I think,
The important thing is to remember life is happening now its not a rehearsal..
We tend to think we have a longer time with good health and it can come as a shock to find we are mortal and life without being healthy enough to do what you want to could be a problem..
The number of times I have seen people hang in there until they are forced out of work by bad health..Then say I didn't expect this to happen. I have all the time in the world and the money and can't do anything now.
The problem is always how much do I need to retire and not being able to see what the future holds..
Someone said to me yesterday," You know I should be envious of people younger than me with the extra years they have. And I don't envy them one bit..life is just going to be work, work , work, with more and more pressure..I'm glad I will be getting out in the next couple of years..
OK some people like their job thats great, however its nice to have the option.
Regards
M. Gregg
The important thing is to remember life is happening now its not a rehearsal..
We tend to think we have a longer time with good health and it can come as a shock to find we are mortal and life without being healthy enough to do what you want to could be a problem..
The number of times I have seen people hang in there until they are forced out of work by bad health..Then say I didn't expect this to happen. I have all the time in the world and the money and can't do anything now.
The problem is always how much do I need to retire and not being able to see what the future holds..
Someone said to me yesterday," You know I should be envious of people younger than me with the extra years they have. And I don't envy them one bit..life is just going to be work, work , work, with more and more pressure..I'm glad I will be getting out in the next couple of years..
OK some people like their job thats great, however its nice to have the option.
Regards
M. Gregg
It should be mandatory that us old guys teach the young ones!
And have to listen to the, when I was young, stories!
Yup, then I would not be bored!
And turn on your new amp design you put together with alligator clips, not realizing it will smoke up the room cause one fell off the power supply!
I couldn't afford bread boards!
Ya, that!
Retire? Never!
And have to listen to the, when I was young, stories!
Yup, then I would not be bored!
And turn on your new amp design you put together with alligator clips, not realizing it will smoke up the room cause one fell off the power supply!
I couldn't afford bread boards!
Ya, that!
Retire? Never!
I used to think like this,
I now know its OK for things like DIY audio..However the old skills don't always translate over..An example...in electrical engineering the "Old guys" Often have all the hand skills, however they can't get there heads around the new regulations (one reason why some retire). And what was OK in the Old days is not OK now..There are many more examples..Including getting the Qualifications to teach is often beyond our ability..I'm not saying everyone...
Regards
M. Gregg
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been doing that for 17 years now...
...problem is staying ahead of the curve, if you grasp my meaning
I was a homebrewer for fourty years plus. I quit about four years ago. Problem was I liked to brew, and I was the only one drinking it. In order to brew I had to empty a couple of kegs....
I had 22 kegs and 16 fermenters at one time. Yea, kind of excessive.
People don't realize that the elderly were typically so poor before Social Security and Medicare that they had to live with family until they died. No one wants to be a burden on their children and the advent of independence for the elderly allowed their children to prosper.
The "DIY retirement" 401(k) systems put into place in the 1980's have been deemed a failure by many experts in the field. Expecting ordinary middle class people to know, or be able to learn, how to invest wisely is a complete farce and unrealistic. It is a system that is extremely biased towards those who can afford to hire expert advice on investment for retirement. It appears that the only system that really works is forced savings through automatic payroll deductions, either public or private. There are millions of people who are forced to work until way past the normal retirement age, and this is a further burden on the younger people because those jobs are unavailable to them. More deductions should have been demanded of the Baby Boom generation because they have also become a huge burden on the young because there are far fewer of them to support the Boomers. It's been poor planning all around in my opinion.
The "DIY retirement" 401(k) systems put into place in the 1980's have been deemed a failure by many experts in the field. Expecting ordinary middle class people to know, or be able to learn, how to invest wisely is a complete farce and unrealistic. It is a system that is extremely biased towards those who can afford to hire expert advice on investment for retirement. It appears that the only system that really works is forced savings through automatic payroll deductions, either public or private. There are millions of people who are forced to work until way past the normal retirement age, and this is a further burden on the younger people because those jobs are unavailable to them. More deductions should have been demanded of the Baby Boom generation because they have also become a huge burden on the young because there are far fewer of them to support the Boomers. It's been poor planning all around in my opinion.
Been thinking about this lately myself ... early retirement. I've got over 35years in the same trade ... and most likely sort-of worn out The industry is in a big slump right now anyway .. and sometimes I feel like I'm more "in the way" of some of the younger men trying to make a good life for them and theirs. As with every generation you see things change from when you started on the road .. and for the most part those changes suck. Dumbing down of the trade is a big concern. Skills are being set aside for profit margins ... quality workmanship is heading for the door. Tough to watch.
... but family history of health issues loom large as well. Uncle/dad/younger brother all bought it early .... same issue. Gets a guy to thinking that it would be nice to kick back a little until something stupid happens. The wife is set either way.
The industry is in a big slump right now anyway .. and sometimes I feel like I'm more "in the way" of some of the younger men trying to make a good life for them and theirs. As with every generation you see things change from when you started on the road .. and for the most part those changes suck. Dumbing down of the trade is a big concern. Skills are being set aside for profit margins ... quality workmanship is heading for the door. Tough to watch. ... but family history of health issues loom large as well. Uncle/dad/younger brother all bought it early .... same issue. Gets a guy to thinking that it would be nice to kick back a little until something stupid happens. The wife is set either way.
The idea that elderly should retire to give room for the younger, is totally wrong all the way. Everyone has an equal right to a job, old or young. The fact that some or more have a pension to fall back on, really has nothing to do with it. Having a job to go to is as much about social contact as it is about work.
The real problem is the lack of jobs, for several reasons - economic, political and so on.
The eternal quest for even more profit is also a major part of it, but it is also a fact that all companies have to make a profit. In other fora I frequent, I see there is a lot of fuzz about buying US made tools, and not sending the money to China....... but this is all about our beloved market economy in practice. Market economist say that in ten years, chinese wages will be a par with western economies.... where will production go then?
As for pensions, a large part of Europe have a totally different scenario than the US.
When I retire, maybe about 7 years from now ( at 67), if health holds, I have earned a pension that is set as 67% of my final salary, but then I have been paying 2% of my gross income from the day I started work.
The real problem is the lack of jobs, for several reasons - economic, political and so on.
The eternal quest for even more profit is also a major part of it, but it is also a fact that all companies have to make a profit. In other fora I frequent, I see there is a lot of fuzz about buying US made tools, and not sending the money to China....... but this is all about our beloved market economy in practice. Market economist say that in ten years, chinese wages will be a par with western economies.... where will production go then?
As for pensions, a large part of Europe have a totally different scenario than the US.
When I retire, maybe about 7 years from now ( at 67), if health holds, I have earned a pension that is set as 67% of my final salary, but then I have been paying 2% of my gross income from the day I started work.
That is indeed quite different. We contribute a higher amount throughout our work lives to a mandatory "retirement" account and get back far less.
Ouch.. I forgot to say that the employers also have to contribute a not insignifican part.... that's part of the salary expenses when you have employees. This used to be either a volunterly arrangement, - mandatory though for all public service, but in a national revision a couple of years ago our parliament decided that all employees should have a pension arrangement, paid by the employer as part of the salary. Public employees still pay their extra 2% though....
In the UK,
You pay all your working life into the state pension and get paid approx a fifth of final salary..Of corse it then depends if you have a company pension some people don't and that can be restricted (when you can take it) by retirement ages ie 66(if you make it)..so its down to investing for yourself.(If you can)
The above is based upon UK average earnings..
Regards
M. Gregg
You pay all your working life into the state pension and get paid approx a fifth of final salary
..Of corse it then depends if you have a company pension some people don't and that can be restricted (when you can take it) by retirement ages ie 66(if you make it)..so its down to investing for yourself.(If you can)The above is based upon UK average earnings..
Regards
M. Gregg
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The other problem,
Is that most people can't spend 20 or 25 years in a job redundancy etc or firm closures..
So many people are changing jobs on a regular basis (maybe every 5 years) and can't build up a decent pension..under these circumstances company pensions again fall short so private may be a way forward..
Alot of people if they lose their job at or just above age 50 they can't even get another one so pension is locked..and they have to live on what they have saved for the time until age 66.
Regards
M. Gregg
Is that most people can't spend 20 or 25 years in a job redundancy etc or firm closures..
So many people are changing jobs on a regular basis (maybe every 5 years) and can't build up a decent pension..under these circumstances company pensions again fall short so private may be a way forward..
Alot of people if they lose their job at or just above age 50 they can't even get another one so pension is locked..and they have to live on what they have saved for the time until age 66.
Regards
M. Gregg
You certainly have some points there...particularly for those over 50 whoe get redundant. We do have somewhat of the same problem here, even for people with a masters degree, but then our unemployment figures are extremely low in an international perspective, - around 3%.
In a historical perspective, pensions here in Norway have been either official pension funds for public employees, or through insurance pensions for the larger private companies. But still, for quite a number of years, insurance pensions have been either coordinated, or accumulated, meaning your funds were either transferred to one insurance company, or you got several payments from different policies. We also have a public system known as "peoples pension" ( direct translation), valid for all persons with a taxable income, where you earn "points" each year according to income, but then all taxable income is taxed with a flat rate premium of 7.8% of gross income. This supposedly pays for the public pension, free healtcare, hospitals and any seriously necesseary medication.
I was part of the civil service system for may years, as scientific officer in one of our research councils, but in the very late 80s, the co- I work for was reorganised as a government owned share holding co... and thus officially concidered a private company, even if the state holds 90% of the shares.
This means that my pension ( if I get there!) will have at least 3 sources - public pension, state pension and pension insurance.
In a historical perspective, pensions here in Norway have been either official pension funds for public employees, or through insurance pensions for the larger private companies. But still, for quite a number of years, insurance pensions have been either coordinated, or accumulated, meaning your funds were either transferred to one insurance company, or you got several payments from different policies. We also have a public system known as "peoples pension" ( direct translation), valid for all persons with a taxable income, where you earn "points" each year according to income, but then all taxable income is taxed with a flat rate premium of 7.8% of gross income. This supposedly pays for the public pension, free healtcare, hospitals and any seriously necesseary medication.
I was part of the civil service system for may years, as scientific officer in one of our research councils, but in the very late 80s, the co- I work for was reorganised as a government owned share holding co... and thus officially concidered a private company, even if the state holds 90% of the shares.
This means that my pension ( if I get there!) will have at least 3 sources - public pension, state pension and pension insurance.
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There have,
been quite a few instances of people being made redundant and they couldn't take their pension due to minimum retirement dates being moved further up the age bracket. After a few years of struggling to get a job there previous company whent bust (closes) and they lost their pension.
There is a pension protection system in place in the UK now however I don't know how effective it is..
I know they are having increasing claims which might crash the protection system due to funding problems. (Demand for cash and company closures).
Regards
M. Gregg
been quite a few instances of people being made redundant and they couldn't take their pension due to minimum retirement dates being moved further up the age bracket. After a few years of struggling to get a job there previous company whent bust (closes) and they lost their pension.
There is a pension protection system in place in the UK now however I don't know how effective it is..
I know they are having increasing claims which might crash the protection system due to funding problems. (Demand for cash and company closures).
Regards
M. Gregg
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Joined 2009
Paid Member
Perhaps going from working flat out to not working makes the most sense for people working for the majority of their time in physically, dangerous or mentally stressful occupations, and in the past inferior health care and dodgy nutrition meant that retirement was a life saver and many people must have dreamed of 'getting out'. But as the developed world heads towards better working environments this doesn't make sense anymore.
I know people interested in taking reduced hours, moving to 'an easier' job or opting for longer periods of absence rather than going cold-turkey home-retirement. One of the challenges is that this isn't easy for employers to accommodate without change - paying a salary is only half the story - there are overhead expenses, facilities/office space costs, the need for people to be available to respond quickly to work problems (i.e. they need to be around) of for continuity of projects (i.e. no long breaks) etc. When there's somebody else who's willing to do your job for a little less money and no flexibility then the current situation tends to propagate onwards. But I'm hoping that over time this will change and more and more employers will recognize the benefits that experience (i.e. older people) can bring and make an effort to set up ways that allow people to stay engaged with the workforce to the mutual benefit of everyone. Perhaps there is scope for government legislation that helps employers with such flexibility, making it less onerous on employers without leaving vulnerable people exposed. Or enabling people to participate more at schools and colleges to pass on their knowledge without steep qualification requirements (i.e. acting to support fully trained full time teachers).
I see it starting already - people become 'consultants' and my employer has kept a couple of experienced people on part time.
p.s. I opted out of the UK pension scheme when I was in my 20's but I don't know if it was the best decision.
I know people interested in taking reduced hours, moving to 'an easier' job or opting for longer periods of absence rather than going cold-turkey home-retirement. One of the challenges is that this isn't easy for employers to accommodate without change - paying a salary is only half the story - there are overhead expenses, facilities/office space costs, the need for people to be available to respond quickly to work problems (i.e. they need to be around) of for continuity of projects (i.e. no long breaks) etc. When there's somebody else who's willing to do your job for a little less money and no flexibility then the current situation tends to propagate onwards. But I'm hoping that over time this will change and more and more employers will recognize the benefits that experience (i.e. older people) can bring and make an effort to set up ways that allow people to stay engaged with the workforce to the mutual benefit of everyone. Perhaps there is scope for government legislation that helps employers with such flexibility, making it less onerous on employers without leaving vulnerable people exposed. Or enabling people to participate more at schools and colleges to pass on their knowledge without steep qualification requirements (i.e. acting to support fully trained full time teachers).
I see it starting already - people become 'consultants' and my employer has kept a couple of experienced people on part time.
p.s. I opted out of the UK pension scheme when I was in my 20's but I don't know if it was the best decision.
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I was an Electronic Engineering Tech for most of 20 years. I was effectively forced into retirement at age 46, due to so much of our industry moving offshore. I went back to school after the 3rd layoff and tried to build another career (as a Paralegal), but that didn't work. I then got busy with my hobby of audio electronics and researched, designed and built several guitar amps and some very high end open baffle triamp'd hi-fi speakers. It gave me purpose and physical exercise and a way to collaborate with other laid off old electronic friends. It has acted as a therapy too. Better than a shrink. I had way too much knowledge to just throw it all away and call the career done. I had to sell my house to have money to live on and do projects with. I thought it might lead to a business of my own. Now I'm 57 and doubt if any conventional job would hire me, because statistics say that I'll be slow, miss more time at work due to health problems, and expect more pay. I also may not fit in socially with the younger crowd (which apparently likes sh*t music - rap- hip-hop - etc.). But also because I'm now "old school". I'm real good at what electronics was like back in the 1980's... and I don't know any software engineering so I can't design microcomputer controlled anything, and now leaded parts are drying up (smd's are the new standard), so it's getting harder to produce anything with consistency over time. I keep noticing that China is producing stuff way cheaper than the cost of parts alone... I may end up playing guitar on a street corner with an inverted hat in front of me... When you've put everything you've got into a career that changes or moves offshore to where labor rates are much lower, it's much harder to rebuild at my age than I ever would have thought. I may be living on the street in a few years.
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Bob, I never had an expectation that I'd still be doing today what I did early in my career - in fact I hoped to do different things during my life. Leave the SMD boards to the Chinese, the Mexicans, whoever, it's become a commodity and now these things can be stamped out quickly and reliably. Surely your skills go much deeper. You can design, evaluate/test your designs and with modern quick-turn fabrication along with much better design tools you can create better things today than you could before.
Whilst the young guys are flexible in learning new stuff, like you were back then, they lack things you now have. You know how to assess project risks, how to communicate with others, how to present your ideas and your work, how to interact with others and gain respect and how to collaborate. You have the emotional maturity they won't have for a decade or two. And so what if you need to learn some new skills, you are plenty young enough to do so. The CEO of the Company I work for is in his 70's and sharp as a knife.
When you were a kid, did your parents think your music was sh*t ? - probably
Wasn't it Henry Ford who said "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right."
Whilst the young guys are flexible in learning new stuff, like you were back then, they lack things you now have. You know how to assess project risks, how to communicate with others, how to present your ideas and your work, how to interact with others and gain respect and how to collaborate. You have the emotional maturity they won't have for a decade or two. And so what if you need to learn some new skills, you are plenty young enough to do so. The CEO of the Company I work for is in his 70's and sharp as a knife.
When you were a kid, did your parents think your music was sh*t ? - probably
Wasn't it Henry Ford who said "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right."
It seems that most US companies now days are moving from pension to 401K retirement.
They contribute an amount to the 401K each year, and the employee has the option of contributing in addition.
One advantage of this system is when one changes jobs, it is possible to transfer one's 401K to the new job 401K.
The problem in this system is when the hiring company requires the 401K to be in company stock.
Stock tanks, retirement gone.
Better companies offer multiple investment options within their 401K.
They contribute an amount to the 401K each year, and the employee has the option of contributing in addition.
One advantage of this system is when one changes jobs, it is possible to transfer one's 401K to the new job 401K.
The problem in this system is when the hiring company requires the 401K to be in company stock.
Stock tanks, retirement gone.
Better companies offer multiple investment options within their 401K.
I think you're referring to Social Security, is that right? If so, I agree.
Since I'm on the old civil service retirement system, I do not receive SS when I retire, but I do have a defined benefits package similar to what they get in Europe.
One advantage of the European system (or at least the Swedish one) is that it is not tied to your job. You do not loose your retirement if you change jobs. Imagine how many people would be free to move to a job they liked here in America if their retirement system was completely portable. I suppose that was part of the idea behind the 401(k) system. Also, in Europe, your spouse cannot claim your retirement as a marital asset in a divorce. They can and do here in America, making for a lot of unhappy people here.