We have HD Radio here, which stands for "Hybrid Digital" not "High Definition". It's just fine for listening in the car. In fact I find it somewhat cleaner than FM in the car. Have never heard it at home, so can't comment on its ultimate fidelity. HD radio receivers for home seem to be rare. I don't know the bitrates used.
We also have satellite radio. It can sound quite awful. The talk stations are very low bitrate and have that underwater sound. Really annoying. The music stations are just tolerable.
We also have satellite radio. It can sound quite awful. The talk stations are very low bitrate and have that underwater sound. Really annoying. The music stations are just tolerable.
Apple iTunes is using 320 kbps AAC, so it must be a significant portion of the marketWe must be looking in different places. MP3 is far from obsolete, I see it for download everywhere. Why? Because just about everything can play it. MP3 has become universal.
It would be interesting to know if the higher bitrate downloads have moved significantly away from MP3. I wonder if there are any numbers or industry surveys of this?
I do agree that there are better compression schemes, but once you get >220Kbs it's hard to tell them apart. The advantages over MP3 are at lower bitrates. If you play a decent >220Kbs MP3 for most people, they won't know it's compressed. Tell them, and they'll complain about how bad it is, right after not noticing.
I would be very surprised if I could hear the difference between 320 kbps AAC and raw CD (if they are the same mix)
I find I listen infrequently to DAB. Like you, I bought a standalone tuner (Pure DRX701) but it can go weeks without being used. Havn't got an FM tuner either these days.
Digital TV here has a couple of music channels, but it displays the classic digital sound artifacts that have done so much damage to the "digital sound" brand. Nominally quite correct, there is an irritating, not quite audible quality, no matter how soft the sound is, that slowly builds up an agitation, until you can't stand it any more and switch it off ...
Grace makes this one:
Amazon.com: Grace Digital Wireless Hi-fi Internet Radio Tuner featuring Pandora and NPR (GDI-IRDT200): Electronics
don't know nuttin' about it.
We must be looking in different places. MP3 is far from obsolete, I see it for download everywhere. Why? Because just about everything can play it. MP3 has become universal.
It would be interesting to know if the higher bitrate downloads have moved significantly away from MP3. I wonder if there are any numbers or industry surveys of this?
I do agree that there are better compression schemes, but once you get >220Kbs it's hard to tell them apart. The advantages over MP3 are at lower bitrates. If you play a decent >220Kbs MP3 for most people, they won't know it's compressed. Tell them, and they'll complain about how bad it is, right after not noticing.
You're using different definitions of "obsolete". One of you mean that it's not the latest and greatest, and the other means that it is not popular.
Clearly, MP3 is popular, but it's also clear that it's not the latest and greatest.
Did not read all the responses but...... IMO good audio is dead fot the general public . What originally started the downward spiral is another story. However, there is no going back for the masses.
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Why? When you take into account that most now listen to audio from minuscule speakers, compression is mandatory and it make little difference what the overall quality is. Add to that we now have generations who have never heard good audio so, they have nothing to compare crap audio to .
We no have generations who think.. Mc D's makes great hamburgers, who now watch movies on a 3 inch screen and think their smart phone has the best audio that they ever heard . After all they concluded, newer is always better . "The next "great thing", etc..
I just saw a commercial for a new tablet that claims that the audio is cutting edge simply because the crap, minuscule speakers are front mounted instead of side mounted . Now you can hear the crap audio louder!. That's better ..... right? The next great thing.......
Personally, I lost count of the times that I was told by people that they did not want "flat sounding music" when I told them A "flat freq response" was something to strive for .
Generations now haven't a clue! They are now fed fed garbage and love it..
BTW. one of the original main selling points of audio CDs when first marketed was a potential for a wider dynamic rage....... WTF happened?
.
Why? When you take into account that most now listen to audio from minuscule speakers, compression is mandatory and it make little difference what the overall quality is. Add to that we now have generations who have never heard good audio so, they have nothing to compare crap audio to .
We no have generations who think.. Mc D's makes great hamburgers, who now watch movies on a 3 inch screen and think their smart phone has the best audio that they ever heard . After all they concluded, newer is always better . "The next "great thing", etc..
I just saw a commercial for a new tablet that claims that the audio is cutting edge simply because the crap, minuscule speakers are front mounted instead of side mounted . Now you can hear the crap audio louder!. That's better ..... right? The next great thing.......
Personally, I lost count of the times that I was told by people that they did not want "flat sounding music" when I told them A "flat freq response" was something to strive for .
Generations now haven't a clue! They are now fed fed garbage and love it..
BTW. one of the original main selling points of audio CDs when first marketed was a potential for a wider dynamic rage....... WTF happened?
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Depends on how we see it. It could mean that people understand that flat FR is not the only measure available. There are others and we cannot have the best of them all at the same time.
It's like THD with amplifiers. Yes THD is important especially in the era where it is difficult to build a low THD amplifiers. Nowadays, unless your amp is a chip amp, "who cares" with THD. 0.02% is fine.
Same with speakers. Of course we want a flat FR. But what is it we have to sacrifice to get the flattest one?
Just want to add BBC Radio 3 has a 320kB stream too. And this is something
where compression still has a place and will eventually replace FM broadcast.
DAB is a dead end, with reasonably fast internet connections even on mobile
devices it makes no sense to build and maintain a DAB infrastructure.
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The big snag is that fast mobile internet will always be much more expensive than FM broadcast (for the listener). Even home internet may be more expensive. I doubt if the current infrastructure could cope with all current FM users demanding the same audio quality online. Politicians don't think about boring technical details like that.
FM broadcast on Band 2 is still a good engineering solution for the problem of delivering high quality speech and stereo music to a nation. Even better for local stations.
FM broadcast on Band 2 is still a good engineering solution for the problem of delivering high quality speech and stereo music to a nation. Even better for local stations.
Typical: a 1950's FM receiver can still receive today's FM broadcasts, an eight year old DAB receiver is too old to be upgraded to DAB+...
The main reason for using excessive dynamic range compression in broadcasting is that most listeners prefer a station that sounds loud over one that sounds softer (or at least that is what the radio station managers believe). In the Netherlands the amount of dynamic range compression on FM broadcasts has gone up considerably as the number of competing stations increased.
The people in question always interpret a "flat response " as sound that is lifeless...boring and old fashioned as new equipment "makes music sound full not flat.. Like I said, they don't have a clues and are not familiar at all with any real audio terms. These are the same people who insist that "speakers put out watts". Ignorance truly is bliss with them .
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DF96, I don´t know the situation in the UK, but most people I know have broadband and flat rate at home. Listenning to Radio 3 with 320kB plus normal internet use works flawless for me.
Mobile: I used to work on a mobile TV (and radio) project for Hutchinson here in Austria and offers like a telephony, tv and internet package where tv and radio are unlimited of course
are not uncommon nowadays.
Mobile: I used to work on a mobile TV (and radio) project for Hutchinson here in Austria and offers like a telephony, tv and internet package where tv and radio are unlimited of course
are not uncommon nowadays.
In the UK an 'unlimited' flat rate broadband deal at home usually includes a 'fair use' condition. If you use too much bandwidth they will slow you down. Hence continuous streaming of something I can currently hear over-the-air might be a problem.
My TV is also over-the-air. I don't wish to pay extra for TV bundled with broadband. My only mobile device is a simple phone on a pay-as-you-go contract, which I hardly ever use.
For me, FM is perfect. High quality. No subscription cost. I can choose whether to receive it at high or low quality, instead of the sender deciding for me.
I guess some might think I am a technological dinosaur. As an EE, I believe in appropriate technology - not necessarily the latest technology. I also prefer buying to renting. Like most older people in the UK I am asset-rich and income-poor.
My TV is also over-the-air. I don't wish to pay extra for TV bundled with broadband. My only mobile device is a simple phone on a pay-as-you-go contract, which I hardly ever use.
For me, FM is perfect. High quality. No subscription cost. I can choose whether to receive it at high or low quality, instead of the sender deciding for me.
I guess some might think I am a technological dinosaur. As an EE, I believe in appropriate technology - not necessarily the latest technology. I also prefer buying to renting. Like most older people in the UK I am asset-rich and income-poor.
Yep, I've managed nicely with a 10GB limit for the last few years, in fact it used to be 2GB. I did get a free upgrade to fibre and 40GB though. Just wait 'till its renewal time... how much !!! Take it out
Yep, like me
Are you going to ban all ball games when we have the revolution ? I am You've got of those things ? Well, I must confess I got one too, had it around 2.5 years now. Think I've used around £15 in that time. I do send a text to myself occasionally just so "they" know it still exists, and it reminds me how to use it
A dinosaur. Not at all. I've only had a PC 6 years.
...............Odd, I find from time to time the "music channels" I get from Direct TV sometimes are running un-compressed without the Dynamic compression. We all know the sound, the effect.....the music is going to hit a crescendo & the damn limiter kicks in....I can almost picture an individual standing by with his finger on a big red button ready to strike.
_____________________________________________________Rick............
_____________________________________________________Rick............
You know,
I have a hate for the continual twiddling on mobile phones..some people I worked with would have three<<yes three mobile phones two for work and one for home+ they would be on a mobile phone and say can you hold while they answered the land line at work they would text while talking to you in a meeting..it used to drive me nuts...then the company gave me one and asked why it was not switched on in work hours, I said I don't like them..they are OK for emergencies..they said it has a tracker on it so you WILL USE IT..
<<or else..I don't like having it on when I,m driving..get a hands free kit...Regards
M. Gregg
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