Good=
Sony XES M50
Beautiful amp, inside and out, superb SQ, ultra expensive, my personal fav of all the amps I’ve owned.
2. McIntosh (with VU’s) Ugly on the inside, classy on the outside and wonderful to the ears.
3. A/D/S/ PQ10-20s Still hard to find a better sounding amp.
Bad=
The MSE Hafler amps.
You will not find one around in use working properly….period.
This is without a doubt the worst example bad engineering I have ever seen.
One of, if not the, first amps to utilize SMT and unfortunately was done wrong.
The amps sounded great and made great power but even in a 4 ohm load the amp would begin to have an excessive alternator whine and then quit after only a few minutes. After looking the board you would see about half the legs of the SMT circuit processors missing.
I remember one shop that had a “no questions asked” return policy start refusing returns because “it must be your fault that you blew up 3 of these amps this week”. Needless to say the Rockford guys made the worst lemon amp of all time.
Ugly
1. Coustic Power Logic amps.
2. Any currently made soundstream amp….for nothing else that this is a company that once made wonderful amps, beautiful in function and design has completely whored out their name and reputation to cater to 16 year olds that are impressed with stupid chrome spiders on their crappy sounding China amps.
Sony XES M50
Beautiful amp, inside and out, superb SQ, ultra expensive, my personal fav of all the amps I’ve owned.
2. McIntosh (with VU’s) Ugly on the inside, classy on the outside and wonderful to the ears.
3. A/D/S/ PQ10-20s Still hard to find a better sounding amp.
Bad=
The MSE Hafler amps.
You will not find one around in use working properly….period.
This is without a doubt the worst example bad engineering I have ever seen.
One of, if not the, first amps to utilize SMT and unfortunately was done wrong.
The amps sounded great and made great power but even in a 4 ohm load the amp would begin to have an excessive alternator whine and then quit after only a few minutes. After looking the board you would see about half the legs of the SMT circuit processors missing.
I remember one shop that had a “no questions asked” return policy start refusing returns because “it must be your fault that you blew up 3 of these amps this week”. Needless to say the Rockford guys made the worst lemon amp of all time.
Ugly
1. Coustic Power Logic amps.
2. Any currently made soundstream amp….for nothing else that this is a company that once made wonderful amps, beautiful in function and design has completely whored out their name and reputation to cater to 16 year olds that are impressed with stupid chrome spiders on their crappy sounding China amps.
What about carver mobile (M240), I saw one in auction but I didn't know if they were any good. I've seen denon and newer nakamichi go reasonable also.
Yeah I have an older rubicon and it seems to have the beans, think that was before they sold out. Too bad about soundstream. Of course look at linear power.
I so hate the looks of today's tin can amps. Cheap plates on the ends and no heatsinks....they look like a new pyramid.
Yeah I have an older rubicon and it seems to have the beans, think that was before they sold out. Too bad about soundstream. Of course look at linear power.
I so hate the looks of today's tin can amps. Cheap plates on the ends and no heatsinks....they look like a new pyramid.
Over the megaphone jol suddenly hears:
"Step away from the Carver."
But seriously, we sold 'em for about a year and they had their share of reliability issues. Absolutely run of the mill performance, but looked nice.
Hey Jonny, we had the same luck with those Haflers. Weren't they shipped in a big box containing one amp filled with expanding foam? You had to literally dig or cut into that mess to find the plastic wrapped amp, then clean up the shop when you were done unpacking.
Fortunately it was good packaging to return them in...
a600:
Curse you! Now I'm questioning my memory!
That was definitely 1986, and 600W amps were beyond rare, they were virtually non-existent. I'm looking at the Orion brochure in my mind and see the 4100, the 2350, the gold amps, no HCCA's yet.
I try to remember the PPI lit, and all I see is the picture of the inside of a small one that looked so good. We had a 2030 on the shelf, the sales dude had a 2050, there was a 4 channel model with staggered power (more power for the rears), a dual mono 2200... Maybe it was the 2200... that would mean a pair of what, 2100's inside? What else did they make then? The boards still had the smaller amp's designation on them. Grrrr.
It was PPI's biggest amp and we had to order it, everyone in the shop was excited, and the serial number was low, only one or two digits... I'll have to look for something to jog my memory, put me on hold!
Not possible. This was 1986. All installers (3) were a part of the fun, as this was BIG news for us. Normal installs were a cassette deck and a pair of speakers. For extra power, most people added an EQ/booster then. Subwoofers were rare, and multi-amp installs were what we lived for. Other work ceased for this kind of stuff.
Besides, that guy was about as swift as a bucket of cat litter. I once watched him stick the speaker wires from a running 260W Craig amp in his mouth to find out if it would shock him.
It did.
Tim
LOL that is funny! Will it shock me....
Sure were(are?) a fair number of losers in that business.
I did not go after the carver, that was broken incidently. I see plenty of that nice name on an amp....that really is just nothing special.
Hey I have a craig powerplay amp here someplace, its a big one too maybe 260 not sure. It works, has a smoked resistor in it I should try to replace if I could figure out what it was.
Oh, everything looked good so I powered up the little HK tonight....and got a power light and no output. I think I see some bad resistors/solders in the input board so going to look. It had 21v on the rail off a 12 battery no charger. It was in a moist place so might take some work to fix, but the main board looks good on the bottom.
Sure were(are?) a fair number of losers in that business.I did not go after the carver, that was broken incidently. I see plenty of that nice name on an amp....that really is just nothing special.
Hey I have a craig powerplay amp here someplace, its a big one too maybe 260 not sure. It works, has a smoked resistor in it I should try to replace if I could figure out what it was.
Oh, everything looked good so I powered up the little HK tonight....and got a power light and no output. I think I see some bad resistors/solders in the input board so going to look. It had 21v on the rail off a 12 battery no charger. It was in a moist place so might take some work to fix, but the main board looks good on the bottom.
The Good - Older Orion HCCA amps, Soundstream Reference series (once they got rid of the manual High Power/High Current switch.) I briefly had a McIntosh that was probably the best sounding amp I've ever heard, but I sold it for a quick profit. I remember being really impressed with the PPI amps of the mid-to-late 90s as well.
The Bad - It would be so easy to pick on the myriad of cheap, low quality brands, so I think I'll single out Sony as "The Bad" since they really had the potential to make something good but they decided to produce all that Xplod garbage instead. Shame on them.
The Ugly - AudioBling... er AudioBahn. No contest!
The Bad - It would be so easy to pick on the myriad of cheap, low quality brands, so I think I'll single out Sony as "The Bad" since they really had the potential to make something good but they decided to produce all that Xplod garbage instead. Shame on them.
The Ugly - AudioBling... er AudioBahn. No contest!
As I mentioned that my all time fav amp was a Sony (I have owned many amps and would buy this one again if I could find it reasonable).
Pull the cover off that sony and if it looks like this I will agree that its not ugly.
LOL
Pull the cover off that sony and if it looks like this I will agree that its not ugly.
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LOL
The good old days of quality amps. I could tell you why I now...err, have "dis-owned" sony for its political/legal/technology/etc/etc reasons, but that is not the point of this thread. If I my luck is good bluray will be the modern beta vcr, they sure deserve it. I have an old sony cassette HU, is still works really well and sounded great since the day I got it around '90. As far as operation/function, it is better than my alpine.
haha, well to keep on topic..
in my opinion of what I personally know about...
the good: Apline PDX, Sony ES , Audison
the bad: never really ever had a problem with amps..
the ugly: some of the older alpines... yuck.
I noticed a lot of people don't like older sanyos, but I have one (cant remember the model) but it's still running strong.. even though it's not in my car right now. I had it bridged (4 channel) running at 1 ohm per side, and it took it like a champ..
except for the fact that I could honestly cook a steak on it.
in my opinion of what I personally know about...
the good: Apline PDX, Sony ES
, Audisonthe bad: never really ever had a problem with amps..
the ugly: some of the older alpines... yuck.
I noticed a lot of people don't like older sanyos, but I have one (cant remember the model) but it's still running strong.. even though it's not in my car right now. I had it bridged (4 channel) running at 1 ohm per side, and it took it like a champ..
except for the fact that I could honestly cook a steak on it.
I look at amps from the inside out. Typically, if the design is solid, the manufacturer takes pains to have a nice exterior.
The Good
Phoenix Gold MPS series
PPI AM, Art Series
Soundstream Reference
Lanzar Opti (Gary Kovner, black wrinkle finish era)
Xtant 3300c
The Bad
Any 80's Korean made amp:
-Fultron
-Sanyo
-Profile
-Rockwood
-Boss
-Urban Audio
-Targa
80's Pioneer GM series
Rockford Punch "GoldWing" era
The Ugly
Harrison Labs (ever look inside?) http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Harrison_Labs_Audio_Engine/inside1.jpg
KLW/Carver Broadway - I own one...ugly, but so clean!
JBL "Lego Land" Heatsink
Clarion "Purple Heatsink"
Sony "Purple Heatsink"
The Good
Phoenix Gold MPS series
PPI AM, Art Series
Soundstream Reference
Lanzar Opti (Gary Kovner, black wrinkle finish era)
Xtant 3300c
The Bad
Any 80's Korean made amp:
-Fultron
-Sanyo
-Profile
-Rockwood
-Boss
-Urban Audio
-Targa
80's Pioneer GM series
Rockford Punch "GoldWing" era
The Ugly
Harrison Labs (ever look inside?) http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Harrison_Labs_Audio_Engine/inside1.jpg
KLW/Carver Broadway - I own one...ugly, but so clean!
JBL "Lego Land" Heatsink
Clarion "Purple Heatsink"
Sony "Purple Heatsink"
Hi guys,
I collect a bit of old school gear, and I do like the early Hifonics stuff, but have a weak spot for the Denon DCA800, and I have two Philips DAP600 MK2 sitting upstairs waiting to be put to good use. However,my fave amp of all time is the Kenwood KAC-1020. Big,mean,great build quality and the object of my desire when I was 17! Otherwise not very familiar with the american gear. We were all alpine and kenwood boys when the Lakeside cruise began around 1990 (anyone remember it?)
Cheers
Mat
I collect a bit of old school gear, and I do like the early Hifonics stuff, but have a weak spot for the Denon DCA800, and I have two Philips DAP600 MK2 sitting upstairs waiting to be put to good use. However,my fave amp of all time is the Kenwood KAC-1020. Big,mean,great build quality and the object of my desire when I was 17! Otherwise not very familiar with the american gear. We were all alpine and kenwood boys when the Lakeside cruise began around 1990 (anyone remember it?)
Cheers
Mat
EnvisionAudio said:
Yeah, my friend had the 921 (second to the 1021) running two 10" mtx ported truck boxes in stereo in his s-10 behind the seats, back when the equipment and the truck were new. (86/87 I think) It sounded GREAT. He also had a kenwood eq and kenwood deck, I can't remember but I believe the deck was tape. I loved that style kenwood amp. I also agree on all of the amps you mentioned, but I did have a cheap korean one called "hitron" that had the actual specs on the center of the top ( 130 watts rms by two at 4 ohms stereo at .02 thd, etc..) It was about 13" long with plain black anodized fins. I ran this in stereo with two pioneer tsw301c woofers, back when they were new in 1991 and it sounded great, even with the crappy internal crossover of the amp and the sealed box. I had the sony cdx 4080 (crappy external amp) pullout deck ($400!) and some jensen 3.5" in the front with 3/4" pioneer tweeters and some lousy kicker midrange 4" that only took about four months for the foam to seperate from the cones.
Almost forgot the first amp I was using for bass in that car was a pyramid pb 2075g running an mtx road thunder dual 10" ported enclosure.Please refrain from laughing heehee
Sorry guys, just remembering my first car system
Oh yeah, we were talking about amps..
GOOD---If I can only pick one, My favorite is the early Zapco 3-piece amps. Just can't get enough of them. Plus since they mount in 3 pieces, you can get creative in mounting them. Other amps look great too. Early Fosgate, old Phoenix Gold, old Orion, Linear Power, ect.
UGLY---Worst in my opinion is the Sony Xplod. Never owned one, they just look cheap and extremely ugly. (not the ES Line)... Older Sherwood amps were pretty ugly. Series V and Series VI Hifonics were kindof an ugly line of amps too, but they sounded great...
UGLY---Worst in my opinion is the Sony Xplod. Never owned one, they just look cheap and extremely ugly. (not the ES Line)... Older Sherwood amps were pretty ugly. Series V and Series VI Hifonics were kindof an ugly line of amps too, but they sounded great...
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The Good: Zapco Studio Series from the 90's, I've had dozens of amps since then & am still impressed.
The Bad: As said above, if a company has to rip their name from another brand, they are likely crap.
The Ugly: Audiobahn (pretty much anything from them), I think that early Blaupunkt stuff was hard to look at as well (seems like everything they made had a graph).
I don't know why people are dogging Coustic though, I actually liked the way they look for the most part & I still have multiple amps from them that still work (that makes them almost 15 years old). Never had any noise issues or distortion. Power ratings were always accurate & had decent protection circuitry.
Also along the same lines, Pyramid did make some crappy amps. However, they also made some of the best (or had them made for them). They made many different qualities & their Super Pro line was actually competition worthy (not that anyone had the balls to try).
The Bad: As said above, if a company has to rip their name from another brand, they are likely crap.
The Ugly: Audiobahn (pretty much anything from them), I think that early Blaupunkt stuff was hard to look at as well (seems like everything they made had a graph).
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I don't know why people are dogging Coustic though, I actually liked the way they look for the most part & I still have multiple amps from them that still work (that makes them almost 15 years old). Never had any noise issues or distortion. Power ratings were always accurate & had decent protection circuitry.
Also along the same lines, Pyramid did make some crappy amps. However, they also made some of the best (or had them made for them). They made many different qualities & their Super Pro line was actually competition worthy (not that anyone had the balls to try).
Pyramid pro - 160236969256 I already have the sansui version.
Oh man, I just got a Rockwood in a pile of junk. One 12v IC and it looks like it is actually blown up! A diode is toasty.
This blaupunkt looks better, I wonder who made it. 250242414484 I heard kicker made some.
I think the early coustic (ampxxx) was a great looking amp, much like a linear power. If I built one it would have the same sink, they were the best IMO.
I have a power acoustic plasma sphere here, now the sphere thing is corny but actually the rest of the amp has the coolest finish on it like brushed stainless. Whatever it is I really like it as I usually prefer black. Maybe the coustic black tall fins and case out of this stuff. The early LP brushed aluminum ends were not that nice.
Oh man, I just got a Rockwood in a pile of junk. One 12v IC and it looks like it is actually blown up! A diode is toasty.
This blaupunkt looks better, I wonder who made it. 250242414484 I heard kicker made some.
I think the early coustic (ampxxx) was a great looking amp, much like a linear power. If I built one it would have the same sink, they were the best IMO.
I have a power acoustic plasma sphere here, now the sphere thing is corny but actually the rest of the amp has the coolest finish on it like brushed stainless. Whatever it is I really like it as I usually prefer black. Maybe the coustic black tall fins and case out of this stuff. The early LP brushed aluminum ends were not that nice.
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