how to calculate this and found the program WinISD. With a 83L enclosure and the JBL 2226H, the roloff seems smoother indeed. I found:
F3=64Hz, F6=46hz, F12= 33hz, F24=21hz
Is this right? Or didn't I do it the right way? (I am very new to that
)
So, for the deltalite 2512 in a even smaller enclosure, (dimensions that fit in my furniture: 36cm width, 36 cm depth, 65,8cm height with 18mm MDF) = 67,4L (or 2,38 cubic feet).
Tuned at 40hz, simulation gives me for the deltalite 2512 in smaller enclosure:
F3=63hz, F6=49hz, F12=34hz, F24=20hz
In other words, the deltalite gives me a very similar roloff in a smaller enclosure (67,4L), compared with the JBL 2226H in a larger enclosure (83L). Or did I make a mistake?
I attached 3 curves:
- JBL 2226H in a 83L enclosure
- deltalite 2512 in a 67,4L enclosure
- comparision of both:
So a smaller enclosure (83L) gives a better roloff with the JBL 2226H en should sound better, no? That is no problem. I can make the cabinets smaller. I just can't make them larger.
I did some research how to calculate this and found the program WinISD. With a 83L enclosure and the JBL 2226H, the roloff seems smoother indeed. I found:
F3=64Hz, F6=46hz, F12= 33hz, F24=21hz
Is this right? Or didn't I do it the right way? (I am very new to that
)So, for the deltalite 2512 in a even smaller enclosure, (dimensions that fit in my furniture: 36cm width, 36 cm depth, 65,8cm height with 18mm MDF) = 67,4L (or 2,38 cubic feet).
Tuned at 40hz, simulation gives me for the deltalite 2512 in smaller enclosure:
F3=63hz, F6=49hz, F12=34hz, F24=20hz
In other words, the deltalite gives me a very similar roloff in a smaller enclosure (67,4L), compared with the JBL 2226H in a larger enclosure (83L). Or did I make a mistake?
I attached 3 curves:
- JBL 2226H in a 83L enclosure
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- deltalite 2512 in a 67,4L enclosure
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- comparision of both:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Okay!
I went for the JBL's. If I wouldn't be happy with them, it will be no problem selling them for the price I can get them. But I doubt that
Next problem to solve: the horn.
2 options right now:
- two second hand SEOS-15 horns
- maybe 2 eminence H290 horns from a little company in Belgium.
If I go '4pi', the SEOS-15 are no option because of the dimension of the SEOS-15 (the rectangular port next to the horn wouldn't be possibble)
Anybody has another option (good horn for the de250), will be crossed with the JBL 2226H at 1khz or 1.6khz...
Thanks in advance!
Hmm, can't wait starting to build the cabinets! But first things first: I need a horn.
I went for the JBL's. If I wouldn't be happy with them, it will be no problem selling them for the price I can get them. But I doubt that
Next problem to solve: the horn.
2 options right now:
- two second hand SEOS-15 horns
- maybe 2 eminence H290 horns from a little company in Belgium.
If I go '4pi', the SEOS-15 are no option because of the dimension of the SEOS-15 (the rectangular port next to the horn wouldn't be possibble)
Anybody has another option (good horn for the de250), will be crossed with the JBL 2226H at 1khz or 1.6khz...
Thanks in advance!
Hmm, can't wait starting to build the cabinets!
But first things first: I need a horn.
You can just move the port, but that's irrelevant because the 4pi crossover isn't likely to work right with the SEOS in phase alignment, if not also on-axis frequency response.
Have you asked Wayne at pispeakers for a price shipping his H290c to you? It's a bit better than the original H290. There's also this QSC QSC PL-000446GP Replacement Waveguide Horn for HPR152i 245-625 but it is pretty overpriced ordered that way (and you have to special-request mail shipping to get them shipped out of the US without paying a fortune). If you have a pro audio place nearby, though, you could see if they can get you a pair of them for a better price. I'd rather have the H290c if prices were the same, though. SEOS is good too, of course.
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I asked Wayne Parham for the horns, but the shipping costs to Belgium (Europe) are almost as high as the price for the horns and delivery would be in a month...
As I would really like to start building, I was looking around for other solutions. So, every solution is welcome!
PS, he sells indeed the parts apart.
As I would really like to start building, I was looking around for other solutions. So, every solution is welcome!
PS, he sells indeed the parts apart.
YOUR DRIVER NEEDS TO BE CROSSED HIGH ~1600Hz (PSD2002 lower ~1200Hz)
we must take the conclusion that you're resourcing a horn from Europe...
(Tweeter Horn/Waveguide (H290C) $50.00) Take the time and get it from Wayne. You will be happy. In the mean time you can use some old vintage spare... for playing (with crossovers and the new box). Also pay for new crossovers, one day you want to sell the kit as a 4PiSpeaker (passive loudspeaker).
we must take the conclusion that you're resourcing a horn from Europe...
(Tweeter Horn/Waveguide (H290C) $50.00) Take the time and get it from Wayne. You will be happy. In the mean time you can use some old vintage spare... for playing (with crossovers and the new box). Also pay for new crossovers, one day you want to sell the kit as a 4PiSpeaker (passive loudspeaker).
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I tried crossing them at 1khz in a test setup (active crossover, with my previous JBL2370 horns), and it sounded pretty good actually. If you look to the curve, 1khz doesn't seem bad, no?
However, I will probably do a crossover at 1.6khz.
However, I will probably do a crossover at 1.6khz.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I bet it will look pretty much the same if you drop the crossover to 200Hz . First, consider the polar patterns of the horn/waveguide you're going to use, and where those will match the woofer pattern. Then consider/determine whether you can cross over where the match is good, or if you need to compromise for distortion / power handling.
. First, consider the polar patterns of the horn/waveguide you're going to use, and where those will match the woofer pattern. Then consider/determine whether you can cross over where the match is good, or if you need to compromise for distortion / power handling.
Ha, well that explains that. I have DE250 right now on an HPR152i waveguide running at 1100Hz LR4 active with some additional passive filtering. The total filter is attached (acoustic xover point is ~1350Hz). I think this is about as far as you can push it.The curve represents the overall frequency reponse of the de250 driver, downloaded from the b&c website.
P.S. Actually, Geddes takes it a little bit lower, IIRC. He uses an unusual crossover circuit.
Attachments
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Another link (bi-radials)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/204222-jbl-2342-bi-radial-horn-revisited.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/204222-jbl-2342-bi-radial-horn-revisited.html
With the active crossover, it is possible to experiment with the crossover frequencies. When the cabinets are ready, I will experiment ALOT. Cross-over frequency will also depend on what horn I will use eventually.
Wayne P. crosses his JBL 2226H with the de250 at 1.6khz (and de spec sheet says "1.6khz minimum x-over frequency"). So, you have a point, Inductor.
Cross-over frequency will also depend on what horn I will use eventually.Wayne P. crosses his JBL 2226H with the de250 at 1.6khz (and de spec sheet says "1.6khz minimum x-over frequency"). So, you have a point, Inductor.
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