Straight sided horn only to narrow the vertical dispersion.
Yes the circle is a small driver cone, thinking Faital 3fe20.
You could get fancy phase plugging the throat, but thats
something you can muck with later, if it seems worthy.
What is to horn model about a flat straight sided wedge?
It is obviously a fraction of a circle and behaves as normal
circular radiation would within a thin plane. Reflection from
the sudden impedance change at the exit slot where the
radiation becomes three dimensional is the only cause for
concern.
The distance to the 1st reflection is well distributed. The
distance to the exit slot is maybe not so well distributed,
but not so severely of one distance as it might be with a
parabolic reflector.
If a paraline can work acceptably with a hard impedance
change all at one distance from the driver, a simple cone
with distributed exit distance can't help but be smoother.
You worry too much...
Yes the circle is a small driver cone, thinking Faital 3fe20.
You could get fancy phase plugging the throat, but thats
something you can muck with later, if it seems worthy.
What is to horn model about a flat straight sided wedge?
It is obviously a fraction of a circle and behaves as normal
circular radiation would within a thin plane. Reflection from
the sudden impedance change at the exit slot where the
radiation becomes three dimensional is the only cause for
concern.
The distance to the 1st reflection is well distributed. The
distance to the exit slot is maybe not so well distributed,
but not so severely of one distance as it might be with a
parabolic reflector.
If a paraline can work acceptably with a hard impedance
change all at one distance from the driver, a simple cone
with distributed exit distance can't help but be smoother.
You worry too much...
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Is this a simple horn, kind of like Altec Lansing used to build way back in the day?
Or is there some kind of Paraline magic to it that I'm not seeing.
Its just like the throat of the Altec MantaRay horn, turned sideways.
Merely folded or bounced off a flat angled mirror to conserve space.
After thinking it over, angled mirror seems far easier than folding.
Three layers vs five? Yeah, I'll take the three layer solution...
Paraline (5 layers) you can ignore. Simply proves when sufficiently
less than 1/4 wavelength wide, turned sideways and/or folded is no
problem to go into panic mode about.
Paraline adds complexity to emulate the exit phase of a line source,
and to reduce combing effects when stacked in multiples. MantaRay
has a point source exit phase, difficult to blend smoothly in multiples.
One good argument for paraline, not relevant to this project...
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have not read the whole thread, but my answer to this question:
"I'm trying to come up with cabinet designs that will provide ultra-wide dispersion on the horizontal plane."
would be this:
McIntosh XR19 Speaker System
I built something similar, it sounded great, as prototypes, never finished it though...
"I'm trying to come up with cabinet designs that will provide ultra-wide dispersion on the horizontal plane."
would be this:
McIntosh XR19 Speaker System
I built something similar, it sounded great, as prototypes, never finished it though...
Hi,
Noting the high peaking of such drivers due to high Qts
in reality its nowhere near as bad as it might first appear.
Narrow columns have a high baffle step frequency and the
peaking compensates for the baffle roll-off moreorless.
Baffle step is 6dB of bass loss (e.g. a 90dB driver into
half space does 84dB into full space) , so the peaking
is in fact, in general terms, preferable and purposeful,
for typical column speakers.
rgds, sreten.
Noting the high peaking of such drivers due to high Qts
in reality its nowhere near as bad as it might first appear.
Narrow columns have a high baffle step frequency and the
peaking compensates for the baffle roll-off moreorless.
Baffle step is 6dB of bass loss (e.g. a 90dB driver into
half space does 84dB into full space) , so the peaking
is in fact, in general terms, preferable and purposeful,
for typical column speakers.
rgds, sreten.
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Ahh, thanks for the cool suggestion.
Unfortunately, that enclosure would require too many drivers to fit within the miniscule budget. And also a three way crossover would be $ and require crossover design skills that I lack.
Pic attached of MantaRay in case anyone is wondering....
That would explain why it models better in infinite baffle.
Too bad it's an unknown driver and nobody knows if the high sensitivity & other numbers are true or not.
Four of those drivers per column would belt out some decent db's.
Attachments
Any high Qts driver in general and this one in particular:
Just found these 4.5" drivers. At $2.70/each, they kind of blow my budget.
But the frequency response is closer to the point of not needing a subwoofer to bring up the low end.
On the downside, these model horribly in sealed or vented without a HUGE enclosure.
I would definitely like these bar speakers to be mid-bass HEAVY.
But this looks a little extreme in WinISD.
4.5 Inch 10W 8 Ohm Full Range Pincushion Speaker | XF-119-208 (XF119208) | Distributed By MCM
- Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
- Power 10 watts
- Peak SPL 98 dB
- Sensitivity 93 dB
- Average SPL 91 dB
- Resonant Frequency 150 Hz
- Frequency Range ( -10 dB ): 90 ~ 12200 Hz
- Xmax 1 mm
- Total Weight 0.17 kg / 6 oz
- Magnet Weight 2 oz
- Voice Coil Diameter 14 mm / 0.55
Thiele Small Parameters
- Re 3.3 ohm
- Qms 7.2
- Qes 2.2
- Qts 1.7
- VAS 4.3 Liter
- Mms 2.1 g
- Rms 0.3 kg / s
- Cms 0.5 mm / N
- B * L 1.7 Tm
- Sd 82 cm²
- Le 0.01 mH
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.parts-express.com/tic-gs3-omni-directional-garden-speaker--302-115
Thanks for the chuckle, Phenoholic.
Okay GM, makes sense!
Those drivers would probably do great in Infinite Baffle if the t/s specs are halfway truthful.
I got corrected measurements tonight.
We can do a max of 14" wide by 48" tall by 20" deep. This is the absolute MAX.
The 14" wide opens up the doors to a Karlson 10 if I go that route.
Changes nothing for a column if I go that route.
But the Bar Manager did re-iterate that she wants "low profile".
Something not overly obvious.
Thankfully, it's a dark'ish kind of pub/game room area.
Okay GM, makes sense!
Those drivers would probably do great in Infinite Baffle if the t/s specs are halfway truthful.
I got corrected measurements tonight.
We can do a max of 14" wide by 48" tall by 20" deep. This is the absolute MAX.
The 14" wide opens up the doors to a Karlson 10 if I go that route.
Changes nothing for a column if I go that route.
But the Bar Manager did re-iterate that she wants "low profile".
Something not overly obvious.
Thankfully, it's a dark'ish kind of pub/game room area.
Cool pics, but nothing in that flyer shows the throat in
detail you would need to make sense of the suggestion.
Try this one...
I don't know if this example was a genuine Altec, but
clearly shows the MantaRay style of flattened throat...
Here we can see the complex mouth 60degrees wide,
but yours would be a much simpler 180degrees wide.
Just the front baffle with a slot in it.
Attachments
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You're welcome! Yep, been there, done that and liked what I heard. Here's the Mantaray patent: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/multi-way/367374d1377272104-jbl-horn-04187926_1.pdf
GM
edit: Actually, they were originally a deep charcoal gray and later a standard utility cab matte gray, but often do bleach out in photos, though that one may have been painted after the install since the vast majority of the prosound Mantarays were painted to blend in with the venue as much as practical.
GM
edit: Actually, they were originally a deep charcoal gray and later a standard utility cab matte gray, but often do bleach out in photos, though that one may have been painted after the install since the vast majority of the prosound Mantarays were painted to blend in with the venue as much as practical.
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Just found these 4.5" drivers. At $2.70/each, they kind of blow my budget.
But the frequency response is closer to the point of not needing a subwoofer to bring up the low end.
On the downside, these model horribly in sealed or vented without a HUGE enclosure.
I would definitely like these bar speakers to be mid-bass HEAVY.
But this looks a little extreme in WinISD.
4.5 Inch 10W 8 Ohm Full Range Pincushion Speaker | XF-119-208 (XF119208) | Distributed By MCM
- Nominal Impedance 8 ohm
- Power 10 watts
- Peak SPL 98 dB
- Sensitivity 93 dB
- Average SPL 91 dB
- Resonant Frequency 150 Hz
- Frequency Range ( -10 dB ): 90 ~ 12200 Hz
- Xmax 1 mm
- Total Weight 0.17 kg / 6 oz
- Magnet Weight 2 oz
- Voice Coil Diameter 14 mm / 0.55
Thiele Small Parameters
- Re 3.3 ohm
- Qms 7.2
- Qes 2.2
- Qts 1.7
- VAS 4.3 Liter
- Mms 2.1 g
- Rms 0.3 kg / s
- Cms 0.5 mm / N
- B * L 1.7 Tm
- Sd 82 cm²
- Le 0.01 mH
I'm trying REALLY hard to figure out a good use for these speakers.
They're perfect except for the high qts and low xmax and low highs.
Okay, they aren't perfect. But the price is!
Heck, two of them per enclosure - I could have four enclosures. One between each dart board. All for $20.
It's Altec, though could have an EV label since probably most were made after the buyout.
GM
You are probably well on your way to doing something else,
but I still felt the horn suggestion deserved a legible drawing.
How you might choose to monkey the driver onto the apex
I leave to your imagination. As it depends too much on the
shape of a thing you have not yet purchased. Drilling a hole
and screwing to one side would probably do in a pinch, but
some small attention to phase wouldn't hurt.
Dimensions are 12 wide 48 tall 20 deep x 5/8 wood.
This horn covers a 20 degree vertical angle and is internally
tipped upward 10degrees, as I figure most ears will be at or
above center of the mouth. You are going to run to the same
need to tip upward, if you were to build a line array that
could stand no higher than 48".
The shape of the sandwich can be a simple rectangle if you
don't mind the extra do-nothing weight. All the complicated
shape is in the middle layer and layed out in strips of wood.
If you have a caulk gun, you don't even need to cut angles..
I originally drew it with a rectangle outline, but I felt that
it was easier to visualize the inner shape if the outer was
similarly trimmed of excess wood that served no function.
Both back and front are perfectly vertical, the perspective
rendering might make that detail not so obvious... Angle
of the throat is 20 degrees, angle of the reflector is 45...
but I still felt the horn suggestion deserved a legible drawing.
How you might choose to monkey the driver onto the apex
I leave to your imagination. As it depends too much on the
shape of a thing you have not yet purchased. Drilling a hole
and screwing to one side would probably do in a pinch, but
some small attention to phase wouldn't hurt.
Dimensions are 12 wide 48 tall 20 deep x 5/8 wood.
This horn covers a 20 degree vertical angle and is internally
tipped upward 10degrees, as I figure most ears will be at or
above center of the mouth. You are going to run to the same
need to tip upward, if you were to build a line array that
could stand no higher than 48".
The shape of the sandwich can be a simple rectangle if you
don't mind the extra do-nothing weight. All the complicated
shape is in the middle layer and layed out in strips of wood.
If you have a caulk gun, you don't even need to cut angles..
I originally drew it with a rectangle outline, but I felt that
it was easier to visualize the inner shape if the outer was
similarly trimmed of excess wood that served no function.
Both back and front are perfectly vertical, the perspective
rendering might make that detail not so obvious... Angle
of the throat is 20 degrees, angle of the reflector is 45...
Attachments
Last edited:
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