Does anyone know if Burning Amp is even happening this year???????????????
I haven't been able to get a response from Mark by EMail, no one has posted anything here, and I can't find anything on the web.
If its a no-go, I may re-schedule the Davis DIY even for the same weekend and invite people to trek on out.
-Charlie
I haven't been able to get a response from Mark by EMail, no one has posted anything here, and I can't find anything on the web.
If its a no-go, I may re-schedule the Davis DIY even for the same weekend and invite people to trek on out.
-Charlie
I would also like to see a change in venue. schlepping into the city isn't my ideal commute; not before the show and not post-show. what's wrong with a hotel and its function rooms, right off the freeway somewhere? 
why make things harder than they have to be?
I bet some money would be saved, too, by not being right in the city.
why make things harder than they have to be?I bet some money would be saved, too, by not being right in the city.
I do agree that the actual location does pose some challenges that could be addressed by a different venue.
The other side of the coin, however, is people who are using BAF as an excuse to take a mini vacation in the city, ( like me) and Ft. Mason is in a completely awesome location for that.
The other side of the coin, however, is people who are using BAF as an excuse to take a mini vacation in the city, ( like me) and Ft. Mason is in a completely awesome location for that.
you can do both; I would like to see the B.A. event on the south bay, maybe south of burlingame. that way its not too far -from- the city, people can book a hotel there and then drive to the city if they want; but those of us who are there just for the event don't have to deal with city driving, city parking and the high cost of the event DUE to the fact that its on expensive city land. it does not have to be - its just an audio show (lol) and there's nothing special about being 'near the water', really. we're paying for high priced land that really does not help us in any way, shape or form.
At some point last year there was some chatter about the future of the event, and whether it should expand to include both DIY stuff and commercial reps and move to a 2-day event at one of the hotels south of SFO in Burlingame IIRC. This would also provide extra time for more talks during the show.
This was just one of many options that were brought up. I got the idea that the event had grown in scope to something that was not really easily manageable in terms of organization and planning.
This was just one of many options that were brought up. I got the idea that the event had grown in scope to something that was not really easily manageable in terms of organization and planning.
I have not speak with Mark lately, and do not have an update on this year's BAF yet.
As for the BAF, I agree that it needs to progress if it is to continue. I was aware of that a few years back. But to make that change it really requires someone professionally involved. The character of the event was voluntary, non profit and pure diy, helped by outstanding support of audio greats, such as Nelson Pass, Siegfred Linkwitz, Linear Systems, NHL, ... as ultimate diyers. San Francisco, for sure could use one good audio show and BAF has everything that could support that idea. With that for sure it will loose some of its liberal and progressive character, but I am sure it is possible still to maintain that together with for business involvement.
While I recognized that I was aware it is not something I will be willing to take over. I am sure neither Mark is interested nor capable for that ether. DIYers have no due dates and our production is slow. For that reason year over year we shown pretty much the same items. What really carried us and gave such a high quality to the event were exceptional lectures and speeches. Amp Camp was great idea and it really added something new.
As for the location, it is much harder than you think finding a suitable space with acceptable price. All in all I believe Fort Mason is a perfect location. It is centrally located so people from North, South and East Bay, have the same access. It has plenty of bigger rooms, that are far better than typical hotel rooms. Also do not forget, to get location for the event it needs to be reserved about one year in advance, if not earlier. In addition, having plenty of easy and free parking is quite rare. And freight elevator is added bonus?
Lastly, BAF was geared for the soul as much as for ears (if not more). I was more interested in meeting in person all the great people from the board than anything else. That is really reason behind the show as much as giving back something to community that we felt to owe a lot for a great amount of learning and pleasure. For that we felt that great view only obscured with BBQ smoke will be the right setting. Do not forget how many visitors from really far away we had. If someone came from India or from Europe, than I think Golden Gate view is something that certainly adds to the memory. A boring non descript hotel room with freeway view is something anyone anywhere could offer.
As for the BAF, I agree that it needs to progress if it is to continue. I was aware of that a few years back. But to make that change it really requires someone professionally involved. The character of the event was voluntary, non profit and pure diy, helped by outstanding support of audio greats, such as Nelson Pass, Siegfred Linkwitz, Linear Systems, NHL, ... as ultimate diyers. San Francisco, for sure could use one good audio show and BAF has everything that could support that idea. With that for sure it will loose some of its liberal and progressive character, but I am sure it is possible still to maintain that together with for business involvement.
While I recognized that I was aware it is not something I will be willing to take over. I am sure neither Mark is interested nor capable for that ether. DIYers have no due dates and our production is slow. For that reason year over year we shown pretty much the same items. What really carried us and gave such a high quality to the event were exceptional lectures and speeches. Amp Camp was great idea and it really added something new.
As for the location, it is much harder than you think finding a suitable space with acceptable price. All in all I believe Fort Mason is a perfect location. It is centrally located so people from North, South and East Bay, have the same access. It has plenty of bigger rooms, that are far better than typical hotel rooms. Also do not forget, to get location for the event it needs to be reserved about one year in advance, if not earlier. In addition, having plenty of easy and free parking is quite rare. And freight elevator is added bonus?
Lastly, BAF was geared for the soul as much as for ears (if not more). I was more interested in meeting in person all the great people from the board than anything else. That is really reason behind the show as much as giving back something to community that we felt to owe a lot for a great amount of learning and pleasure. For that we felt that great view only obscured with BBQ smoke will be the right setting. Do not forget how many visitors from really far away we had. If someone came from India or from Europe, than I think Golden Gate view is something that certainly adds to the memory. A boring non descript hotel room with freeway view is something anyone anywhere could offer.
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I'm not an organizer, but from what I can tell - the headfi events happen every 6mos or even more often that that, sometimes; and I know that they are not 1 year planned out. for the hotel function rooms they use (often a block of 6 or so), it seems to be do-able from even 3months out. IF you don't insist on being at prime real estate (cough, the city) then you can take your pick of hotels that are accessible by everyone, and with no city driving hassle.
face it: not everyone loves city driving. otoh, any city driver can easily tolerate highways you can make it easier on people if you avoid the city and there is no good reason that I have heard, yet, to justify ft mason over some random hotel room in a less pricey locale.
someone coming from the north can actually have an easier time if you don't have to be IN the city and are just passing thru it or around it. have it closer to a bridge that connects east and south bay and then no one has to go thru the city at all.
most of us are here for the audio, people, event. the city adds nothing good to my experience and only adds expensive and hassle. I strongly suggest we consider finding another location. I'll go wherever it is since I like this annual event but it would really help if we opened up our minds to alternative locations for this event.
face it: not everyone loves city driving. otoh, any city driver can easily tolerate highways
you can make it easier on people if you avoid the city and there is no good reason that I have heard, yet, to justify ft mason over some random hotel room in a less pricey locale.someone coming from the north can actually have an easier time if you don't have to be IN the city and are just passing thru it or around it. have it closer to a bridge that connects east and south bay and then no one has to go thru the city at all.
most of us are here for the audio, people, event. the city adds nothing good to my experience and only adds expensive and hassle. I strongly suggest we consider finding another location. I'll go wherever it is since I like this annual event but it would really help if we opened up our minds to alternative locations for this event.
I completely understand your point (AR2), but the Fort Mason venue has some serious drawbacks as well. The event is a single day. All those people you mention who come from afar and/or just want to check out the city are staying somewhere else (not at Fort Mason!) anyway. Whether they spend the day in a hotel maze, or the day in the maze of concrete bunker rooms at Fort Mason, does not seem to be all that important. All the loudspeaker people agree that the acoustics at Fort Mason are horrible and the noble attempts at sound treatment have not helped much at all. There is only so much lipstick you can apply to the proverbial pig, anyway.
Perhaps a suitable venue could be found at a hotel that was on a BART line, Bay Ferry, Caltrain or other straightforward public transit access to the city. The DIYer could hit the show while the significant other goes into the city to explore for the day. This would allow people to hang around and socialize for longer (over dinner and into the night at least) and could have an easy extended stay of a couple of days. A hotel would likely present much better acoustics, the venue could be better compartmentalized as needed, and would allow for parallel lecture sessions to take place.
I live about 80 miles from Fort Mason. Each year I lug speakers and electronics there and back and then up and down the stairs (due to only one slow freight elevator). I leave my home at 7AM and get back at 8PM and this makes for an exhausting day. I would love to take it a little easier and spend 2-3 days at the venue with more time to set up, take down, mingle, etc. There would be enough time to actually make a date to sit down and have a drink and chat with someone while not having to babysit equipment or miss out on something else. I do not see how this would be possible near Fort Mason. Hotels in the city are very expensive, and this is one reason why a San Mateo/Burlingame area or other hotel on the penninsula might work out.
Just throwing out ideas here.
Perhaps a suitable venue could be found at a hotel that was on a BART line, Bay Ferry, Caltrain or other straightforward public transit access to the city. The DIYer could hit the show while the significant other goes into the city to explore for the day. This would allow people to hang around and socialize for longer (over dinner and into the night at least) and could have an easy extended stay of a couple of days. A hotel would likely present much better acoustics, the venue could be better compartmentalized as needed, and would allow for parallel lecture sessions to take place.
I live about 80 miles from Fort Mason. Each year I lug speakers and electronics there and back and then up and down the stairs (due to only one slow freight elevator). I leave my home at 7AM and get back at 8PM and this makes for an exhausting day. I would love to take it a little easier and spend 2-3 days at the venue with more time to set up, take down, mingle, etc. There would be enough time to actually make a date to sit down and have a drink and chat with someone while not having to babysit equipment or miss out on something else. I do not see how this would be possible near Fort Mason. Hotels in the city are very expensive, and this is one reason why a San Mateo/Burlingame area or other hotel on the penninsula might work out.
Just throwing out ideas here.
Ok here's the update. And thanks for the input. My opinion is there's no perfect solution BUT we have some new ideas... I totally agree that the sound is pretty bad at Ft. Mason, and it bothers me. But you should be aware that the price is reasonable which is a big item. Cheaper than 6 rooms in a hotel out of town, so the assumptions that moving out of the city would be cheaper are probably wrong. The big difference is that shows at hotels tend to have sponsors. I disagree with linuxworks, I'm sure many people show up because it's in the city (and so are they). Ft. Mason being on the bay is also a huge plus IMHO. The site is quite nice and I think more people love it being in the city by the bay, as would love it at the airport. But if a hotel is the solution then we just need to make it work. A multi-day event at a hotel is the logical alternative, and one we're considering. The problem with multi-day at a hotel is that the expenses appear to be much, much higher. So we'd need a lot more sponsors. And other issues, like how do we secure the rooms so people don't have stuff stolen? At the moment, charging $30 at the door works for the 6 rooms at Ft. Mason which is a non-profit organization. I believe 6 hotel rooms for 2 days plus a meeting room without sponsors would cost $80 a person for a 2 day pass, and $30 is plenty already.
OTOH, Maybe more people will show up which will help with the cost. Having a day before to get things set up would be so wonderful. I have to show up before 8 AM and frantically try to get the equipment loaded. Always gets the day off to a bad start. Then I go home at 9pm...So I don't have tremendous sympathy for others who have to do the same. And a freight elevator- way nicer than the Presidio Yacht club which had no elevator at all!
I do like the point that it could be on one of the transit lines- that would be a great idea! I'm interested in suggestions, but it REALLY is hard to find venues that are divided up other than hotels which are certainly NOT non-profit! Most venues available for rent have large rooms because that's generally why people rent rooms- they don't have large enough spaces.
So, long story short, Charlie, have your show whenever you want, we'll be skipping 2014 with the idea that there will be a new format for 2015! We have some good ideas, but there's a lot of work between ideas and really finding a place that works (everyone who knows about this stuff realizes there are no obvious solutions). We do have some good ideas for next year, but need more time to find what we'll be comfortable with and can afford. Most input here has helped us, so thanks for that.
Next year will be a celebration and we hope everyone will bring their old projects and we can audition them in better circumstances. Stay tuned for updates!
Mark
OTOH, Maybe more people will show up which will help with the cost. Having a day before to get things set up would be so wonderful. I have to show up before 8 AM and frantically try to get the equipment loaded. Always gets the day off to a bad start. Then I go home at 9pm...So I don't have tremendous sympathy for others who have to do the same. And a freight elevator- way nicer than the Presidio Yacht club which had no elevator at all!
I do like the point that it could be on one of the transit lines- that would be a great idea! I'm interested in suggestions, but it REALLY is hard to find venues that are divided up other than hotels which are certainly NOT non-profit! Most venues available for rent have large rooms because that's generally why people rent rooms- they don't have large enough spaces.
So, long story short, Charlie, have your show whenever you want, we'll be skipping 2014 with the idea that there will be a new format for 2015! We have some good ideas, but there's a lot of work between ideas and really finding a place that works (everyone who knows about this stuff realizes there are no obvious solutions). We do have some good ideas for next year, but need more time to find what we'll be comfortable with and can afford. Most input here has helped us, so thanks for that.
Next year will be a celebration and we hope everyone will bring their old projects and we can audition them in better circumstances. Stay tuned for updates!
Mark
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Hmm... That sucks, although I do understand the need for some kind of evolution of the event.
In the time being, perhaps the format can be something like the Lone Star Audio Fest, which is held in a Embassy Suites, giving everybody a room to set up the gear and a separate bedroom. People just go from room to room and hear the various setups. I'm pretty sure there is one in Burlingame. The down side, of course, is you just really, significantly increased the cost to display.
For 2015 though, I would like to put a vote in to having it somewhere in the city, and near the water, as I have been using BAF as an excuse to visit San Fran. In the last couple of years it's the only vacation I've gotten and I really enjoy the location.
In the time being, perhaps the format can be something like the Lone Star Audio Fest, which is held in a Embassy Suites, giving everybody a room to set up the gear and a separate bedroom. People just go from room to room and hear the various setups. I'm pretty sure there is one in Burlingame. The down side, of course, is you just really, significantly increased the cost to display.
For 2015 though, I would like to put a vote in to having it somewhere in the city, and near the water, as I have been using BAF as an excuse to visit San Fran. In the last couple of years it's the only vacation I've gotten and I really enjoy the location.
Mark,
Thanks for your reply and the open dialogue you have started. You raise some good points - Fort Mason IS a nice venue in terms of its proximity to the water, the fact that we can have an outdoor barbecue and a very large lecture hall, all at a reasonable price. If in the end the event is back at Fort Mason, then we all know what to expect (good and bad) and I am sure that the event would be just as successful as before. I have not personally had to look into hotel venues in or around the city so I am not very familiar with the relative costs of other area hotel versus Fort Mason.
In the interim this is a great time to explore alternative possibilities. Here's a (crazy) thought: move the event to Reno - many hotels there. Reno is relatively inexpensive but still within striking distance for Bay Area people who can then stay overnight. The Reno airport makes for easy access for those who fly in. That might ensure a captive crowd who would mingle into/through the evening hours, making informal night sessions possible, more mingle time, etc. This might allow for "sponsors" who will offset costs. Again, just a crazy outside the box kind of thought and you can't begin to compare a view of the Golden Gate bridge with the Reno skyline unless you prefer parched landscapes. Personally I can say that I will be viewing DIY equipment and loudspeaker builds at either place and what is outside is less important.
I think that this is the time to throw out these outlandish suggestions and maybe a diamond in the rough will appear. On the other hand, perhaps we will disenfranchise the core group of attendees and lose the DIY feel that has been created at Fort Mason if we move or change the show.
Thanks for your reply and the open dialogue you have started. You raise some good points - Fort Mason IS a nice venue in terms of its proximity to the water, the fact that we can have an outdoor barbecue and a very large lecture hall, all at a reasonable price. If in the end the event is back at Fort Mason, then we all know what to expect (good and bad) and I am sure that the event would be just as successful as before. I have not personally had to look into hotel venues in or around the city so I am not very familiar with the relative costs of other area hotel versus Fort Mason.
In the interim this is a great time to explore alternative possibilities. Here's a (crazy) thought: move the event to Reno - many hotels there. Reno is relatively inexpensive but still within striking distance for Bay Area people who can then stay overnight. The Reno airport makes for easy access for those who fly in. That might ensure a captive crowd who would mingle into/through the evening hours, making informal night sessions possible, more mingle time, etc. This might allow for "sponsors" who will offset costs. Again, just a crazy outside the box kind of thought and you can't begin to compare a view of the Golden Gate bridge with the Reno skyline unless you prefer parched landscapes. Personally I can say that I will be viewing DIY equipment and loudspeaker builds at either place and what is outside is less important.
I think that this is the time to throw out these outlandish suggestions and maybe a diamond in the rough will appear. On the other hand, perhaps we will disenfranchise the core group of attendees and lose the DIY feel that has been created at Fort Mason if we move or change the show.
Personally, I think Fort Mason is an excellent choice for location. Everything is so close by. I bet very few people stay over at RMAF and explore the "location." Location and a DIY feel is what BAF has going for itself. That is its essence. Otherwise, it just becomes another audio show.
Also, people coming in from far, not just India and Europe, but from Washington, Oregon, Colorado and so on, find it easier to get in and out of SF.
As for sound, I have yet to visit a room in a hotel with good sound. Besides, the Fort Mason rooms are much larger than all but the largest hotel rooms. That in itself is an advantage.
Here's a couple of suggestions:
1. More rooms. Some could be sponsored. Maybe one floor DIY and one floor sponsored? This will help separate the DIY showings from the commercial offerings.
2. Maybe a dinner event. Just bring food and ask people to pay. I want to be there for as long as I can, especially if it's a one day event.
Also, people coming in from far, not just India and Europe, but from Washington, Oregon, Colorado and so on, find it easier to get in and out of SF.
As for sound, I have yet to visit a room in a hotel with good sound. Besides, the Fort Mason rooms are much larger than all but the largest hotel rooms. That in itself is an advantage.
Here's a couple of suggestions:
1. More rooms. Some could be sponsored. Maybe one floor DIY and one floor sponsored? This will help separate the DIY showings from the commercial offerings.
2. Maybe a dinner event. Just bring food and ask people to pay. I want to be there for as long as I can, especially if it's a one day event.
from my point of view , actually meeting ppl , exchanging some good vibes and thoughts , same as seeing and thinking what's on display , is much more important then actually hearing anything
for me - hearing something is possible only in several days span , not tightly packed in blitz-krieg visit to several rooms , while trying to have any sort of sane dialogue with 50 Greedy Boyz , all that in less then 12hrs
we are having exactly the same troubles - planning Baby DiyA BAF ( sort of ) in end of June
for me - hearing something is possible only in several days span , not tightly packed in blitz-krieg visit to several rooms , while trying to have any sort of sane dialogue with 50 Greedy Boyz , all that in less then 12hrs
we are having exactly the same troubles - planning Baby DiyA BAF ( sort of ) in end of June
....just my 2 cents:
I love Ft Mason for the Burning Amp event....open, lovely views of the Bay, outstanding outdoor space/BBQ area, large rooms and great local for out-of-towners near fishermans warf, etc.
After decades of business travel, I'd be very happy not seeing the inside of a hotel room or its convention space again.
Maybe I'm easy to please, but even if I were to nitpic, I can't find anything about the event or Ft Mason that I don't like.
Mario
I love Ft Mason for the Burning Amp event....open, lovely views of the Bay, outstanding outdoor space/BBQ area, large rooms and great local for out-of-towners near fishermans warf, etc.
After decades of business travel, I'd be very happy not seeing the inside of a hotel room or its convention space again.
Maybe I'm easy to please, but even if I were to nitpic, I can't find anything about the event or Ft Mason that I don't like.
Mario
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