This is what I meant, but instead I said L-C-R... Although that could work for a soundbar type thing. I like this idea, just for the simplicity. Elias' your methods seem good, up to the point where my understanding of the subject falls short. I guess id just like a simple passive system.
Really ? Then you should try this
Elias Pekonen Home Page - Stereophonic Sound from a Single Speaker
- Elias
Ok, do I delay the summed center to achieve time coherence with the L+R?
And will this configuration solve the way to diffused soundfield?
I would hate to invest in 25 more drivers and be disappointed.
Of course if I delay center than it would only be in phase with the reflected HF.
Time to ask yourself a question: Why a side image would need to be in time coherence with a center image ?
In the original sound event they are not in time coherence, unless all the performers are located in a circular arch surrounding you which is highly unlikely.
I'm not sure about this one Elias.
If it's a live recording and there are spot mic's across the stage then I see your point.
If it's a 2 mic recording or M/S of a live event then that time difference is already accounted for.
Studio recordings, well. They are usually close mic'd. So, the drums are always across the whole stage as well as piano. I guess any large instrument takes up the whole stage if close mic'd.
Also with matrix aren't center sounds coming through R+L also?
If it's a live recording and there are spot mic's across the stage then I see your point.
If it's a 2 mic recording or M/S of a live event then that time difference is already accounted for.
Studio recordings, well. They are usually close mic'd. So, the drums are always across the whole stage as well as piano. I guess any large instrument takes up the whole stage if close mic'd.
Also with matrix aren't center sounds coming through R+L also?
sure, but...........
3 x 3.5" may not cut it.
Maybe 4 x 3" per line (left, center, right), that be what, Sd = 6.5" ?
That way you don't have to buy any more drivers
I'm not really sure.
I see that a delay may be fine for the sides (maybe 3-4mS) versus the straight direct center sound.
But you are right, it should already be mixed in.
Didn't Ralph from ambiophonics have all sorts of speakers around then you set delays based on what hall you wanted to be in ?
Who knows.
But I do know that 3 loudspeakers across the front with center as L+R, was commented on being able to turn your head a bit to zoom in on different things, like a cocktail party zooming in on different conversations. I have zero experience, but I do trust the ears that said that.
Passive L+R is tricky because of changing impedences.
But as I learned from Home Theater, have the exact same speaker left, center and right, and ideally the rears same as the front if you can swing it.
Norman
3 x 3.5" may not cut it.
Maybe 4 x 3" per line (left, center, right), that be what, Sd = 6.5" ?
That way you don't have to buy any more drivers
I'm not really sure.
I see that a delay may be fine for the sides (maybe 3-4mS) versus the straight direct center sound.
But you are right, it should already be mixed in.
Didn't Ralph from ambiophonics have all sorts of speakers around then you set delays based on what hall you wanted to be in ?
Who knows.
But I do know that 3 loudspeakers across the front with center as L+R, was commented on being able to turn your head a bit to zoom in on different things, like a cocktail party zooming in on different conversations. I have zero experience, but I do trust the ears that said that.
Passive L+R is tricky because of changing impedences.
But as I learned from Home Theater, have the exact same speaker left, center and right, and ideally the rears same as the front if you can swing it.
Norman
Hey Jon...
in Ralph's set up, those surround speakers are for synthesized hall ambiance.
With the matrix approach, what comes out of sides vs. center is frequency dependent.
all high frequencies come from the sides but the mids and low-mids come from center.
Thats why I don't understand Elias' explanation about it being ok to have a delay, The only thing that gets delayed is high frequencies and I don't think it matters whether it comes from the center in the mix or the side, All high frequencies will come from the sides with a delay.
Also, I think this would give a rather large presentation of center images. They would seem as wide as your walls are.
Of course i'm not sure how this all works out psychoacoustically, which is why i'm willing to try it, just not with 25 more drivers.
in Ralph's set up, those surround speakers are for synthesized hall ambiance.
With the matrix approach, what comes out of sides vs. center is frequency dependent.
all high frequencies come from the sides but the mids and low-mids come from center.
Thats why I don't understand Elias' explanation about it being ok to have a delay, The only thing that gets delayed is high frequencies and I don't think it matters whether it comes from the center in the mix or the side, All high frequencies will come from the sides with a delay.
Also, I think this would give a rather large presentation of center images. They would seem as wide as your walls are.
Of course i'm not sure how this all works out psychoacoustically, which is why i'm willing to try it, just not with 25 more drivers.
I don't know.
But you might !!!!!
The slight delay due to left/right taking longer to hit the wall then get to your ear (compared to the center speaker) may not be offensive to the ears. Your ears might even like it better than all of it hitting your ears at the same time. And who knows how far out a left image will place.
We like our music's echos to match our room. To me by involving the room more, your ears have an easier time saying "yes, that's what it would sound like in this room". Zero reflections are nice, but when I tried 6" of foam on both side walls, the room was so dead, the music sounded worse.
I think the flooder plus center would be better than stereo triangle, but I doubt it would be better than the divider (man I loved the sound). And I think the RACE would be close to as good as the divider.
And new news on your binaural ?
Norman
But you might !!!!!
The slight delay due to left/right taking longer to hit the wall then get to your ear (compared to the center speaker) may not be offensive to the ears. Your ears might even like it better than all of it hitting your ears at the same time. And who knows how far out a left image will place.
We like our music's echos to match our room. To me by involving the room more, your ears have an easier time saying "yes, that's what it would sound like in this room". Zero reflections are nice, but when I tried 6" of foam on both side walls, the room was so dead, the music sounded worse.
I think the flooder plus center would be better than stereo triangle, but I doubt it would be better than the divider (man I loved the sound). And I think the RACE would be close to as good as the divider.
And new news on your binaural ?
Norman
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Really ? Then you should try this
Elias Pekonen Home Page - Stereophonic Sound from a Single Speaker
- Elias
Ah. I was talking about that thread. My mistake, again, I thought that was an active design requiring small delays. I really should pay attention
Earlier I was suggesting this having 3 lines, since you have 50 drivers:
But you were seeing nightmares
So here I'm trying to convince
- Elias
You could put 16+16+16 drivers into a SSS matrix
No need for a BSC.
But you were seeing nightmares
That sounds like a wiring nightmare
I was just going to put the mini-ambio on it.
But you can convince me of the matrix approach if you want
I'm not experienced with it.
So here I'm trying to convince
- Elias
Haha!
I actually did have a nightmare about wiring that SOB!
You suggested I do that, yes......but then you never responded.
Now that I've built the durn thing, you are trying to convince me!
Why I aughta......(I'm shaking my fist)
You could be the first on this planet to try matrixed line array. Glory be to the brave
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