This is where open baffles fail for me. Moving the back of the speaker cabinet back a meter and calling it a wall makes the reflections more delayed and sound like separate sources to me, imaging falls apart and it sounds a mess
I think some people are more sensitive to early reflections, like from the back panel of a speaker cabinet, and some are more sensitive to later reflections from a wall
Brian
I suppose I should know having listened to box speakers for half my life and currently ESLs for the past 10 years. Definitely different. However I don't sense that mid range character in the vid. Mind you they are full range ESLs. The only way I can describe the difference is the ESLs throw a bigger, fuller sound stage. Not as punchy. Bottom end needs help with sub woofers.
So you dont like that "larger, ethereal" aspect where he's saying the midrange's back wave reflects off the wall and comes back in phase (somehow). You like your mids radiating from a specific location, rather than from some much broader area.
Sometimes I wonder if anyone has built the most impractical speaker in the world, where the back of the baffle radiates out-doors. Yes, the neighbors can hear everything you play, but there's nothing reflecting back through the cone (except perhaps a irate shotgun blast...) and no back wave reflections bouncing about in the listening space, because those all go outside of the home walls and not as much SPLs pushing on any cabinet walls as there would be in containment.
I have to believe the type of speaker used depends on the type of recordings listened to. Some recordings you dont want your space on top of the space where the recording was made; you want it to sound like you're there. Some recordings you want it to sound like the musicians are there in your space and there is no other recorded-in space that's necessary to try and reproduce as well with full fidelity.
Of course practically no one listens to just one type of recording, so...a compromise there.
Temporary instalaltions, permanent instaaltions usually use the next room as the enclosure.
dave
Back wave in open baffle gets diffused so much, and delayed more than tens of ms, that it never comes back (in phase) to coincide with front wave...that's just not happening. It just provides spaciousness.
On the other hand, side wall, floor and early reflections and diffraction are detrimental to the clarity of front wave. Because they arrive too close to be distinguished as separate.
On the other hand, side wall, floor and early reflections and diffraction are detrimental to the clarity of front wave. Because they arrive too close to be distinguished as separate.
Fun fact. All my best headphones are open back (hifiman, grado, sennheiser). When i listen late night on headphones, sometimes for fun i put palms of my hands behind the open back of headhones. When my hand if far, i do not hear the effect. When palm gets close enough, i start hearing the reflection, sound changing. If too close, it starts to sound like closed headphones. I do not like that. I sold my sony closed back headphones, just like ess, i did not like that boxy sound.
If some people preffer closed boxes or closed back headphones, its perfectly ok with me. We do not like the same cars, or movies, and that's perfectly fine. We are all different individuals.
If some people preffer closed boxes or closed back headphones, its perfectly ok with me. We do not like the same cars, or movies, and that's perfectly fine. We are all different individuals.
They looks like these things to me:
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For the last few years when I did demos at audio shows, a lot of visitors asked me, "What is the full range of the speaker? How high and low can it go?"
To be honest, I hate answering this type of question. Instead of focusing only on the objective measurements, I think it is best to experience the speaker itself. Appreciating sound is relative to the listener. There are subjective features that require evaluation. Some people enjoy distortion, others not.
No instrument can measure emotion or the airiness of music. It is a subjective experience.
Emotionally moving music is two-way communication. The music will touch your inner heart, and there is some type of chemical reaction in response within you to engage with the singer. It is like an echo. This is why when you are listening to some types of emotionally moving music, it will touch you, move you, and make you cry...
To be honest, I hate answering this type of question. Instead of focusing only on the objective measurements, I think it is best to experience the speaker itself. Appreciating sound is relative to the listener. There are subjective features that require evaluation. Some people enjoy distortion, others not.
No instrument can measure emotion or the airiness of music. It is a subjective experience.
Emotionally moving music is two-way communication. The music will touch your inner heart, and there is some type of chemical reaction in response within you to engage with the singer. It is like an echo. This is why when you are listening to some types of emotionally moving music, it will touch you, move you, and make you cry...
The "Real Reason" is the radiation pattern. Boxy sound is just an artifact of a badly designed enclosure with cavity and panel resonances that are audible and that is a separate issue from the radiation pattern. Any competent designer can make a sealed speaker system that has no apparent box sounds. You can make a bad open baffle speaker if the panel is flexing and designed poorly and has resonances and peaks and dips in the response due to its shape and size. A dipole radiation pattern will produce a much different and entertaining "sound stage" or presentation in the room compared to a narrow directivity forward firing speaker system. The typical dipole will have rolled off bass and predictable humps and dips in the response due to the baffle width. A dipole pattern can be produced using box speakers. Each radiation pattern has it's advantages and disadvantages. I am enjoying designing multi-driver speakers that can produce different radiation patterns with a click of the remote control: Dipole, Cardioid, Omni Directional, Point Source. I prefer the omni-pattern over the dipole pattern myself. The omni directional commercial offerings run from the Apple HomePod, a bargain at $300 or so, up to the B&O Beo 90.
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Out of phase is not quite the same as reversed polarity, and dipole speakers have reversed polarity coming out the back. It's a constant 180 degree shift at all frequencies (not accounting for bending wave motion and such-like).
An interesting thing about boundary reflections is that they have the air pressure variations mirrored. So if there's an impulse with positive pressure, it will reflect off the walls with negative pressure. You can even try it out by 'flicking' a rope where the other end is tied to a solid object, and see how the reflections behave.
Anyway, this positive-negative flipping of echoes seems to be automatically decoded by our hearing (I say "our" because I assume it's more similar than different, though the details probably vary), so we can quickly figure out the "ambient space" in which a sound occurs. With boxed speakers it's all very mundane: an approximate point source gives predictable echoes where we expect them. With dipoles however, part of the trick seems to be that the backwave already has reversed polarity before the first reflection, so an illusory space is created, like firing off-centre into a 90° corner or something like that in order to get a double reflection, where normally there would be a simple reflection in the case of a flat wall.
An interesting thing about boundary reflections is that they have the air pressure variations mirrored. So if there's an impulse with positive pressure, it will reflect off the walls with negative pressure. You can even try it out by 'flicking' a rope where the other end is tied to a solid object, and see how the reflections behave.
Anyway, this positive-negative flipping of echoes seems to be automatically decoded by our hearing (I say "our" because I assume it's more similar than different, though the details probably vary), so we can quickly figure out the "ambient space" in which a sound occurs. With boxed speakers it's all very mundane: an approximate point source gives predictable echoes where we expect them. With dipoles however, part of the trick seems to be that the backwave already has reversed polarity before the first reflection, so an illusory space is created, like firing off-centre into a 90° corner or something like that in order to get a double reflection, where normally there would be a simple reflection in the case of a flat wall.
I'm not clear on a number of points throughout the video. For example just after 10 minutes he mentions not hearing that from a box speaker. My first impression he's talking about clear imaging. On second listening he could be talking about spaciousness.
It's an important distinction. If he hasn't achieved clear imaging from a non open baffle speaker then the opinions expressed lose weight.
It's an important distinction. If he hasn't achieved clear imaging from a non open baffle speaker then the opinions expressed lose weight.
It exists only fullrange, no eq. Only Cfa amp and wood construction.Well... I was ready to mention the MAGNEPAN speakers, but they do have crossovers...
Using classic electrodynamic speakers, I wonder if an Open Baffle or Plane Baffle with multiple speakers without crossover offering satisfactory results really exists... To be honest, I don't know. Maybe ?
With a single Full-Range speaker mounted in Open Baffle or Plane Baffle, this speaker should be circa 7" diameter to offer the best bandwidth compromise, and the size of the matching baffle would then be very large to avoid acoustic short-circuit that inevitably occurs in the low frequencies, in order to achieve a suitable bass extension - think several Sq.Mtrs. surface...
But it's me, OK ?
T
Sounds awesome
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/corner-horn-meets-open-baffle-cfa.398842/
A Bose speaker in your tiled bathroom.
Makes out of phase room reflections
more amazing too.
Add a resonance barfing port that is too long
for even more magic.
Just need pointless weird angles on the baffle.
Basically just cut angles till your table saw almost binds
Then pure magic erupts. Make the baffle so small
the baffle step is close to as horrible as open baffle.
Makes out of phase room reflections
more amazing too.
Add a resonance barfing port that is too long
for even more magic.
Just need pointless weird angles on the baffle.
Basically just cut angles till your table saw almost binds
Then pure magic erupts. Make the baffle so small
the baffle step is close to as horrible as open baffle.