huh? the issue has nothing at all to do with SMPS or not, in fact this function is not something found on any other SMPS; however it is an issue inherent in ANY feedback system; feed it 2 inputs you cant expect it to make a single output track 2 targets. if you made a linear regulated supply with tracking it would have exactly the same problem, because the 'problem' is an integral part of an advantage
I never heard of or experienced problems with regulated or non-regulated linear supplies at start-up, so I wonder if SMPS's are more difficult in this regard. I suggested a standby switch to overcome the high bias problem but there was no reaction.
It should be possible to connect two amps to one SMPS, or?
I can understand the bias current issue; however, the idea of "tracking 2 inputs" makes no sense to me. If you split the output of the PS and send it to two amplifiers, from the point of view of the PS, it IS one signal (e.g. the combined L+R for example). It has no way of "knowing" there are two different amps after the output. You would of course be limited to the maximum current that the PS is capable of supplying, but other than that, how could 2 or 5 amplifiers make any difference downstream?
what? i dont think you guys understand still. seems a bit slow going for a crowd that present as being smarter tbh; how many times has this been explained? this is a regulated TRACKING feedback based output, it will adjust the output based on the dynamic needs of the load. if you connect to a LR you will be sending bursts of power that are correlated to a combined MONO signal, it will be meaningless to the singular loads. this problem would be made even worse in a bass/mid-high split, because the bass may be requyiring sustained and very high current burts while the highs are doing very little and vice versa.
if you dont understand that i give up
i believe its mainly the problem of extending a feedback loop around 2 different loads and expect it to keep track. you cannot do it with an opamp, you cannot do it here
if you dont understand that i give up
i believe its mainly the problem of extending a feedback loop around 2 different loads and expect it to keep track. you cannot do it with an opamp, you cannot do it here
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I do understand, but it should be clear that it is a special property of AP2's SMPS.
With "normal" power supplies (linear or SM, regulated or not) it would not be an issue.
what? is that not clear to you still? weve been talking about that and that only for the last 10 pages or so. i really must remember nolt to feed the....
Well, it seems you need some rest
It is clear to me, but maybe not to others (floridabear?), and it makes sense to know what the different PS options are up to when planning (and spending..).
i know that is not simple accepted that this dps-600 can offer good audiophile performances if connected at one amp instead of two.(only this)
it run clean on two amp, in this case voltage output decrease up to 10V as other smps under burst. and only 3v at 500w burst when supply one amp.
Opc have one dps-600, reduce bias and supply two amps please.
The problem is not the watts output, but the dynamic of sound.
I sometimes wonder how you ever add up to 100,000 uf at the output transformer, (linear), and when it comes to SMPS .. it seems this problem does not exist.
DPS-600 have this performances, obtain with fast response (150nS) this need a precise ultra fast circuit (not simple chip for smps) and play in intersect of signals. while charge one caps, other disharge on trafo. a random current request or in both rail (bridge) reduce this time.
or , How can I get this, with only 270uF capacitors in high voltage cell? (i see other poor smps have 1500uF)?
it run clean on two amp, in this case voltage output decrease up to 10V as other smps under burst. and only 3v at 500w burst when supply one amp.
Opc have one dps-600, reduce bias and supply two amps please.
The problem is not the watts output, but the dynamic of sound.
I sometimes wonder how you ever add up to 100,000 uf at the output transformer, (linear), and when it comes to SMPS .. it seems this problem does not exist.
DPS-600 have this performances, obtain with fast response (150nS) this need a precise ultra fast circuit (not simple chip for smps) and play in intersect of signals. while charge one caps, other disharge on trafo. a random current request or in both rail (bridge) reduce this time.
or , How can I get this, with only 270uF capacitors in high voltage cell? (i see other poor smps have 1500uF)?
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Pieter,
your actions are not constructive I think. you ask first, if this SMPS uses a new design or concept, to explain this behavior.
or maybe you love too much the transformer.
one thing is certain: if I have a high performance amplifier (just try the realism) and I know the sound, independent of the cost and space, I would never use a power supply for two amplifiers.
or would you like to do some looking amp the "state of the art" and then we put a SMPS for PA or lamps? what is sense of this?
sorry at all for my english...is note that is ..professional
your actions are not constructive I think. you ask first, if this SMPS uses a new design or concept, to explain this behavior.
or maybe you love too much the transformer.
one thing is certain: if I have a high performance amplifier (just try the realism) and I know the sound, independent of the cost and space, I would never use a power supply for two amplifiers.
or would you like to do some looking amp the "state of the art" and then we put a SMPS for PA or lamps? what is sense of this?
sorry at all for my english...is note that is ..professional
Roberto,
Don't understand me wrong; I am a complete novice in SMPS's.
I started to read a bit on the subject and found this:
Simple Dissipative Topologies -- Switching-Mode Power Supply Design
where series and shunt feedback power supplies are mentioned.
Because your SMPS is special I thought it might have something to do with a shunt concept, but apparently I am wrong.
Never mind.
Don't understand me wrong; I am a complete novice in SMPS's.
I started to read a bit on the subject and found this:
Simple Dissipative Topologies -- Switching-Mode Power Supply Design
where series and shunt feedback power supplies are mentioned.
Because your SMPS is special I thought it might have something to do with a shunt concept, but apparently I am wrong.
Never mind.
Thanks for all that info.
I've not seen the data sheet or schematic.
So the bottom line would appear to be that the 500 and 600 can track the load and maintain the voltage of more than one amplifier within it's feedback loop, with some penalty of extra voltage drop at high transient loads.
The obstacle is that of the bias current. This also rules out an 8 die output stage (2 pairs of double die alfets or 4 pairs of singles) that may be using, eg, 720mA? (I'm assuming OPC meant 180mA per pair (one N channel and one P channel) of dies?? I should have been making notes as the thread went along!)
So does this not say that the use of these special SMPS is limited to just the low to medium power amplifier using a singe pair of Alfets, as in the original "The Wire" PCB design? To be fair, that's what most of the buyers of this project perhaps have in mind. But two SMPS have to used even for that which does move it a little way from an economy budget amp.
But those who are thinking bigger and who are already with low efficiency big stereo full range speakers who've been following this SMPS idea are going to have to be disappointed and go without and stick to the inferior old way of doing things.
Even for my active cross over'd bass and treble plan, I'd be using 8 single die devices per amplifier (per speaker) so even if I bought four of the 600's, that wouldn't do it unless I ran lower that Owens recommended minimum bias.
The vendor is the person who benefits from the SMPS having these shortfalls as those people who are making a multi way AV amp will have to by 6 to 10 expensive SMPS instead of one or two (slightly more?) expensive bigger ones.
Unless the limited bias issue can be overcome?
I would really like it if these SMPS are better that even the decent linear supplies I use and doubly especially if they nullify all the excesses we have to go to with the mains supply to get the sound quality so we can then use a kettle lead and a naff wall socket; that would be most welcome. Though my PC (that operates my sound card) uses a Seasonic X400 SMPS and still benefits massively from a 10mm2 mains cable to the super spur and also from the PC chassis being tied separately to a good earth, and I care not a rats a*se biscuit for the BS from those people with no experience who choose to follow the figments of their imagination and talk down to, rather that take notice of, the practical realities that many many experienced people know so well.
I've not seen the data sheet or schematic.
So the bottom line would appear to be that the 500 and 600 can track the load and maintain the voltage of more than one amplifier within it's feedback loop, with some penalty of extra voltage drop at high transient loads.
The obstacle is that of the bias current. This also rules out an 8 die output stage (2 pairs of double die alfets or 4 pairs of singles) that may be using, eg, 720mA? (I'm assuming OPC meant 180mA per pair (one N channel and one P channel) of dies?? I should have been making notes as the thread went along!)
So does this not say that the use of these special SMPS is limited to just the low to medium power amplifier using a singe pair of Alfets, as in the original "The Wire" PCB design? To be fair, that's what most of the buyers of this project perhaps have in mind. But two SMPS have to used even for that which does move it a little way from an economy budget amp.
But those who are thinking bigger and who are already with low efficiency big stereo full range speakers who've been following this SMPS idea are going to have to be disappointed and go without and stick to the inferior old way of doing things.
Even for my active cross over'd bass and treble plan, I'd be using 8 single die devices per amplifier (per speaker) so even if I bought four of the 600's, that wouldn't do it unless I ran lower that Owens recommended minimum bias.
The vendor is the person who benefits from the SMPS having these shortfalls as those people who are making a multi way AV amp will have to by 6 to 10 expensive SMPS instead of one or two (slightly more?) expensive bigger ones.
Unless the limited bias issue can be overcome?
I would really like it if these SMPS are better that even the decent linear supplies I use and doubly especially if they nullify all the excesses we have to go to with the mains supply to get the sound quality so we can then use a kettle lead and a naff wall socket; that would be most welcome. Though my PC (that operates my sound card) uses a Seasonic X400 SMPS and still benefits massively from a 10mm2 mains cable to the super spur and also from the PC chassis being tied separately to a good earth, and I care not a rats a*se biscuit for the BS from those people with no experience who choose to follow the figments of their imagination and talk down to, rather that take notice of, the practical realities that many many experienced people know so well.
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