Well i know it isn't true!
I think the mainboard manufacturers are a bit distracted by all the extras they try to build in.
But when a disk gets slow it's time to check it!
I agree with the writings of eva.
But when using a dedicated music disk it is easy to copy and maintain at a fairly lowcost. Even is you have to replace it every 5 years.
But on the other hand after five years your collecting has grown so you tend to buy a bigger disk any way.
The space that I need for my usage is growing so fast that i'm glad to remove an old (also reed small) disk.
The old crappy disks go into my usbdrives to do some transporting.
Also I had a maxtor wich was behaving very bad.
After the use of some tools, it started to behave correct again.
I don't trust it! But it very usefull as temporary disk for Emule and other 'garbage' purposes.
I think the mainboard manufacturers are a bit distracted by all the extras they try to build in.
But when a disk gets slow it's time to check it!
I agree with the writings of eva.
But when using a dedicated music disk it is easy to copy and maintain at a fairly lowcost. Even is you have to replace it every 5 years.
But on the other hand after five years your collecting has grown so you tend to buy a bigger disk any way.
The space that I need for my usage is growing so fast that i'm glad to remove an old (also reed small) disk.
The old crappy disks go into my usbdrives to do some transporting.
Also I had a maxtor wich was behaving very bad.
After the use of some tools, it started to behave correct again.
I don't trust it! But it very usefull as temporary disk for Emule and other 'garbage' purposes.
Reading all this confirms that we have a serious problem to save our data / music for future generations. Tape was never designed to last very long, cd’s deteriorate and hard disk are manufactured so badly that only vinyl seems the way to go.
As for stevers original claim: My ears are not good enough to confirm his findings but a recording made on my A77 seems to sound in a more appealing way than the original cd or radio broadcast.
Much of the original signal must have been lost but the machine seems to add some very pleasing ‘distortion’ if I may use the word. Hard to describe and the charm of the big spindles turning while listening adds to the fun.
P.S. Limousin? Watch the cows...I might come over one day in April.
/Hugo
As for stevers original claim: My ears are not good enough to confirm his findings but a recording made on my A77 seems to sound in a more appealing way than the original cd or radio broadcast.
Much of the original signal must have been lost but the machine seems to add some very pleasing ‘distortion’ if I may use the word. Hard to describe and the charm of the big spindles turning while listening adds to the fun.
P.S. Limousin? Watch the cows...I might come over one day in April.
/Hugo
I'm using CD-Rs from those two sources and they supposed to last at least 300 years
http://www.mam-a.com/products/gold/archive.html
http://www.mofi.com/cdr.htm
http://www.mam-a.com/products/gold/archive.html
http://www.mofi.com/cdr.htm
Nearly all BIOSes just detect S.M.A.R.T. but don't go any further. Same for Windows 2000 and Windows XP, they don't have any useful S.M.A.R.T. support built in, and will not warn you when the relocated sector count is going high. On the other hand, I've seen S.M.A.R.T. daemons for Linux that do periodical checking and warn you if required, but this is another story.
Furthermore, I had to get a third-party DOS program (called SpinRite and priced $400) to be able to know how much sectors are relocated in my drives and to check error counts (S.M.A.R.T. drives keep counters of several kinds of errors). My old 10Gb Seagate drive has almost 10.000.000 corrected ECC errors and 5.000.000 seek errors logged in its 5 years or so of use (still working fine), but shockingly it has not a single relocated sector, despite it allows up to 64.
This kind of software must come with the own drives, but it doesn't.
Furthermore, I had to get a third-party DOS program (called SpinRite and priced $400) to be able to know how much sectors are relocated in my drives and to check error counts (S.M.A.R.T. drives keep counters of several kinds of errors). My old 10Gb Seagate drive has almost 10.000.000 corrected ECC errors and 5.000.000 seek errors logged in its 5 years or so of use (still working fine), but shockingly it has not a single relocated sector, despite it allows up to 64.
This kind of software must come with the own drives, but it doesn't.
After all my 1.44mb floppies failed over 5 yrs or so I began to doubt
all the wunderkind claims made by the digital industry for their products! Ive kept my record collection Its the only medium I feel
in my gut will last forever (relatively that is).Ive also got an Akai 4000
DS and a host of 1/4" in the loft to play with I class phillips cassettes
as rubbish for their inherant ability to self destruct regardless of the
transport!
all the wunderkind claims made by the digital industry for their products! Ive kept my record collection Its the only medium I feel
in my gut will last forever (relatively that is).Ive also got an Akai 4000
DS and a host of 1/4" in the loft to play with I class phillips cassettes
as rubbish for their inherant ability to self destruct regardless of the
transport!
which describes analogue very precisely as well.
Don't you see - there is really no difference how you encode information - and encoded it is, since sound has to be transformed into electrical energy to be stored.
True even in amplified live venues.
I think you suffer from some kind of analogue tunnelvision. Don't get me wrong - I like my lp's, but know their limitations, and also am very familiar with the revoxes/brauns/tascams, had'em all myself - and the hiss magnetic recordings can produce...
Don't get the point wrong:
The increasing lack of reliability observed in all the modern digital mass storage media is not due to the fact of being digital, but due to the fact that the market continuously demands for higher storage capacities in the same space and at a lower price. This is obviously unattainable without compromising reliability (which is very closely related to data density).
Vinyl and big tape reels would have been a very different story if the marked had demanded for doube the music or data capacity per device in the same size each two years while reducing the cost of the storage devices and equipment at the same time.
I don't want a 500Gb hard drive that will last no longer than 5 years, I just want a 5Gb reliable one to store all my work and tools in a safe place.
The increasing lack of reliability observed in all the modern digital mass storage media is not due to the fact of being digital, but due to the fact that the market continuously demands for higher storage capacities in the same space and at a lower price. This is obviously unattainable without compromising reliability (which is very closely related to data density).
Vinyl and big tape reels would have been a very different story if the marked had demanded for doube the music or data capacity per device in the same size each two years while reducing the cost of the storage devices and equipment at the same time.
I don't want a 500Gb hard drive that will last no longer than 5 years, I just want a 5Gb reliable one to store all my work and tools in a safe place.
I understand the statement.
And I really regret the downfall of quality!
It's all arround and it seems unstopable!
But 5gig?
I need 9gig for my fotos (twice to be save)
½GB on written software.
And wat to think of all the movies, series and mp3s that i have?
I'm not willing to burn them on cd/dvd cause it will cost me to much time and money!
Regards Simon
And I really regret the downfall of quality!
It's all arround and it seems unstopable!
But 5gig?
I need 9gig for my fotos (twice to be save)
½GB on written software.
And wat to think of all the movies, series and mp3s that i have?
I'm not willing to burn them on cd/dvd cause it will cost me to much time and money!
Regards Simon
Yes but isnt the real point that even if the digital lasts your lifetime ,
which from a selfish point of view is probably fine ,it might not last
forever and since no one has purported a failure mode for vinyl .apart
from mechanical destruction--- I think it gets my vote plus theres all the fun of messing with TT,s etc ha ha and funnily enough although I
dont go along with all the VOODOO ultra fi crap thats expounded on these forums --- I do like the sound of vinyl ! even through an ADC
XLM ,home made turntable ,and Leak 2000 . thats blown it!
which from a selfish point of view is probably fine ,it might not last
forever and since no one has purported a failure mode for vinyl .apart
from mechanical destruction--- I think it gets my vote plus theres all the fun of messing with TT,s etc ha ha and funnily enough although I
dont go along with all the VOODOO ultra fi crap thats expounded on these forums --- I do like the sound of vinyl ! even through an ADC
XLM ,home made turntable ,and Leak 2000 . thats blown it!
Is that because of the climate there? my Lp,s have sat on the shelf
for 10 yrs and are as good as when I bought them - well almost!
Turntables can be made from bits of discarded mechanisms I dont think I.d attempt a hard disk, youve probably got to hold onto any
MMC or MCC's though, they'd be tricky to fabricate
for 10 yrs and are as good as when I bought them - well almost!
Turntables can be made from bits of discarded mechanisms I dont think I.d attempt a hard disk, youve probably got to hold onto any
MMC or MCC's though, they'd be tricky to fabricate
There is no such thing as forever. I would certainly not be placing huge trust in the mid to long term stability of the cocktail of vinyl esters, carbon black, long chain additives that makes up an LP. Any component could find itself at its use by date and a catastrophic failure occur. It could be as simple as an LP that looks fine simply being turned into fine dust each time it is played.
As to the CD issue. About the only thing for it is for someone to use the S/PDIF input on a sound card to record their apparently degrading CD. Then do a bit-wise comparison with another version of the same.
There is a possibility that there is a steady stream of uncorrectable errors - at such a rate that simple interpolation is actually enough to cause noticeable change in the sound, but not enough to cause the player to mute. This is a bit of a stretch - that such a situation would occur and yet there be no muting at all through the CD is walking so fine a line that it is difficult to give it credence. But without doing the test no one knows.
As to the CD issue. About the only thing for it is for someone to use the S/PDIF input on a sound card to record their apparently degrading CD. Then do a bit-wise comparison with another version of the same.
There is a possibility that there is a steady stream of uncorrectable errors - at such a rate that simple interpolation is actually enough to cause noticeable change in the sound, but not enough to cause the player to mute. This is a bit of a stretch - that such a situation would occur and yet there be no muting at all through the CD is walking so fine a line that it is difficult to give it credence. But without doing the test no one knows.
This thread started off on the subject of how awful CDs sound compared to reel to reel tape, then morphed into some stuff about the long-term viability of CDs.
What about the life of tape? We know that if it isn't stored under ideal conditions it deteriorates very quickly, especially compared to a CD. If you play the tape, each pass over the heads and pinch rollers peels off some of the oxide. If ever there was a recipe for disaster, analog tape is it!
I think audio recording took a turn for the worse when they went from constant linear velocity cylinders to variable velocity discs, around 1908. And don't get me started on the switch from sterate wax to that hideous blue amberol! The CD went back to constant linear velocity, but it's got all that digital stuff that gets in the way of the music. Acoustic input and output are the only acceptable methods.
Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to my Sir Harry Lauder collection...
I_F
What about the life of tape? We know that if it isn't stored under ideal conditions it deteriorates very quickly, especially compared to a CD. If you play the tape, each pass over the heads and pinch rollers peels off some of the oxide. If ever there was a recipe for disaster, analog tape is it!
I think audio recording took a turn for the worse when they went from constant linear velocity cylinders to variable velocity discs, around 1908. And don't get me started on the switch from sterate wax to that hideous blue amberol! The CD went back to constant linear velocity, but it's got all that digital stuff that gets in the way of the music. Acoustic input and output are the only acceptable methods.
Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to my Sir Harry Lauder collection...
I_F
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