Hard to get good recordings of live music
I'm no expert concerning recording, But in my quest to get some decent live recordings of my band, I found a workable solution. I use a minidisc recorder, a Sony MZ-RH1, and some binaural microphones that I bought from USB Microphone, Stereo Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Custom Cables and more at Rock Bottom Prices from The Sound Professionals - Great deals on Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Cable and more! The microhones run through a battery box USB Microphone, Stereo Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Custom Cables and more at Rock Bottom Prices from The Sound Professionals - Great deals on Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Cable and more!
that I also purchased from there. The battery box is what gives the mics the headroom to record loud music.The input goes into the line in instead of the mic input. Often the mic distortion is what makes a recording of live music sound bad, of course, a crappy mic is a problem too!
Just relating my experience, It's not a cheap solution.
By the way, I thought your playing sounded really good!
I'm no expert concerning recording, But in my quest to get some decent live recordings of my band, I found a workable solution. I use a minidisc recorder, a Sony MZ-RH1, and some binaural microphones that I bought from USB Microphone, Stereo Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Custom Cables and more at Rock Bottom Prices from The Sound Professionals - Great deals on Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Cable and more! The microhones run through a battery box USB Microphone, Stereo Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Custom Cables and more at Rock Bottom Prices from The Sound Professionals - Great deals on Microphone, Preamplifier, Digital Recorder, Cable and more!
that I also purchased from there. The battery box is what gives the mics the headroom to record loud music.The input goes into the line in instead of the mic input. Often the mic distortion is what makes a recording of live music sound bad, of course, a crappy mic is a problem too!
Just relating my experience, It's not a cheap solution.
By the way, I thought your playing sounded really good!
Hey Cassiel....you are a Player!!! Thanks for givings a tune or two!!!
I wish I could play as well as you....i am really just starting to learn to play again after so many years.
The clean sample is not bad, however it is saturating a good bit on the bass notes...more than you want for clean...if you have the amp cranked up medium, and you want that 'just a bit' saturation, fine...however...mmm
Ok the Crank side is fine too, however you do miss a lot of definition in any even slightly dynamic chord....so when things are getting really saturated, and you are starting to get crunch on the lead notes of every chord, there still needs to be enough something left for the chord to swell a bit...
so thanks good work, you make me want to get mine up for people to build...
I appreciate all the work with the BOM's and vendors, because I am being able to follow behind, and pick n choose....today I looked at the pots from Neward, the $.76 ones, and frankly I like to Bourns from ApexJr a bit better ( @ $.59 each 16mm) these he has in massive quantities....
Still looking for the best power supply arrangements it still looks like Mouser with a 120-240V isolation tranny and solid state rectifier for the approx. final 320V I want....which is pushing the 12AQ5, but we will see.
Also coming to see this as a service to beginning guitarists hobbyists...
seeing that what I am doing will nicely fit Webers 5E3 x 2 head (which also fits the 5C5 chassis below), which is a ready-made plain box for $60 ( or any Tolex you want $220), and the really special part is the 5C5 chassis needs only a few mods to get everything I would build ( drill two holes for Treble & Mid Pots, plus install two Octal to 9 pin (7Pin) cover plates...not too hard ) in a predrilled chassis. Nowdays in this hobby/business the metal work is still the hardest part, and it is so much easier to get pre cut...$110, and YES!!! I will pay it no problem.
so anyway enough for today...perhaps a finally decision on powersupply tomorrow and shopping for electrolytics...mmmm exciting!!! hehe
Peace,
-3db
I wish I could play as well as you....i am really just starting to learn to play again after so many years.
The clean sample is not bad, however it is saturating a good bit on the bass notes...more than you want for clean...if you have the amp cranked up medium, and you want that 'just a bit' saturation, fine...however...mmm
Ok the Crank side is fine too, however you do miss a lot of definition in any even slightly dynamic chord....so when things are getting really saturated, and you are starting to get crunch on the lead notes of every chord, there still needs to be enough something left for the chord to swell a bit...
so thanks good work, you make me want to get mine up for people to build...
I appreciate all the work with the BOM's and vendors, because I am being able to follow behind, and pick n choose....today I looked at the pots from Neward, the $.76 ones, and frankly I like to Bourns from ApexJr a bit better ( @ $.59 each 16mm) these he has in massive quantities....
Still looking for the best power supply arrangements it still looks like Mouser with a 120-240V isolation tranny and solid state rectifier for the approx. final 320V I want....which is pushing the 12AQ5, but we will see.
Also coming to see this as a service to beginning guitarists hobbyists...
seeing that what I am doing will nicely fit Webers 5E3 x 2 head (which also fits the 5C5 chassis below), which is a ready-made plain box for $60 ( or any Tolex you want $220), and the really special part is the 5C5 chassis needs only a few mods to get everything I would build ( drill two holes for Treble & Mid Pots, plus install two Octal to 9 pin (7Pin) cover plates...not too hard ) in a predrilled chassis. Nowdays in this hobby/business the metal work is still the hardest part, and it is so much easier to get pre cut...$110, and YES!!! I will pay it no problem.
so anyway enough for today...perhaps a finally decision on powersupply tomorrow and shopping for electrolytics...mmmm exciting!!! hehe
Peace,
-3db
Even cheaper caps here. About 1/2 the above price
http://www.futurlec.com/CapMylarHigh.shtml
I bought a bunch of these a while back. They work fine but I mostly use then on bread board experiments or power supply bypass.
Look at their electrolytic caps too. They have some suitable for cathode bypass for five and ten cents.
The orders are filled some place in Asia and then I think they must bulk ship many orders to some US post office. Shipping is cheap and reasonable quick considering it has to go 10,000 miles. I mostly use these for prototyping
Last edited:
Hi ChrisA ...thanks for Futurlec..
because perhaps they will have some things I can't get elsewhere...
on the Mylars...I would never use Metallized Mylar for bypass...it sounds to "mushy" to me....sorry not even "Vintage", because I do actually like Mylar and Foil caps, the Black Beauties are basically this...
Futurlec does have Metallized Polypropylene Caps which is sort of my minimum ok bypass cap, but they are $1 a piece ( similar to Xicon), however I want Polypropylene /Foil, because they sound the best to me, and that is why I was Happy to see them for $.40 at Weber, this is the lowest I have seen anywhere...China or other ...
so thanks and I look forward to more cheap parts ...if you can beat my price, please beat me up, because it will just lower the BOM for whoever follows...
Peace,
in California,
-3db
because perhaps they will have some things I can't get elsewhere...
on the Mylars...I would never use Metallized Mylar for bypass...it sounds to "mushy" to me....sorry not even "Vintage", because I do actually like Mylar and Foil caps, the Black Beauties are basically this...
Futurlec does have Metallized Polypropylene Caps which is sort of my minimum ok bypass cap, but they are $1 a piece ( similar to Xicon), however I want Polypropylene /Foil, because they sound the best to me, and that is why I was Happy to see them for $.40 at Weber, this is the lowest I have seen anywhere...China or other ...
so thanks and I look forward to more cheap parts ...if you can beat my price, please beat me up, because it will just lower the BOM for whoever follows...
Peace,
in California,-3db
faulkner1953 - Yeah the minidisc is a pretty good idea, I had thought about that possibility. I don't have one, never had, but I know it sounds good.
Minussss3db- Yes, the output transformer saturates and that makes a mess of power chords, bass notes, etc. I suspect it saturates because of its core - too small. I haven't had time to test the telefunken OT, this one I'm sure it has a gap but same core size so I will find out soon enough if it was the lack of a gap or the OT is just too small.
Minussss3db- Yes, the output transformer saturates and that makes a mess of power chords, bass notes, etc. I suspect it saturates because of its core - too small. I haven't had time to test the telefunken OT, this one I'm sure it has a gap but same core size so I will find out soon enough if it was the lack of a gap or the OT is just too small.
recording live
Just a suggestion for people who want to get a decent recording, many a recording for electric guitar have been done with a Shure SM57. It is not too expensive, and it colours the sound a bit(which can be an advantage..)
It is kind of an industry reference on many recordings and used to mic live so you get an idea of how your amp sounds mic'd compared to others. There are a lot of articles on line how to set up mic position, and then run it to a mic preamp with USB out, right into your computer. Or if your really going DIY..build mic preamp with AD converter & USB out ..but that's a whole other topic.
Just a suggestion for people who want to get a decent recording, many a recording for electric guitar have been done with a Shure SM57. It is not too expensive, and it colours the sound a bit(which can be an advantage..)
It is kind of an industry reference on many recordings and used to mic live so you get an idea of how your amp sounds mic'd compared to others. There are a lot of articles on line how to set up mic position, and then run it to a mic preamp with USB out, right into your computer. Or if your really going DIY..build mic preamp with AD converter & USB out ..but that's a whole other topic.
Use a condenser when a coil just won't do . . .
I took that comment to heart.
That's why I abandoned the recordings I made with my Shure SM57 and made the recordings that I finally posted. The SM57 was indeed "coloring" the sound--with a wee bit of distortion. It may be helpful in giving a boost to an electric guitar recording, but it gets in the way when one is trying to capture a Martin acoustic playing through an amp. I discovered the hard way that there really is no such thing as "clean" through an SM57. And in this challenge the 'advantage' it gives to an electric guitar is a bit of a deception, since we're evaluating amps here, not recordings.
I felt it was more honest to record both the acoustic clean and also the electric guitar distortion from my amp submission using an Audio-Technica 3031 condenser mic, since the mic isn't masking any clean sounds the amp can make and any distortion you hear on that recording is coming from the amp, not the mic.
(And if cost is a concern, I posted a short time ago with a recommendation for a condenser mic that can be bought for $20 at Amazon that's certainly "close enough for jazz." And the MXL 990 is no more expensive than an SM57 and is really quite a respectable condenser for its price.)
Since some have made the opposite of the point I referenced in my first sentence, that not enough distortion is too much not enough distortion, getting any part of the actual sound of my amp from a mic with a strong personality was out of the question for me.
Someone posted here a while back that he was going to listen particularly to the clean output of the submitted amps, since you can put distortion into a clean amp, but you can't put clean into a distorted amp.
I took that comment to heart.
That's why I abandoned the recordings I made with my Shure SM57 and made the recordings that I finally posted. The SM57 was indeed "coloring" the sound--with a wee bit of distortion. It may be helpful in giving a boost to an electric guitar recording, but it gets in the way when one is trying to capture a Martin acoustic playing through an amp. I discovered the hard way that there really is no such thing as "clean" through an SM57. And in this challenge the 'advantage' it gives to an electric guitar is a bit of a deception, since we're evaluating amps here, not recordings.
I felt it was more honest to record both the acoustic clean and also the electric guitar distortion from my amp submission using an Audio-Technica 3031 condenser mic, since the mic isn't masking any clean sounds the amp can make and any distortion you hear on that recording is coming from the amp, not the mic.
(And if cost is a concern, I posted a short time ago with a recommendation for a condenser mic that can be bought for $20 at Amazon that's certainly "close enough for jazz." And the MXL 990 is no more expensive than an SM57 and is really quite a respectable condenser for its price.)
Since some have made the opposite of the point I referenced in my first sentence, that not enough distortion is too much not enough distortion, getting any part of the actual sound of my amp from a mic with a strong personality was out of the question for me.
Negative feedback - A solution to some problems but, damn, this thing sounds boring with it.
Different OT - Didn't even try, checked for the gap, found it easily, LEGO friendly OT. As you can see Telefunken were also cheapskates.
It was pretty, it could play some tunes, it had a good life (a little short though).
BZZZZ BZZZZ....chainsaw sound in the background.....
Different OT - Didn't even try, checked for the gap, found it easily, LEGO friendly OT. As you can see Telefunken were also cheapskates.
It was pretty, it could play some tunes, it had a good life (a little short though).
BZZZZ BZZZZ....chainsaw sound in the background.....
Attachments
![DSCN0813[1]uu.jpg](/community/data/attachments/235/235953-514019b20bc687c58c7a1249c9d2296f.jpg)
![DSCN0815[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/235/235967-e98f0a9314e2ef934c6c724758e24ce0.jpg)
Electrolytics for $100...Cheap Mouser/Newark are Radial
Yuck!! I hate radials (usually anyway)...so I went with ApexJr...
they are the cheapest for 450v and Axial, so thanks to this contest, now I know for sure...I could go with 350v 22uf Radial for .76, but why??
ok so $2 + $1.25 + $1.50 = $4.75 for the power electrolytics...I am not sure about the bipolar from ApexJr, so I am still pricing Newark....I like to use 2W carbon film because they are quiet and I like how they sound, and I can get ones twos, from Neward ( and not from Mouser in this Power), so we will see...also
ApexJr has a great turretboard for $2.95...they bourns pots are not typically 250k instead 200k, so I have to redo the tone stack, and tweak the caps ...will this screw up the good cheap values I want from TedWeber???
We will see...thanks everyone...I keep muddling forward on this shopping trip...hehe!!!
-3db
Yuck!! I hate radials (usually anyway)...so I went with ApexJr...
they are the cheapest for 450v and Axial, so thanks to this contest, now I know for sure...I could go with 350v 22uf Radial for .76, but why??
ok so $2 + $1.25 + $1.50 = $4.75 for the power electrolytics...I am not sure about the bipolar from ApexJr, so I am still pricing Newark....I like to use 2W carbon film because they are quiet and I like how they sound, and I can get ones twos, from Neward ( and not from Mouser in this Power), so we will see...also
ApexJr has a great turretboard for $2.95...they bourns pots are not typically 250k instead 200k, so I have to redo the tone stack, and tweak the caps ...will this screw up the good cheap values I want from TedWeber???
We will see...thanks everyone...I keep muddling forward on this shopping trip...hehe!!!
-3db
The turretboard ApexJr is good, I used it for a high gain P-P EL84 amp awhile back. The axial caps are also good; I think I used the 68uF/450V.
I wasn't impressed with the bourns pots though. I know it's a quality name but these particular ones just seemed overly cheap to me. I prefer the Alphas from mouser for guitar amps.
I wasn't impressed with the bourns pots though. I know it's a quality name but these particular ones just seemed overly cheap to me. I prefer the Alphas from mouser for guitar amps.
6AF11 guitar amp
Another user asked for a schematic of the 6AF11 guitar amp I built so I thought I would also post it just in case anyone else may be interested.
I know, the power supply is WAY overkill and would work just as well and be much cheaper as solid state. If fact, I believe that voltage doubler circuit I saw somewhere in this thread that uses the Triad isolation transformer would be ideal along with a small filament transformer.
I already had all those parts and wanted a tube rectifier power supply circuit so that's the only reason I did it that way. The 6X4 would also work and is much less expensive if you really wanted to stick with a tube rectifier. In fact the PT shown in the schematic is not the exact one I used. It was a custom unit at a higher secondary voltage. I had to use a very large dropping resistor. I just picked an Edcor unit for this schematic that would make it close to what I actually built. That 15H choke sure makes it quiet though!
Scott
Another user asked for a schematic of the 6AF11 guitar amp I built so I thought I would also post it just in case anyone else may be interested.
I know, the power supply is WAY overkill and would work just as well and be much cheaper as solid state. If fact, I believe that voltage doubler circuit I saw somewhere in this thread that uses the Triad isolation transformer would be ideal along with a small filament transformer.
I already had all those parts and wanted a tube rectifier power supply circuit so that's the only reason I did it that way. The 6X4 would also work and is much less expensive if you really wanted to stick with a tube rectifier. In fact the PT shown in the schematic is not the exact one I used. It was a custom unit at a higher secondary voltage. I had to use a very large dropping resistor. I just picked an Edcor unit for this schematic that would make it close to what I actually built. That 15H choke sure makes it quiet though!
Scott
Attachments
Scott, thanks for posting the schematic! It's a nice little amp, and how very nifty to come up with an entire three-stage guitar amp heated by a single filament in one bottle!
For a minute I thought the 18 k value of the cathode resistor for Triode 2 was a typo. Then I saw the "5.4V" marking at the cathode, looked at the tube characteristics, and realized how much bias voltage it takes to throttle this triode down to the point where you can use a 100 k plate load!
-Flieslikeabeagle
For a minute I thought the 18 k value of the cathode resistor for Triode 2 was a typo. Then I saw the "5.4V" marking at the cathode, looked at the tube characteristics, and realized how much bias voltage it takes to throttle this triode down to the point where you can use a 100 k plate load!
-Flieslikeabeagle
Sometimes 'tis better to remain silent and appear lazy than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Actually if YOU choose not to read these 136 pages, YOU have suffered a loss. In reading this thread the real winners will present themselves. My congratulations to all of them!
Last edited:
Somewhere in those 136 pages you will find a post by the contest organizer explaining how he was taking time off to tend to his fathers serious illness. He has only been seen intermittently since then. As someone who has gone through this twice last year, I can relate and do not expect a formal judging of winners and losers any time soon if at all. Technically only Tubekit's amplifier and one of mine delivered a posted bill of material and a schematic by the designated date. My second amp is still being finished slowly in my spare time. The cabinetry is nearly complete and I will plug the amp in for the first time in about 4 months soon. The results will be posted here. There are several posted schematics and it looks like some of them have been built by other interested builders.
As rcavictim stated this thread was, and still is a place for someone to read and learn a lot about designing and building a vacuum tube guitar amplifier. It is also a good thread to mine for ideas, schematics and pictures.
Yes there are some strong opinions and even a temper tantrum or two. it seems that we all can't agree on he definition of a vacuum tube amplifier, or exactly how to add up the cost of building one, but most of the opinions are valid.
If you are even dreaming of building a guitar amp on a budget, read the whole thread. If you just want to clone a Marshall or Fender, it is still worth reading to learn the pitfalls that we all found in doing this.