Well I managed to grab a cheap pair of B1030A monitors so now I've got the tools for a panambio setup. I'm on Linux and am using the 4 channel Java transcoder from here: Four Channel Ambiophonic Transcoder and have got working 2 > 2 and 2 > 4 configurations with Pulseaudio. The 2 > 4 setup is a nice but subtle improvement in a sense of envelopment but I'm keen on getting the true 4 channel version working. I also have Windows 8.1 in a dual boot configuration so can focus on that first for testing purposes. The problem in both OSes seems to be finding a way to split a 4 channel mix down into 2 seperate and simultaneously running stereo outputs that can then be fed into the java app. On linux I can get them both running through seperate loopback devices but only one at a time. Windows has a stereo mix output but I'm not sure if I can have two at the same time from a 4 channel source. I suspect hardware output to input might be doable but possibly complex as well. There's also the 2 x miniAmbio solution but I'd rather avoid it for money reasons for now.
Managed to get it working with pure ALSA pretty easily after hours of trying with Pulseaudio. You just need the snd-aloop module and a custom pcm device in .asoundrc like this: pcm.loopmulti { type multi; slaves.a.pcm "plughw:10,0"; slaves.a.channels 2; slaves.b.pcm "plughw:11,0"; slaves.b.channels 2; bindings.0.slave a; bindings.0.channel 0; bindings.1.slave a; bindings.1.channel 1; bindings.2.slave b; bindings.2.channel 0; bindings.3.slave b; bindings.3.channel 1; } The slave pcm device names will vary based on how it's configured/number of soundcards etc. Can probably just use hw instead of plughw since I believe in newer versions of ALSA they are the same thing (plughw allows resampling etc) After that it's just a matter of having mpv/mplayer use a 4 channel layout and using the loopmulti pcm as the ALSA device. Then using the loopback capture PCMs (plughw:10,1 and plughw:11,1) as the inputs for the transcoder and pointing the outputs to seperate hardware outputs. On the last point I'm using separate soundcards but IIRC a single soundcard can be split into multiple stereo outputs which would work well for this configuration.
My front speakers (Sound Lab) are about 8 ft away and the rear speakers (a Sharp mini-compo front speakers) are fixed to the rear wall about 2 ft from my head. They are fixed about 4ft just above my head facing towards my head as described by you.
There is no adverse effect and in many of the DBT where the participants were unaware of Ambiophonics or the existence of rear speakers always preferred with the rear speakers turned on.
I don't remember the exact volume but it is around 6dB lower than the front.
tried on PC speakers, compared some ambio/non-ambio demo of the same track, in normal stereo triangle and 15-20 degrees for ambio.
For one man nearfield monitor ambio won without any doubts.
main speakers set up I listen with no PC in set up, but with hard drive palyer to read flacs and wavs. Is there simple and accurate way to convert normal flac/wavs for ambio files and than to listed with speaker set up 20 degree? It should be the way to go away from the soft and PC.
Also saw in thet topic some one experiance to put L and R speakers to the sides,180 degree, eliminating such cross talk cancell.
Did anyone try this way but with adding Center speaker? In matrix according to Elias?
For one man nearfield monitor ambio won without any doubts.
main speakers set up I listen with no PC in set up, but with hard drive palyer to read flacs and wavs. Is there simple and accurate way to convert normal flac/wavs for ambio files and than to listed with speaker set up 20 degree? It should be the way to go away from the soft and PC.
Also saw in thet topic some one experiance to put L and R speakers to the sides,180 degree, eliminating such cross talk cancell.
Did anyone try this way but with adding Center speaker? In matrix according to Elias?
No! You do not need to convert any files to ambio. You can use the free plugins with JRiver or Foobar. Alternatively, you can use the little hardware know as Miniambio to be connected after your source. Mine is connected after the preamplifie before the amplifiers. I use two of them; one for the front speakers and another one for the rear.
You don't need to convert the files. The demo files were preprocessed with Ambiophonics settings. I use SACD player more than my pc and by connecting miniAmbio via the RCA of preamplifier output I need not do anything. It is just simple plug and play gadget. Miniambio is made by the same company that makes Minidsp and DIrac. Please vist Ambiophonics.org and ambio4you.com for more explanation.
Please feel free to PM me if need more help.
Cheers!
Please feel free to PM me if need more help.
Cheers!
Soon I can get fulrrne driver with two coils - can put L to one coil, R to another.
Usually you try to put speakers side by side, here you can lock all things on one speaker.
But r+l will be summed properly only where all signal of R and L is in phase.
Who can advisу: фfter normal tracks are processed for ambio - is there some data not in phase?
Usually you try to put speakers side by side, here you can lock all things on one speaker.
But r+l will be summed properly only where all signal of R and L is in phase.
Who can advisу: фfter normal tracks are processed for ambio - is there some data not in phase?
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Ambiophonics doesnt involve any decoding. You just put the speakers closer to form 20 to 30 degrees and use a divider to between them to your head. That's how I experimented it anyway. I was using the mattress. The idea is to prevent the sound from the opposite speaker reaching your hear.
Later, R.A.C.E was developed so that you can use the same setup without the physical barrier. I am not sure how you are going to achieve with "fulrrne driver with two coils".
I hope Mr. Ralph Glasgal would chime in with a better explanation.
Cheers!
I am delighted that there is now so much activity in the Ambiophonic world. There are lots of similar products and programs now from BACCH (Princeton) Ambidio, (NYU) Soundpimp, Neutron MP, miniambio, etc.
The basic program RACE (Recursive Ambiophonic Crosstalk Eliminator) is just a mathematical formula that cancels the left speaker signal from reaching the right ear by sending the proper signal from the right speaker to actually cancel the left energy as it reaches the right ear. Then the process is repeated to prevent the cancellation from impacting the left ear and so on to inaudibility. Obviously if the cancellation is perfect then there can be no change in frequency response at either ear, and there is no delay involved.
Think of this as headphones implemented with loudspeakers. Headphones have no crosstalk and introduce no response or delay changes and neither does RACE. If RACE is not implemented perfectly then you have a mixture of Ambio and stereo. Since stereo has combing and changes delays and interaural level differences you would then have some response distortion, but that is why the stereo loudspeaker triangle is not a good high end reproduction option.
Those of you trying to do RACE with Windows, might consider using AudioMulch or a similar DAW and configuring RACE as shown in the PC tab of the Ambiophonic.org website.
Ralph Glasgal
The basic program RACE (Recursive Ambiophonic Crosstalk Eliminator) is just a mathematical formula that cancels the left speaker signal from reaching the right ear by sending the proper signal from the right speaker to actually cancel the left energy as it reaches the right ear. Then the process is repeated to prevent the cancellation from impacting the left ear and so on to inaudibility. Obviously if the cancellation is perfect then there can be no change in frequency response at either ear, and there is no delay involved.
Think of this as headphones implemented with loudspeakers. Headphones have no crosstalk and introduce no response or delay changes and neither does RACE. If RACE is not implemented perfectly then you have a mixture of Ambio and stereo. Since stereo has combing and changes delays and interaural level differences you would then have some response distortion, but that is why the stereo loudspeaker triangle is not a good high end reproduction option.
Those of you trying to do RACE with Windows, might consider using AudioMulch or a similar DAW and configuring RACE as shown in the PC tab of the Ambiophonic.org website.
Ralph Glasgal
If you put the left and right signals with or without RACE processing into two coils driving a single speaker cone you will get plain mono. The extra RACE samples are really just exact replicas of the original signal samples with alternating polarities so they will cancel in the voice coil and you just have the sum of the left and right originals coming from the one cone which is monophonic reproduction.
In the past there have been speakers, POLk, OWL that had crosstalk cancellation properties but they were not recursive and so did not survive and become popular. Same with Sonic Holography and other early XTC systems.
Ralph Glasgal
In the past there have been speakers, POLk, OWL that had crosstalk cancellation properties but they were not recursive and so did not survive and become popular. Same with Sonic Holography and other early XTC systems.
Ralph Glasgal
its offtop here, I just plan second mono set up for egoist)) (me) with R+L on dual voice coil. In process of thinking around I thought: "what IF" I supply ambio processed file to that set up. My consideration was that nothing will happen and I will have the same mono, but I wanted to reconfirm with those, who are involved in all these ambio staff.