No not at all, just to give some idea of volume for comparison. The AP210ZO aren't top flight drivers. The AN/K were Seas drivers if memory serves although I don't know what drivers they use in the rest of the range.
This is just a little project to make the most of the Maplins closeout on Audax drivers. KYW pointed the the AN/E as a example of a wide baffle 8" speaker, that was all.
This is just a little project to make the most of the Maplins closeout on Audax drivers. KYW pointed the the AN/E as a example of a wide baffle 8" speaker, that was all.
Cyteen,
Thanks for posting your plots from winisd, what do you consider to be best for this application, and what did you base this descision on?
I have been "playing" with winsid and to be honest i do not really know what i am looking for.
I can see that if a ported design is chosen the speaker has a lower frequency response, but the delay is greater and if a sealed enclosure is chosen this delay is negated but the frequency response does not seem to be low enough,
I have based the last part on my first speaker design which utilised a Seas H571, low end extension was in the order of F3 - 70ish hz, it has always seemed thin to my ear (12L ported enclosure - fantastic midrange though........) in an enclosed cabinet as suggested the AP 210ZO has a similar f3 in my deisgns.
I am sure i am missing something, can some one help me out?
M
Thanks for posting your plots from winisd, what do you consider to be best for this application, and what did you base this descision on?
I have been "playing" with winsid and to be honest i do not really know what i am looking for.
I can see that if a ported design is chosen the speaker has a lower frequency response, but the delay is greater and if a sealed enclosure is chosen this delay is negated but the frequency response does not seem to be low enough,
I have based the last part on my first speaker design which utilised a Seas H571, low end extension was in the order of F3 - 70ish hz, it has always seemed thin to my ear (12L ported enclosure - fantastic midrange though........) in an enclosed cabinet as suggested the AP 210ZO has a similar f3 in my deisgns.
I am sure i am missing something, can some one help me out?
M
I was under the impression that in europe much of the marine ply was baltic birch. The advantage of the marine ply being that it is void free and the glue is unlikely to weaken causing delamination if the finished speakers get damp over time (through high humidity or being accidentally dropped in a river).
Using the winISD model its hard to see a sealed box getting the most from this driver but just increasing the volume to wring the lowest response as you say leads to more erratic differences in delay. But I don't know the thresholds at which group delay becomes audible so that doesn't aid in making the choice.
So I was thinking of aiming for either 34 or 37 L. The AN/J dimensions give a 13" baffle and 37 L and the phi ratioed 34 L has a 14" baffle but is considered a good way to minimise internal standing waves.
I would class both these as quite large speakers but this should also give a big slice of bass without asking too much of this driver. .
So the question is, is the extra volume worth the extra 2db or is a baffle 1" narrower a consideration. Anyone got a coin or a suggestion?. ;-)
Using the winISD model its hard to see a sealed box getting the most from this driver but just increasing the volume to wring the lowest response as you say leads to more erratic differences in delay. But I don't know the thresholds at which group delay becomes audible so that doesn't aid in making the choice.
So I was thinking of aiming for either 34 or 37 L. The AN/J dimensions give a 13" baffle and 37 L and the phi ratioed 34 L has a 14" baffle but is considered a good way to minimise internal standing waves.
I would class both these as quite large speakers but this should also give a big slice of bass without asking too much of this driver. .
So the question is, is the extra volume worth the extra 2db or is a baffle 1" narrower a consideration. Anyone got a coin or a suggestion?. ;-)
Konnichiwa,
But winISD is useless whan designing a Speaker to be used in a normal living room. It cannot work under such conditions and any alignment that "looks good" in winISD will be overly bass heavy and boomy in reality. Of course, then you can block the ports and get good sound anyway.
Can I suggest the following?
1) Room gain MUST be taken into account. this means the speaker should show a slow and gentle rolloff below around 100Hz with -12db @ 20Hz.
2) Any "reflex" mechanism build into the should be used to limit the drivers excursion at low frequencies in the 20 - 40Hz, so use the tuning to minimise excurion for this range. Do not use this resonant system to boost the LF output.
Sayonara
cyteen said:
But winISD is useless whan designing a Speaker to be used in a normal living room. It cannot work under such conditions and any alignment that "looks good" in winISD will be overly bass heavy and boomy in reality. Of course, then you can block the ports and get good sound anyway.
Can I suggest the following?
1) Room gain MUST be taken into account. this means the speaker should show a slow and gentle rolloff below around 100Hz with -12db @ 20Hz.
2) Any "reflex" mechanism build into the should be used to limit the drivers excursion at low frequencies in the 20 - 40Hz, so use the tuning to minimise excurion for this range. Do not use this resonant system to boost the LF output.
Sayonara
Looking at KYW's Xlbox shows the combined baffle-loss/Room-gain but I haven't had time to see how placement alters the curves of combined response. Also running on unix means the graphing has to be a little more manual than I'd like.
Salas,
Can you remember the dimensions/tuning you used successfully with these drivers. I'd always prefer to follow a successful pattern than not.
Salas,
Can you remember the dimensions/tuning you used successfully with these drivers. I'd always prefer to follow a successful pattern than not.
Re: oh and i forgot
William T. Eden has plenty of birch ply choices, and a number of depots. I think they call baltic ply "Latvian Birch Plywood"
Check them out at:
http://www.edens.co.uk/index.html?stockandpriceguidemenu1.htm~main
D1GGY said:
William T. Eden has plenty of birch ply choices, and a number of depots. I think they call baltic ply "Latvian Birch Plywood"
Check them out at:
http://www.edens.co.uk/index.html?stockandpriceguidemenu1.htm~main
I pretty much agree with Wang's suggestions. It's important that the front baffle be wide enough. 13" isn't quite enough IMO. Try 18 or 20", and golden ratios are a must, at least WRT cross section (WxD). The height can be fudged a bit, but best to stick to golden there too, or at least avoid multiples.
I like series crossovers, but a couple caveats. Component quality is even more critical than with parallel types, and watch for impedance dips at the crossover point. IME, a series crossover will sound pretty good even if a little off, whereas you really have to nail a parallel type but might get a little more clarity. Try both and decide....
GB
I like series crossovers, but a couple caveats. Component quality is even more critical than with parallel types, and watch for impedance dips at the crossover point. IME, a series crossover will sound pretty good even if a little off, whereas you really have to nail a parallel type but might get a little more clarity. Try both and decide....
GB
At 20" baffle and golden ratio that gives us a volume of about 130L.
Given my front room that makes these so imposing they will be demanding their own parking spaces as soon as they are in the door (or the window given how narrow the stairs are to my front door.)
On the other hand it makes the 50L enclosures seem quite reasonable. (if the front room wasn't only 9 feet by 12 feet by 9 feet high.
Given my front room that makes these so imposing they will be demanding their own parking spaces as soon as they are in the door (or the window given how narrow the stairs are to my front door.)
On the other hand it makes the 50L enclosures seem quite reasonable. (if the front room wasn't only 9 feet by 12 feet by 9 feet high.
OK, I get 16.58x10.55x25.64" for 54l golden ratio.
Did you remember the material thickness? Internal width doesn't matter for these purposes. That should be wide enough, but you could always add two side cheeks to build it out to ~18", or build a 70l box. Sorry for mixing english system with metric units....
GB
Did you remember the material thickness? Internal width doesn't matter for these purposes. That should be wide enough, but you could always add two side cheeks to build it out to ~18", or build a 70l box. Sorry for mixing english system with metric units....
GB
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.