Testing or Listening? :|: Split from Blowtorch II

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So which is the better amplifier, the one that sounds better to you because its distortion masks other flaws in the sound system or the one that reveals them because its undistorted output accurately reproduces the input waveform?

Free from distortion is necessary requirement by me, but it's not enough. Different amplifiers with very similar (and very low) distortion measurement sound different to a high degree.
 
I used "pleasing" purposely because it's really impossible to remember the sonics of an event - audio memory & all that. Most people go with what they find more "pleasing" to them - some like the "presence" of the music, some like the "air" around the instruments, some like the 3D soundstage, some like "euphonic", etc. It begins to boil down to taste & taste changes. As Leonard Cohen states "I don't trust my inner feelings, inner feelings come & go"

Yes and no.
The major thing I look for in a reproduction system is the degree of proximity to live music - as far my memory serves me. Yet, this is me. Others may look for different things.

BTW, unlike that verse by Leonard Cohen, I do trust my inner feelings.
 
All perceived reality is but a construction of the mind.

Some people like Buddha and Shankara say that Enlightenment (according to their terminology of Enlightenment) is a direct perception of reality-in-itself. In that direct perception of reality, previous perceptions are revealed as illusions created by individuals' minds.
However this is outside the realm of present day science and probably off topic.
Yet, some present physicists use terminology akin to Buddhism and Yoga.
Exactly, to dismiss philosophy, as navel gazing, & science as the only way to "knowledge" is a pretty blinkered view of knowledge but not unusual to those religious believers in science/engineering/measurements as "the way".
 
Right...but the word illusion keeps creeping in and by definition illusions are misperceptions, not proper perceptions.

All perceptions are illusion (save, maybe, Enlightenment according to people like Buddha and Shankara).

Probably you meant to differentiate between perceptions of actual events and other illusions, disguised as perceptions. Anyhow, both are created in the mind.
 
Yes and no.
The major thing I look for in a reproduction system is the degree of proximity to live music - as far my memory serves me. Yet, this is me. Others may look for different things.
Yes, but you seem to be aware that you are believing in an illusion of what you heard!

BTW, unlike that verse by Leonard Cohen, I do trust my inner feelings.
Ah, you haven't reached the Buddha-mind as Leonard has :D
 
It is an illusion when it comes to audio playback & that is what we are talking about. In the same way as photographs are illusions of a scene from the real world, etc.

Actually looking at a scenery creates a model, or illusion, in our minds. Hence, actual looking is an illusion of reality. A photograph is a representation of visual reality. The model created at our minds at the time of actual looking at actual reality is also representation of the visual reality.

Sometimes a photograph catches what the eye misses (like high speed photography of water drops).
So, which is more real? When one is more real and when the other?

In most daily life situations our sight can be trusted. It should be trusted. Yet, at times, our vision gives us false information. Thus, it seems that a measure of common sense would better be taken. Our vision shouldn't be discarded altogether, yet, it shouldn't be trusted completely, always.
 
Free from distortion is necessary requirement by me, but it's not enough. Different amplifiers with very similar (and very low) distortion measurement sound different to a high degree.

It seems to me a lot of people buy tube amplifiers with rolled off high ends and low damping factors to disguise the piercing shrillness and thin bass of the awful speakers they also bought. That's their idea of a good amplifier, a bandage on a cancer.
 
Yes, but you seem to be aware that you are believing in an illusion of what you heard!

Both listening to live music and to reproduced music are illusions.
Yet, the first serves as reference (for me) for the second.

Ah, you haven't reached the Buddha-mind as Leonard has :D

According to my view, this is something one should never testify about oneself.
However you may, if you want, browse my website: The Third Circle - an opening to all-that-is, up to infinity .
 
It seems to me a lot of people buy tube amplifiers with rolled off high ends and low damping factors to disguise the piercing shrillness and thin bass of the awful speakers they also bought. That's their idea of a good amplifier, a bandage on a cancer.

I don't know about "a lot of people". As for myself, it's definitely not so.

My speakers are excellent (and cost more than I could actually afford).
 
Right...but the word illusion keeps creeping in and by definition illusions are misperceptions, not proper perceptions.

I think your definition of 'illusion' isn't the one that's used by philosophers and scientists of perception. In their definition you most certainly can get run over and killed by an illusion. So saying 'all perception is an illusion' doesn't use the word in the same way as the phrase 'optical illusion'. Proper perception is an illusion in the sense that its a construct - its created in our minds with sensory input as starting material.

If you're interested in some science of illusion you could do worse than read 'Visual Intelligence' by Donald Hoffman.
 
Free from distortion is necessary requirement by me, but it's not enough. Different amplifiers with very similar (and very low) distortion measurement sound different to a high degree.

When you haven't got a working definition of an ideal amplifier (or preamplifier) to compare a real one to....anything goes. And engineering goes too.....right out the window. Hello tinkering.

After the tube amplfier is bought and the speakers still sound thin and shrill, that's when they go shopping for magic wires....with high resistance and high series inductance or shunt capacitance. After that it's magic stones, intelligent ICs, pet rocks, mood rings, or whatever else comes along. That's why they call it a cult.
 
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