"Paul is dead now"
now we will know who "know's" Beatle trivia --
since I am older than 90% of the respondents on this board, I can recall the Beatle's visit to "our fair city" -- and the hysteria of my sisters upon their arrival. As if yesterday I recall the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show -- this was a burstin' out great time in the 1960's -- and you had the Beatles and the Brit Invasion challenging the surf-wave and Motown.
i can also recall Jones Beach and hearing the Beatles on a.m. and nascent f.m. radio in New York, and whomever, wafting over the crowd - even when they were out of fashion.
so if you knew the Beatles when they were fresh, they were a an "anticipated precedent" - I am sure that those who heard Chopin/Padrewski were similarly impressed by the novelty.
now we will know who "know's" Beatle trivia --
since I am older than 90% of the respondents on this board, I can recall the Beatle's visit to "our fair city" -- and the hysteria of my sisters upon their arrival. As if yesterday I recall the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show -- this was a burstin' out great time in the 1960's -- and you had the Beatles and the Brit Invasion challenging the surf-wave and Motown.
i can also recall Jones Beach and hearing the Beatles on a.m. and nascent f.m. radio in New York, and whomever, wafting over the crowd - even when they were out of fashion.
so if you knew the Beatles when they were fresh, they were a an "anticipated precedent" - I am sure that those who heard Chopin/Padrewski were similarly impressed by the novelty.
zumbido said:
Actually, it was Meg White who said that (sorry to pick).
grimberg said:
As you say, the Beatles were more than the sum of each individual and Ringo Star was a key character in the group. He had a certain witt and girls liked him
I think the Beatles wrote some of the best songs of the last 50 years, then I listen to the Beach Boys and forget all about the Beatles (aah, those California Girls!). My point is that all music depends on the day and mood of the listener: some days the Beatles bore me, others I wonder how I'd live without them.
Prune, apparently you've never spent time with British university students.
Jack hit the key point- the context of the time. What the Beatles did, and did over and over, was to radically redefine the music around them. Albums like Sgt Pepper, Rubber Soul, Revolver, these were sounds and music that no-one conceived could BE in rock. People who weren't music listeners then have no idea of how radical all this was.
To me, the Beatles also changed a VERY fundamental way of looking at recorded music. Before the Beatles, the art-object was the performance, and a record was supposed to be a simulacrum of a concert performance. Post-Beatles, the tail wagged the dog- the art was the recording, and the concert performance was the simulacrum.
Jack hit the key point- the context of the time. What the Beatles did, and did over and over, was to radically redefine the music around them. Albums like Sgt Pepper, Rubber Soul, Revolver, these were sounds and music that no-one conceived could BE in rock. People who weren't music listeners then have no idea of how radical all this was.
To me, the Beatles also changed a VERY fundamental way of looking at recorded music. Before the Beatles, the art-object was the performance, and a record was supposed to be a simulacrum of a concert performance. Post-Beatles, the tail wagged the dog- the art was the recording, and the concert performance was the simulacrum.
What to think of the Cathy Berberian tapes?
This lady recorded some classic Beatles songs in a baroque arrangement, “The Beatles Arias” in the mid sixties.
Very funny to listen to, unfortunately the reportage is a mixture of Dutch and French.
Think of Bianca Castafiore (perhaps also only known by the Dutch and French people amongst us) in a happy mood.
/Hugo
This lady recorded some classic Beatles songs in a baroque arrangement, “The Beatles Arias” in the mid sixties.
Very funny to listen to, unfortunately the reportage is a mixture of Dutch and French.
Think of Bianca Castafiore (perhaps also only known by the Dutch and French people amongst us) in a happy mood.
/Hugo
Nelda Sisk and The Sisko Kids!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/neldasiskmusic.htm
http://www.siskokids.com/
grimberg said:
Yep, Ringo was apparently the favourite Beatle from a pin-up point of view, especially in the early days when they were a touring group. Although his songwriting is/was atrocious, he was a fantastic drummer - just listen to the drumming on 'Strawberry Fields', and much of the White Album.
None of the Beatles was a great musician.
The best you can say about any of them was that Paul had a nice voice for slow songs.
But since when do you have to be a great musician to play rock and roll?
I thought Ringo's drumming improved as the band went on. I especially liked what he did on Abbey Road.
It was pretty well understood-and some studio musicians have admitted to this-that when the band first was recorded, Ringo was so untrained that he couldn't even keep the beat. Studio pro's had to be called in to do it on early cuts.
The way Ringo got into the band was that the original drummer, Pete Best, was considered by the girls at the time the best looking of the bunch, and his popularity started challenging the leadership role of the Paul/John partnership. They let Best go. Ringo was an available hanger-on in the small Liverpool rock scene, and that was that.
I saw an interview with George Martin, their original producer, and he admitted that he was thinking of signing the Beatles earlier than he did, since their popularity was beginning to burgeon. He felt he couldn't, though, until they were able to play their instruments better.
So the Beatles went from being unable to play their instruments on an even remotely competent level, to being the number one popular band in the world in a matter of months.
I mean, I am sure they improved, but how much better could they have gotten in such a short time?
They got good enough to play what they wanted to play, and that is all they needed to do. Which is probably just as true in rock now as it was then.
The best you can say about any of them was that Paul had a nice voice for slow songs.
But since when do you have to be a great musician to play rock and roll?
I thought Ringo's drumming improved as the band went on. I especially liked what he did on Abbey Road.
It was pretty well understood-and some studio musicians have admitted to this-that when the band first was recorded, Ringo was so untrained that he couldn't even keep the beat. Studio pro's had to be called in to do it on early cuts.
The way Ringo got into the band was that the original drummer, Pete Best, was considered by the girls at the time the best looking of the bunch, and his popularity started challenging the leadership role of the Paul/John partnership. They let Best go. Ringo was an available hanger-on in the small Liverpool rock scene, and that was that.
I saw an interview with George Martin, their original producer, and he admitted that he was thinking of signing the Beatles earlier than he did, since their popularity was beginning to burgeon. He felt he couldn't, though, until they were able to play their instruments better.
So the Beatles went from being unable to play their instruments on an even remotely competent level, to being the number one popular band in the world in a matter of months.
I mean, I am sure they improved, but how much better could they have gotten in such a short time?
They got good enough to play what they wanted to play, and that is all they needed to do. Which is probably just as true in rock now as it was then.
heresy...
"None of the Beatles was a great musician"
I can't agree with that, Paul was obviously talented, and improved with time. I'm sure George Martin taught him a lot...all those fancy chords...
and they could all sing - harmonies -,
had great melodies, and a unique rhythm for the time.
Sure, a lot of the songs are trite R&B, but there are many more gems than most musicians ever acheive in their opus.
Of course this begs the question whether a musician need be technically acomplished to be 'great', but i won't go there...
Pete McK
"None of the Beatles was a great musician"
I can't agree with that, Paul was obviously talented, and improved with time. I'm sure George Martin taught him a lot...all those fancy chords...
and they could all sing - harmonies -,
had great melodies, and a unique rhythm for the time.
Sure, a lot of the songs are trite R&B, but there are many more gems than most musicians ever acheive in their opus.
Of course this begs the question whether a musician need be technically acomplished to be 'great', but i won't go there...
Pete McK
"None of the Beatles was a great musician."
You, obviously, are exceedingly unfamiliar with the Beatles.
Sir Paul is probably the most influential bassist in the past 40 years.
Compositionally, Lennon/McCartney are at the top in the songwriting world. Would you like a music theory & composition lesson on the Beatles? Every Beatles Song Analyzed.
Studio technology was pushed because of the Beatles. The list of what was invented and/or developed is staggering (DI box, flanger, ADT, loops, sampling, etc.).
The Beatles were not just a "rock 'n roll" band. Ever listen to "The Inner Light", "Yesterday", "Penny Lane", "Revolution 9"?
By the way, where did you get this little story: "It was pretty well understood-and some studio musicians have admitted to this-that when the band first was recorded, Ringo was so untrained that he couldn't even keep the beat. Studio pro's had to be called in to do it on early cuts."
Ringo did not (exclusively) play on only two 'early cuts', as you suggest. There were two versions of "Love Me Do" recorded, one with Ringo, the other with Andy White - the version with Ringo was released as the single. The 'B' side, "P. S. I Love You" has Andy White on drums and Ringo on maracas.
That's the factual version of your little unfounded anecdote. Please do your homework.
There are some songs recorded by the Beatles that have Paul on drums (i.e., Dear Prudence, Ballad of John & Yoko).
And don't fall for the Bernard Purdie claims. The ONLY possible explanation is that Purdie may have overdubbed drums on EARLY Beatles recordings (i.e., My Bonnie) that had Pete Best on drums and Stu Sutcliffe on bass. These were recorded in Germany in 1961 and marketed during Beatlemania - not on the Capitol/EMI label.
Also, George Martin was not just the Beatles original producer, he was their only producer. By the way, they helped develop several other 'big-time' producers that were 'trained' as engineers during the early days (Geoff Emerick, Norman Smith, Alan Parsons, Chris Thomas, Glynn Johns)
I could go on and on.
You, obviously, are exceedingly unfamiliar with the Beatles.
Sir Paul is probably the most influential bassist in the past 40 years.
Compositionally, Lennon/McCartney are at the top in the songwriting world. Would you like a music theory & composition lesson on the Beatles? Every Beatles Song Analyzed.
Studio technology was pushed because of the Beatles. The list of what was invented and/or developed is staggering (DI box, flanger, ADT, loops, sampling, etc.).
The Beatles were not just a "rock 'n roll" band. Ever listen to "The Inner Light", "Yesterday", "Penny Lane", "Revolution 9"?
By the way, where did you get this little story: "It was pretty well understood-and some studio musicians have admitted to this-that when the band first was recorded, Ringo was so untrained that he couldn't even keep the beat. Studio pro's had to be called in to do it on early cuts."
Ringo did not (exclusively) play on only two 'early cuts', as you suggest. There were two versions of "Love Me Do" recorded, one with Ringo, the other with Andy White - the version with Ringo was released as the single. The 'B' side, "P. S. I Love You" has Andy White on drums and Ringo on maracas.
That's the factual version of your little unfounded anecdote. Please do your homework.
There are some songs recorded by the Beatles that have Paul on drums (i.e., Dear Prudence, Ballad of John & Yoko).
And don't fall for the Bernard Purdie claims. The ONLY possible explanation is that Purdie may have overdubbed drums on EARLY Beatles recordings (i.e., My Bonnie) that had Pete Best on drums and Stu Sutcliffe on bass. These were recorded in Germany in 1961 and marketed during Beatlemania - not on the Capitol/EMI label.
Also, George Martin was not just the Beatles original producer, he was their only producer. By the way, they helped develop several other 'big-time' producers that were 'trained' as engineers during the early days (Geoff Emerick, Norman Smith, Alan Parsons, Chris Thomas, Glynn Johns)
I could go on and on.
A quibble: George Martin was not their only producer. Get out your copy of Let It Be.
Did Paul play the guitar on Blackbird? That was some really nice work, whoever did it. And indeed, the bass on Hey Bulldog is some of the best rock bass I've ever heard, so I don't accept the thesis that Paul couldn't play well.
Did Paul play the guitar on Blackbird? That was some really nice work, whoever did it. And indeed, the bass on Hey Bulldog is some of the best rock bass I've ever heard, so I don't accept the thesis that Paul couldn't play well.
Alas, i grew up with the Beatles music.
My elder sisters even made me wear Lennon spectacles and Roy Rogers jeans.
Every day my hair was itching because it was so F.... long.
I'm still paying my shrink to get lyrics like "a hard days night" and "Michelle" out of my head.
Years and years i was lying in bed when my sisters were having another school party in our back garden shack, brainwashing my skull with Beatlemania.
What can i say ? The beatles suck but i love it !
My elder sisters even made me wear Lennon spectacles and Roy Rogers jeans.
Every day my hair was itching because it was so F.... long.
I'm still paying my shrink to get lyrics like "a hard days night" and "Michelle" out of my head.
Years and years i was lying in bed when my sisters were having another school party in our back garden shack, brainwashing my skull with Beatlemania.
What can i say ? The beatles suck but i love it !
Attachments
Here's how 'Let It Be' happened.
George Martin is the producer. The engineer is Glynn Johns.
The project occurred during January-February 1969.
It was aborted. Then handed to Glynn Johns to make something of it. There are literally 100s of hours of audio.
The Beatles don't care for this version.
Proceed to record 'Abbey Road'. Finish 'Abbey Road' September 1969. The last recording session was attended by all four Beaatles. That was it. The end.
Dissagreements over who should be the manager are at a fever-pitch. The Beatles are divided into to groups: Lennon, Harrison, Starr v. McCaartney.
Lennon decides to give 'Let It Be' to Phil Spector.
All Spector does is add orchestration to several songs, do some editing from different takes, add the 'talking' bits between songs.
There was one overdub done by Ringo in January of 1970.
What Spector did does not qualify as a producer. However he was creditied as such.
The release of "Let It Be, Naked..." is what Martin and Johns did. Of course 'Pro Tooled' to death.
Paul is the guitarist on 'Blackbird' and the bassist on 'Hey Bulldog'
The four songs: 'Hey Bulldog', 'The Inner Light', 'Across the Universe' and 'Lady Madonna' were all recorded in the space of five days.
Doubters of TOTAL musical ability (composition, diversity of instruments - sitars to tambourine to piano, brush technique to saxophone to kazoo) can take a heavy lesson from these.
George Martin is the producer. The engineer is Glynn Johns.
The project occurred during January-February 1969.
It was aborted. Then handed to Glynn Johns to make something of it. There are literally 100s of hours of audio.
The Beatles don't care for this version.
Proceed to record 'Abbey Road'. Finish 'Abbey Road' September 1969. The last recording session was attended by all four Beaatles. That was it. The end.
Dissagreements over who should be the manager are at a fever-pitch. The Beatles are divided into to groups: Lennon, Harrison, Starr v. McCaartney.
Lennon decides to give 'Let It Be' to Phil Spector.
All Spector does is add orchestration to several songs, do some editing from different takes, add the 'talking' bits between songs.
There was one overdub done by Ringo in January of 1970.
What Spector did does not qualify as a producer. However he was creditied as such.
The release of "Let It Be, Naked..." is what Martin and Johns did. Of course 'Pro Tooled' to death.
Paul is the guitarist on 'Blackbird' and the bassist on 'Hey Bulldog'
The four songs: 'Hey Bulldog', 'The Inner Light', 'Across the Universe' and 'Lady Madonna' were all recorded in the space of five days.
Doubters of TOTAL musical ability (composition, diversity of instruments - sitars to tambourine to piano, brush technique to saxophone to kazoo) can take a heavy lesson from these.
That should explain why "Abbey Road" and in particular the atrocious "Let It Be" are the worst albums the Beatles ever did. (The white album is the only one I think can be considered great.)
While the Beatles along with the Beach Boys are credited with improving studio technology and recording, they also introduced over-produced into rock music. (Actually, Phil Spector had done the latter already.) The abovementioned albums are perfect examples of that. Of course, they are not nearly as bad as what was to come. Like ELP and the other kitsch bands of the 1970s. At least Lennon had the brains to leave the sinking ship. And perhaps not surprising, he was the only one that did anything worth having after the Beatles years.
While the Beatles along with the Beach Boys are credited with improving studio technology and recording, they also introduced over-produced into rock music. (Actually, Phil Spector had done the latter already.) The abovementioned albums are perfect examples of that. Of course, they are not nearly as bad as what was to come. Like ELP and the other kitsch bands of the 1970s. At least Lennon had the brains to leave the sinking ship. And perhaps not surprising, he was the only one that did anything worth having after the Beatles years.
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